Isn’t it amazing that, within only one week of Tiger Woods crashing his Escalade, the press found every woman with whom Tiger has had an affair during the last few years? And, they even uncovered photos, text messages, recorded phone calls, etc.!
Furthermore, they not only know the cause of the family fight, but they even know it was a wedge from his golf bag that his wife used to break out the windows in the Escalade. Not only that, they know which wedge! And, each & every day, they continue to provide America with updates on Tiger’s sex rehab stay, his divorce, as well as the dates & tournaments in which he will play.
Now, Barack Hussein Obama has been in office for almost two years, this very same press:
cannot find any of his childhood friends or neighbors;
or find any of Obama’s high school or college classmates;
or locate any of his college papers or grades;
or determine how he paid for both a Columbia & a Harvard education;
or discover which country issued his visa to travel toPakistan in the 1980’s;
or even find Michelle Obama’s Princeton thesis on racism.
They just can’t seem to uncover any of this.
Yet, the public still trusts that same press to give them the whole truth!
Simply amazing, isn’t it?
I don’t remember the press looking into any such issues with Bush. Why is any of this relevant? Unless, of course, you are trying to paint him as some kind of illegitimate Manchurian candidate. Hey, I saw on the National Enquirer the other day the headline: “Obama IS a Muslim!” Good to see that some journalists still have their integrity.
Funny Chris…really, that was funny.
It’s funny in a sad, pathetic way.
Press ethics is on par with military intelligence.
Every president comes with a certain amount of baggage and every president at some point finds himself the target of speculation and doubt. One of the items in Obamas luggage is his heritage.
There are some who believe that Muslim heritage is passed through the father to the children. (In the Jewish tradition heritage is passed through the mother.) It doesn’t help his credibility on this issue that a lot of his records, including his college records in the US, are kept under wraps. It also doesnt help that several people have made references to his Muslim faith and early training in Muslim schools in Indonesia. And theres more in Obamas own communication that complicates the picture as Daniel Pipes noted prior to the election:
http://www.danielpipes.org/5286/was-barack-obama-a-muslim
An article in the New Republic in March of 2007 reported that Jeremiah Wright was a former Muslim:
Add to this Rev Wrights association with Louis Ferrakhan and his posturing against Israel and our allies in favor of Muslim countries and you have one great big question mark.
Is the reporting all that irresponsible or unethical? I havent and probably wouldnt read the article but even so, I’m not certain we can say this is sensational reporting especially considering the serious issues facing this president. Daniel Pipes made the point at the time that if he was a “former” Muslim he might be in more danger of assassination.
Obama has created some of the speculation by being somewhat vague or less forthcoming than he could be. It makes him look like he has something to hide.
The guy is a walking hole.
So now the problem isn’t that Obama practices Islam, it’s that his father was a Muslim, therefore he is one by default, regardless of whether or not he agrees with it’s tenants.
And this somehow makes him illegitimate as a president.
Uh-huh.
Chris: “So now the problem isn’t that Obama practices Islam, it’s that his father was a Muslim, therefore he is one by default, regardless of whether or not he agrees with it’s tenants. ** And this somehow makes him illegitimate as a president.”
I posted the article by this ME scholar as a point of interest. I like information…you may have noticed. I didn’t use the word illegitimate.
What I said was that the questions and critisms he faces are associated with his muddy record and heritage. His heritage is a big part of the baggage that followed him to the office. I also said he has added to the confusion and doubt by not always being consistant or forthcoming which makes him somewhat responsible.
The point is the “great big question mark” and the implications of that. As I said, in 2007 “Daniel Pipes made the point at the time that if he was a “former” Muslim he might be in more danger of assassination.”
I’m interested in information, discovery, and discussion. How about you?
“I didn’t use the word illegitimate.”
You didn’t have to; your fellow right-wingers do it for you all the time. You’re too much of a lady to come right out with the most extreme right-wing talking points, but you allude to them and lend them legitimacy. You did the same with your tacit approval of Toby’s violent fantasy of mosque-burning, and Jack just did the same when he suggested that an obvious racist and sexist stock up on weapons to defend himself from illegal immigrants. You egg on the extremists and then play dumb whenever there are consequences. And you have a veil of plausible deniability guarding you from taking responsibility for them.
This is why 20% of Americans and a majority of Republicans think Obama is a Muslim. It has nothing to do with the facts and everything to do with the lies and innuendo spread by your side. You’re helping to create a very uninformed and very suspicious public, one that relies more on dogwhistles and propoganda talking points than actual evidence. I can’t imagine what good you think this will do.
Chris: “You didn’t have to; your fellow right-wingers do it for you all the time.”
OK, Chris, from now on I will be sure to evaluate and judge every word you use, and some you don’t use, by the most extreme elements on your side…that would be fair, right? I mean isn’t that the game?
“You egg on the extremists and then play dumb whenever there are consequences.”
If this is what the “consequences” are I’m not worried. Being the target of a PC cop is the least of my worries.
“And you have a veil of plausible deniability guarding you from taking responsibility for them.”
I see, not only are you a PC cop runningaround and telling everyone the “proper” way to express ones feelings, ideas, and thoughts, now you’re also the ultimate judge of everyones character to boot. Well I guess you’re one tough little PC judge. Whoopie for you!
“This is why 20% of Americans and a majority of Republicans think Obama is a Muslim.”
Is it now? Well, well, well. Conservatives you hold to an impossibly high standard that includes every syllable, period and nuance allowing for zero misunderstanding, error or difference in personality, background, or opinion but the man in the White House is covered NO MATTER WHAT! He is not responsible in any way. Not for keeping his records hidden, not for the people he has associated with and pretended to barely know, not for the times he or his wife expressed his Muslim roots, not for the fact that he didn’t want his middle name used during the election…nothing he has added to the uncertainty and doubt! You should go into main stream (old) journalism, you’d walk the line perfectly! They didn’t bother to vet this president properly either.
“It has nothing to do with the facts and everything to do with the lies and innuendo spread by your side.”
I beg your pardon but you are full of that stuff we don’t say in public! Daniel Pipes, the man that I quoted in my comment is a highly respected scholar who specializes in ME studies. To refresh your mind, his piece begins:
Both George Bush and Dick Cheney had as part of their baggage, that they had worked in the oil industry. People to this day insist that oil was the only motivation for going into Iraq and that unethical deal making was part of the mix. There are those who held, and continue to hold, a great deal of animus, if not downright hatred toward both of them. This is part of the job, as GWB used to say.
“You’re helping to create a very uninformed and very suspicious public, one that relies more on dogwhistles and propoganda talking points than actual evidence.”
By asking questions, providing information and opening the debate to anyone who keeps it reasonably clean? Are you suggesting we play dumb? Sensor speech? Alter history? Or maybe just shut up? (Read “1984” or “Brave New World” or “Animal Farm” and then get back to me)
“I can’t imagine what good you think this will do.”
Well I guess that’s why we have you isn’t it? To make sure that we’re all in our places with sunshiney faces and totally PC. To make sure we never look at anything uncomfortable or tough. That we never ask any hard questions or speculate about certain (unmentionable) possibilities. Our job, as you see it, is to make this president’s term in office as nice and pleasant as possible.
Chris, you’re becoming a characature…let it rest.
Instead, take the challenge and see what you can dig up from the press on any of these:
1. Childhood friends or neighbors
2. Obama’s high school or college classmates
3. His college papers or grades
4. How he paid for both a Columbia & a Harvard education
5. Which country issued his visa to travel to Pakistan in the 1980’s
6. Michelle Obama’s Princeton thesis on racism.
As Jack pointed out these nagging questions are as much an indictment of the failures of our press as they are of the muddiness in Obama’s background. These things, and so much more, should have been investigated way back in 2006 after his big convention speech when the left went nuts about his possibly being presidential material. They didn’t do the job then, nor through the election and so questions remain unanswered and speculation abounds.
By the way. The New Republic is a left wing publication. Back in 2007 they were asking questions and making observations (repeated):
This suggests that Obama made decision about belonging to that church for political reasons. His choice was a matter of gaining personal power and position. this too adds to the speculation. It doesn’t help him that the press, when Rev Wrights anti-American rants came out, immediately attacked those who raised questions because of it. They, like you, apparently, expect everyone to just shut up like good little PC kids.
Never gonna happen…not from our side…and not from your side either by the way. Your side has no trouble creating groups to hate and vilify pretending all along that you are so freakin nice. Bah!
Tina: “OK, Chris, from now on I will be sure to evaluate and judge every word you use, and some you don’t use, by the most extreme elements on your side…that would be fair, right? I mean isn’t that the game?”
Ah, so you admit that those who say the president is illegitimate are “extreme elements?” Interesting.
It’s fair, Tina, because you are engaging in the very same tactics they do, and for the same purposes.
“If this is what the “consequences” are I’m not worried. Being the target of a PC cop is the least of my worries.”
The consequences are increased hatred and violence toward Muslims. Anyone with half a brain can see that the implication intended when someone says “Obama is a Muslim” is “and Muslims are bad.”
“Is it now? Well, well, well. Conservatives you hold to an impossibly high standard that includes every syllable, period and nuance allowing for zero misunderstanding, error or difference in personality, background, or opinion but the man in the White House is covered NO MATTER WHAT! He is not responsible in any way.”
Not for the public believing he is a Muslim, no. He has been very clear on this issue and those who think otherwise are reaching.
“Not for keeping his records hidden, not for the people he has associated with and pretended to barely know, not for the times he or his wife expressed his Muslim roots, not for the fact that he didn’t want his middle name used during the election…nothing he has added to the uncertainty and doubt! ”
All of these were highly exaggerated by conservative “journalists.”
“By asking questions, providing information and opening the debate to anyone who keeps it reasonably clean? Are you suggesting we play dumb? Sensor speech? Alter history?”
I’m suggesting that when ridiculous things like the birther conspiracy are disproven, you stop treating them like legitimate issues.
“Or maybe just shut up? (Read “1984” or “Brave New World” or “Animal Farm” and then get back to me)”
I have read them, Tina, unlike most conservative journalists who claim to. 😉
“Well I guess that’s why we have you isn’t it? To make sure that we’re all in our places with sunshiney faces and totally PC. To make sure we never look at anything uncomfortable or tough.”
There’s nothing uncomfortable or tough about the question “Is Obama a Muslim?” It’s just silly and stupid.
“That we never ask any hard questions or speculate about certain (unmentionable) possibilities. Our job, as you see it, is to make this president’s term in office as nice and pleasant as possible.”
No, our job is to speak truth to power. Your side is speaking nonsense.
“Chris, you’re becoming a characature…let it rest.
Instead, take the challenge and see what you can dig up from the press on any of these:
1. Childhood friends or neighbors
2. Obama’s high school or college classmates
3. His college papers or grades
4. How he paid for both a Columbia & a Harvard education
5. Which country issued his visa to travel to Pakistan in the 1980’s
6. Michelle Obama’s Princeton thesis on racism.”
Once again, none of these issues are in any way relevant, especially that last one. I don’t remember anyone asking to see Laura Bush’s college thesis.
“As Jack pointed out these nagging questions are as much an indictment of the failures of our press as they are of the muddiness in Obama’s background.”
No, they’re an indictment of conservative’s desperation to find anything–anything at all–that might make Obama look bad.
“These things, and so much more, should have been investigated way back in 2006”
Why? Why should his grades be investigated? Why should a passport issue be investigated when Pakistan was not, in fact, on the no-fly list when Obama traveled there, as certain conservatives have lied?
Chris: “Ah, so you admit that those who say the president is illegitimate are ‘extreme elements?'”
Sure, but not all of them. Some are serious scholars asking legitimate questions for serious reasons. Also the propensity of the left to take the extremist and make him the face of conservatism is BS but it doesn’t stop you.
“It’s fair, Tina, because you are engaging in the very same tactics they do, and for the same purposes.”
It’s true I am using some of the same tactics to fight politically. One difference is that I do my best to have evidence to back me up. The hard core game players on the left over the course of my years had no such standard.
“The consequences are increased hatred and violence toward Muslims.”
There you go again…being afraid to live in a free country! And being unwilling to hold individuals accountable for their actions.
“Anyone with half a brain can see that the implication intended when someone says ‘Obama is a Muslim’ is ‘and Muslims are bad.'”
Only if you are wearing your offical PC decoder ring.
” He has been very clear on this issue”
He has made clear statements. He has also made muddy statements. He has made conflicting statements. He has kept things hidden.
“All of these were highly exaggerated by conservative “journalists.”
How do you exagerate the fact that Obama will not release any of his school records?
“I’m suggesting that when ridiculous things like the birther conspiracy are disproven, you stop treating them like legitimate issues.”
Let me explain again. We post news items, current events, articles and opinion pieces so that our little community can discuss them. You have been given plenty of space to express whatever you want about these issues, including being given the front page. What’s the beef…that we might win the argument? Are you that fearful that even talking about these things is somehow a big threat?
“I have read them, Tina, unlike most conservative journalists who claim to. ;)”
I’m thinking a refresher might be in order…you didn’t get it, even considering the wink!
“There’s nothing uncomfortable or tough about the question “Is Obama a Muslim?” It’s just silly and stupid.”
Thank you for sharing your opinion. Is it OK if others have theirs?
“No, our job is to speak truth to power.”
Is that what you call it? I call it pretending truth to feel powerful…I call it using cute phrases to sound smart…but that’s just me.
“Once again, none of these issues are in any way relevant, especially that last one.”
How do we know since they have never been investigated or asked? It’s interesting that you aren’t the least bit curiousb about the records of a man that people claim is intellectually superior.
“I don’t remember anyone asking to see Laura Bush’s college thesis.”
That’s because the Bush’s released all of their college records. (nothing to hide)
“No, they’re an indictment of conservative’s desperation to find anything–anything at all–that might make Obama look bad.”
So we should have different rules for conservatives? I say again…is it our job to make sure this president has a pleasant, easy time?
“Why? Why should his grades be investigated?”
He was applying for the most difficult job in nthe country. It was claimed that he was of superior intellect and skills. why shouldn’t we read his entire resume before we elect him…JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE!
“Why should a passport issue be investigated when Pakistan was not, in fact, on the no-fly list when Obama traveled there…”
The no-fly list is irrelevant. I believe the passport question has to do with his school years and his stated religion and/or his travel record.
People who work even at low levels in our government have to have a background check and clearance to be around sensitive or top secret information. Does it make sense that the president of the United States can keep his background a mystery given what he will have access to and given the position he will be in?
Chris these questions go beyond the petty. They go to the heart of what the presidency is. Not all of the questions, and not all of the questioners, are merely playing political games.
I also think it’s legitimate to ask why the press has different rules for different people and party’s since it is their job to ask who, what, when, where, why.
Tina?
I have figured out the why.
Back when the press dug up all sorts of info on your boy, President Bush–the skipping out on National Guard service, his cocaine abuse, his business failures, his C-minus grade average, etc, etc–nobody cared!
The press has learned we don’t CARE about things WE CANNOT CHANGE!!
I say we already DO have different rules for conservatives!
When all the aforementioned was brought up about Bush, you “conservatives” were strangely quiet!
Q: “Back when the press dug up all sorts of info on your boy, President Bush–the skipping out on National Guard service, his cocaine abuse, his business failures, his C-minus grade average, etc, etc–nobody cared!”
Nobody cared, or it didn’t have the effect of ruining the presidency, or it didn’t adequately turn people against Bush, or what?
I remember lengthy discussions and arguments complete with information to refute some of the accusations.
The cocaine abuse was not taken seriously because he openly admitrted his alcohol abuse and his recovery that included turning to God. The left press searched and could not find anything to hit him with after he turned away from substance abuse…or you would have known it. /they wanted desperately to nail him with somethinglike that.
Regarding his military records I remember the discovery that one newsman had fabricated records and passed them off as legitimate. I believe he lost his job over that little stunt. Apparently it is not OK for a newsman to present falsified documents to the public to politically influence them against a certain president and his party all the while pretending to be a neutral reporter.
I remember people reporting that Bush college record was really bad only to find out his grades were better than Kerry’s (or was it Al’s?). The accusation is weak anyway since so many in politics have a much worse record (like Ted Kennedy for instance)
I remember the guffahs about Bush failing at business. But failing at business is not unusual, it happens all the time. At least he had business experience…and a business degree. We learn from our failures as well as our successes…experience is what counts. No one in this administration has business experience…not one person. They are all lawyers and academics. That’s a tough sell when the economy depends so much on the success of business. The mistakes this administration is making can be directly attributed to the fact that none of them know what it s like in the business world. they’ve never met a payroll, worried about how they will meet tomorrows demands, had a period when cash flows were negative. They don’t get what the country’s businesses need to thrive and create jobs.
In any case the “sell” in the news is always to make conservatives look stupid…you know that.
No, I don’t get that people ignored these things at all. In fact the portion of the country that gets it’s news in tiny soundbites probably believed a lot, if not all, of the stuff that was said about Bush. The right was fighting back with facts but we still did not have the voice we have acquired today thanks to the tea party, the rise of FOX, and the internet blogs
Maybe I missed what you meant?
Quentin states emphatically that George W. Bush was a coke abuser and that Republicans were strangely quiet.
Is that true, was he really a cokehead?
Let’s take a quick look at the facts that have emerged since those early allegations. Bush’s campaign steadfastly denied the coke rumor, Republican’s in general didn’t have a clue if it were true or not and the only claims that were coming in about it were from biased and highly questionable sources…most internet BS.
Quentin, it was the media that was strangely silent on this issue – then again why should they report something that is false? Do you know something the media doesn’t? Do you have privilaged information nobody else does? If so, please share, we all want to hear everything you know for a fact about George W. Bush being a cokehead. If you can’t support this huge allegation then you shouldn’t have said it.
This came from another blog but it’s for Quentin’s reference, “But I had been under the impression that it was common and accepted knowledge that Bush was a cokehead at some point as well. I was surprised to learn that apparently I was wrong.
The most authoritative thing that I could find when I searched Bush cocaine was this Wikipedia page (note the qualification of most before authoritative there), but it doesnt even contain the word cocaine. The rest of my search led me to unsourced (or shadily sourced) no-name webpages which contained all sorts of the sorts of wild allegations that set off the bullsh– alarms from a mile away and remind you that anyone can post anything on the internet.” Alyssa
Quentin…about that C- minus you pinned on Bush…from a proven correct biographical “Bush… he maintaind a gentlemanly “C+” average at Yale and acquired a Masters of Business Administration degree from Harvard Business School,…”
Tina:
“Also the propensity of the left to take the extremist and make him the face of conservatism is BS but it doesn’t stop you.”
The left did not make Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter et. al. the face of conservatism. The right did. All are extremists who have tried to portray the Obama administration as somehow illegitimate.
“There you go again…being afraid to live in a free country! And being unwilling to hold individuals accountable for their actions.”
Living in a free country is scary sometimes. But I’ve never advocated making the country less free to deal with that. My response has been to use my own freedom to challenge the scary views of others. And I am perfectly willing to hold all individuals accountable for both their actions and their words. You are the one who has been denying your own personal responsibility.
“What’s the beef…that we might win the argument? Are you that fearful that even talking about these things is somehow a big threat?”
I’m fearful that repetition of conspiracy theories are replacing facts in American discourse. I’m fearful because 1/5 of the country now believes something that has been proven false. And the majority of those that believe have cited the media as the source of their beliefs. Only 10% of those that believe Obama is a Muslim cited Obama’s own actions and words for that belief. So you tell me who is responsible.
On this issue, among others, you’re damn right I’m afraid you’ll win the argument. Because I know the only way you can win this one is through deceit, innuendo, and a general dumbing down of the American public. That frightens me.
“Thank you for sharing your opinion. Is it OK if others have theirs?”
You are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts.
“The no-fly list is irrelevant. I believe the passport question has to do with his school years and his stated religion and/or his travel record.”
So I see the goalposts have been moved since I last heard about this manufactured controversy. It was originally about the no-fly list. You’ll have to be more specific on what the new accusations are, I don’t really feel like venturing back into Atlas Shmucks again today.
“People who work even at low levels in our government have to have a background check and clearance to be around sensitive or top secret information.”
EXACTLY, Tina. So why do you and others apparently think the U.S. government didn’t do it’s job and vet Obama before giving him the nuclear codes? Do you honestly think if there were any question surrounding Obama’s birth certificate, the secret service wouldn’t have looked into it by now?
“I remember people reporting that Bush college record was really bad only to find out his grades were better than Kerry’s (or was it Al’s?). The accusation is weak anyway since so many in politics have a much worse record (like Ted Kennedy for instance)”
OK, so if grades don’t matter, why does Obama have to reveal his?
“The left did not make Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter et. al. the face of conservatism.”
And this is your error. These people do not hold extreme positions. The portrayal of them by a very jealous, leftists media and Marxist left activists is what they want others to believe about them. They consider themselves main stream America…centrists! Whgat a crock and what a ridiculous “norm” from which to judge Rush, Coulter, and Beck.
“But I’ve never advocated making the country less free…”
Oh but you have. Redistribution of wealth robs us of our freedom. Central government policies kill freedom. Affirmative action kills freedom.
“You are the one who has been denying your own personal responsibility.”
I take personal responsibility and I let others do the same. What I won’t do is ask how high when you say jump. That isn’t personal responsibility. It is bending to the tyranny of a PC cop.
“I’m fearful that repetition of conspiracy theories are replacing facts in American discourse.”
What conspiracy theory would that be? A conspiracy that the press hasn’t donme it’s job? Is that a conspiracy or simply the truth?
“I’m fearful because 1/5 of the country now believes something that has been proven false.”
My position has never been that Obama IS a Muslim. My position is that Obama and the press have failed to address the legitimate unanswered questions that have arisen about his records.
“So you tell me who is responsible.”
People draw conclusions. they are responsible for the conclusion they make. The media is responsible for asking questions and reporting that records are being witheld. Nothing has been fabricated except for one nut who was discredited for creating a birth certificate as far as I know. The questions persist because they ahve not been answered…that is Obamas and the legitimate medias responsibility. There is plenty to go around. You are looking for GUILTY parties…there’s a difference!
“Because I know the only way you can win this one is through deceit, innuendo, and a general dumbing down of the American public. That frightens me.”
I’m not in favor of any of those things…too bad the president doesn’t think the same way. If you think he’s been honest with the American people you’re daft!
“You are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts.”
NOR ARE YOU! It is a fact that Obama will njor release his school records…what is he hiding?
“You’ll have to be more specific on what the new accusations are, I don’t really feel like venturing back into Atlas Shmucks again today.”
Sorry, I don’t do research on “orders” from you. I was just relating what I had heard…there may be more than one question here!
“So why do you and others apparently think the U.S. government didn’t do it’s job and vet Obama before giving him the nuclear codes? Do you honestly think if there were any question surrounding Obama’s birth certificate, the secret service wouldn’t have looked into it by now?”
It isn’t the secret services job to vet the president. In fact presidents aren’t given security clearances…don’t know why not.
“OK, so if grades don’t matter, why does Obama have to reveal his?
Records…records involve more than grades. The questions arise in part because of the lefts snarky comments about Republican presidents. One thing you can’t overcome is the past behavior of your party which has been incredibly nasty, petty, cruel, mean and in many cases filled with fabricatations and lies. They din’t just ask questions they came right out and stated lies as if they were facts.