by Jack Lee
Just curious what you thought when you heard the news about this huge explosion from a suicide bomber in Moscow today? Did you think it must have been radicals under the spell of Sarah Palin or perhaps it was the work of the Tea Party people so feared by the left? Maybe you thought it was, oh I don’t know, the Methodists or perhaps the Unitarians? Or if, by some stretch of the imagination, you thought it just might be Muslim terrorists. . .well, uh, then take a bow because you would be correct! It was Muslim terrorists.
However, Mark Potok, spokesman for the Southern Poverty Law Center may see it differently. He’s one of the loud mouths still stuck on saying the crazy man in Tucson was a rightwing extremist goaded into mass murder by angry conservative rhetoric. “What you can see across the board in his writings is the idea that you can’t trust the government — that the government engages in mind control against its citizens,” said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which has long monitored the radical right.
Loughner’s assertion that he would not “pay debt with a currency that’s not backed by gold and silver” is a running theme among right-wing opponents of the Federal Reserve system. “The people who talk about the manipulation of currency follow it backward from the IRS to the Federal Reserve…that it’s run by either secret, powerful elites or secret, powerful Jewish elites,” said Chip Berlet, senior analyst at Political Research Associates, a nonprofit group that also monitors right-wing extremism.
In truth these self-anointed experts like goofy Potok are really just rabid partisans finding exactly what they are determined to find. The incoherent ramblings of one Jarred Lee Loughner are now conveniently decoded by them as rightwing hate speech. And so it is that the pursuit of truth and justice ala the American left continues…so stay tuned, for more is surely coming.
Well, DUH!
Terrorism in Moscow?
The NATURAL assumption is Muslims. The natural assumption is they have been listening to MISinformation that has made him unnecessarily angry.
Whacko nutjob shoots democratic congresswoman?
The NATURAL assumption is a TEApartier. The natural assumption is that he has been listening to MISinformation that has made him unnecessarily angry.
And WHO spouts that misinformation?
DUH!
Why do you guys have such a problem with people’s natural thought patterns?
MOST Americans did not need any coaching to guess it was a TEApartier. There is a reason for that.
The AM radio guys say it is up to moderate Muslims to speak up against the extremist whackos.
That may be good advice for moderate conservatives.
Lord knows, the President tried last week; he called for intelligent, reasoned debate, but the haters turned it around it a call for censorship.
Now, your post merely mocks the problem.
And America keeps on declining . . .
BS Quentin!
I see you are back to puking your irrational putrified incoherent bunk.
You sound unnecessarily angry, incredibly hateful, and are engaging in spewing MISinformation. Learn the difference between a difference of opinion and a lie.
Grow up…and lighten up. The discord began long, long ago; it did not originate with talk radio. It will continue long after you and I are gone. Ours is to do our best one day at a time realizing we will inevitably err along the way, and that includes you.
Quentin:
We get it. Fox news is biased to the right. Good for them.
Rush hates the liberal agenda. Good for him.
We know Sarah sometimes sounds like Archie Bunker. Good for her. Archie was my hero.
And yeah, there are probably bad people who want to influence the Tea Party movement, but every T-Per Ive seen, heard, or read about, is pure down home grass roots with a common belief that government is way too big and high taxation is counterproductive to a healthy society. If they are being infiltrated by some shadowy and sinister conspiracy, someone is wasting their time and money. The Tea Party is one movement that finally makes sense.
I havent read anything from you about the rest of the TV news programs or talk shows. Are you under the impression that any or all of the others are unbiased and honest? Can you name one news program that can be trusted? NBC? ABC? CBS? PBS? Anyone? I dont think so. How about the liberal talk shows, like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert? Bill Maher? You want to hear some hate speech? Listen to those guys. Anything else on TV that isnt biased to the left? Most of TV, from sitcoms to news to National Geographic are chock full of the leftist agenda.
So give us a break. We know Fox isnt always fair and balanced; we can usually spot it, and dont give a rats rear end anyhow. We know Rush is an entertainer first and an accurate reporter of the political scene second. Personally, I quit listening to him years ago, because I got tired of hearing him tell us how great he is. One Mohammed Ali per lifetime is enough.
Sure, Sarah has an annoying voice, and if I want to see someone shoot a moose Ill grab one of my larger firearms, jump in my climate wrecking 4-wheel drive truck and head for Alaska. But Im glad Sarahs out there in the public eye, because she drives liberals nuts, and maybe distracts them a little from their usual path of destruction.
And if you think about it even a little, insane killers arent getting their ideas from the right wing. If they were, theres a long list of more appropriate targets they would be choosing.
Cherokee Jack the light of truth penetrates; thanks for brightening my day.
Well said Jack…well said.
Jack?
When you guys clean up your side of the street, I will be happy to ask the leftists to clean up THEIR mess as well. But the subject of my post was right wing haters. Please don’t change the subject–that solves nothing.
BTW, just WHERE is the leftists blog here at NorCalBlogs?
Can I have the phone number for all those leftist radio stations received in this area? They aren’t listed in the phone book . .
Again, this,”We ain’t gonna do anything until THEY do something” is childish nonsense that you would not accept from your own children, Jack. Plus it is divisive and is not part of the solution.
I, too, believe government is too big and is the problem. Government is bed with big corporations–we all know this–that IS the problem. To fix government, you must break the bonds between it and the forces corrupting it.
The TEA party is in bed with the forces corrupting out government. How the heck will that solve anything?
Take a look at Tina’s reply.
She has NOTHING with which to reply.
This is the legacy of the TEAparty corporate masters. They have yet to tell Tina how to respond, so all she has is the SAME insults she criticizes me for. She spews it, but cannot make any connection to prove it. The gap in logic is abyssal!
Like many intellectually challenged people, she gets angry at her betters. Rather than ask for insight, she rejects education–another legacy of the TEAparty.
Again, if any of you TEApartiers want to have a debate, you bring all of the propaganda the TEA party gives you–I will bring the truth!
Jack, this post really seems in bad taste. Why make the terror attack in Moscow political? Why make it a left/right issue? It really seems like you’re trying to score political points, which is exactly what you criticized liberals for in the wake of Tucson.
Also, I don’t see anywhere in those quotes where Potok or Berlit blamed the right for Laughner’s actions, or called him a right-wing extremist. They may have done so, but you didn’t even provide a source for those quotes, so how can we know what they’re talking about?
Cherokee Jack–
“We know Sarah sometimes sounds like Archie Bunker. Good for her. Archie was my hero.”
Are you serious? Do you really not expect people to read this and logically assume that you are a racist?
“How about the liberal talk shows, like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert? Bill Maher? You want to hear some hate speech? Listen to those guys.”
I’ll give you Bill Maher, but you’ve apparently never seen Stewart or Colbert. Give me some examples of their “hate speech.”
“We know Rush is an entertainer first and an accurate reporter of the political scene second.”
Make that last word “never.”
“Personally, I quit listening to him years ago, because I got tired of hearing him tell us how great he is. One Mohammed Ali per lifetime is enough.”
Well, at least you have some sense.
Did you all hear what Rush said about Jack LaLanne yesterday? Apparently, his death proves that healthy eating and exercise is all a big crock, because he still died at 96 years old. Because obviously, liberals have always claimed that healthy lifestyle habits will make you immortal. Between this and his mocking of Chinese language the last week, it’s a wonder that anyone can take this ignorant, distasteful man seriously at all.
Okay thats fine Chris, but what do you call NPR giving this dolt from the Southern Poverty Law Center the airtime to make his evaluation connecting a crazy man to right-wing people? When the haters on the left take pot shots at us on the right, we reserve to fire back and make them look as foolish as possible.
If they don’t like being exposed as foolish maybe they will stop doing it. This was simply an opportunity to make point, okay, a political point and a moral point about the absurdity of irresponsible people representing the left. My article was based on an action and it was re-action, that’s all.
Quentin:
Evidently you and I reside in two different dimensions. Im not sure how to respond to your post consisting of non sequiturs, unfounded assumptions, and ad hominem attacks. I guess I can try taking it one step at a time.
Q: When you guys clean up your side of the street, I will be happy to ask the leftists to clean up THEIR mess as well.
J: Who asked anyone to clean up anything? I wouldnt expect the leftists to quit being leftists.
Q: But the subject of my post was right wing haters. Please don’t change the subject–that solves nothing.
J: My post was not just a response to one of yours. It was a response to your undying obsession with Fox, Sarah, and Rush. I only suggested there might be others out there who are trying to sell us a bridge or two.
Q: BTW, just WHERE is the leftists blog here at NorCalBlogs?
J: Do you think leftists have been blackballed from here? Do you smell a conspiracy? Do you think its the same cabal behind the Tea Party?
How would you classify the astonishingly titled blog Outside the box?
Q: Can I have the phone number for all those leftist radio stations received in this area? They aren’t listed in the phone book . .
J: A small island of sanity in a solid blue state. One reason may be that leftists cant seem to get the hang of talk radio. Remember Air America?
Q: Again, this,”We ain’t gonna do anything until THEY do something” is childish nonsense that you would not accept from your own children, Jack.
J: I cant find that statement in my post, but if conveyed that thought, let me try to be a little clearer. I dont expect the left to do anything out of character, and I hope conservatives keep up the good work. But Ive been disappointed so many times . . .
Q: Plus it is divisive and is not part of the solution.
J: Divisive is good. Compromise is bad. As Ayn Rand said, in any compromise between food and poison, death always wins.
Q: I, too, believe government is too big and is the problem.
J: I cant argue when you make sense.
Q: Government is bed with big corporations–we all know this–that IS the problem. To fix government, you must break the bonds between it and the forces corrupting it.
The TEA party is in bed with the forces corrupting out government. How the heck will that solve anything?
J: I need some clarification here. As the popular saying has become, please connect the dots.
Q: Take a look at Tina’s reply.
She has NOTHING with which to reply.
This is the legacy of the TEAparty corporate masters. They have yet to tell Tina how to respond, so all she has is the SAME insults she criticizes me for. She spews it, but cannot make any connection to prove it. The gap in logic is abyssal!
Like many intellectually challenged people, she gets angry at her betters. Rather than ask for insight, she rejects education–another legacy of the TEAparty.
Again, if any of you TEApartiers want to have a debate, you bring all of the propaganda the TEA party gives you–I will bring the truth!
J: I give up. Your logic is overpowering. At least now I know where to find The Truth. Do you wear the green hat when you dispense TheTruth to the ignorant masses?
Q: “Take a look at Tina’s reply.
She has NOTHING with which to reply.”
There is no way to reply since all you offered was your attitude, snide appraisals of others and hatred of corporate influence. You tie anything you see as “the problem” to corporations. That is a narrow, incomplete view that makes you, a so-called educated man, look incredibly stupid and exposes you as anything but a classic liberal.
J: We know Sarah sometimes sounds like Archie Bunker. Good for her. Archie was my hero.”
C: Are you serious?
J: No. I keep forgetting that you cant joke around liberals.
C: Do you really not expect people to read this and logically assume that you are a racist?
J: Youre right. I should expect it in this Brave New World. Ill check myself in to the nearest Sensitivity class.
J: “How about the liberal talk shows, like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert? Bill Maher? You want to hear some hate speech? Listen to those guys.”
C: I’ll give you Bill Maher, but you’ve apparently never seen Stewart or Colbert. Give me some examples of their “hate speech.”
J: Ill try to force myself to go back and watch them again, but it wont be easy. Why dont I just take your word for it, instead of subjecting myself to more of their classy boys room at recess sense of humor.
Oh good, I got an opening to remind everybody about leftwing hate speech….you want to pay real close attention here Chris:
From the Media Research Center:
Findings in The Real Radio Hatemongers of this hateful rhetoric include:
“I really think there are conservative broadcasters in this country who would love to see Obama taken out.” (Ed Schultz)
“Do you not understand that Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh and Bill OReilly are as complicit of the September 11, 2001 terror attack as any one of the dumbass 14 who came from Saudi Arabia?” (Mike Malloy)
“[Dick] Cheney, by the way, looks very ruddy. I couldnt get over that. Like, he must have feaster on a Jewish baby, or a Muslim baby. He must have sent his people out to get one and bring it back so he could drink its blood.” (Mike Malloy)
Brent Bozell, founder and president of the Media Research Center, commented:
“It is bad enough that the liberal media continue to attack conservative top talkers with baseless lies and concocted smears, but we now have proof that the real hate is being spread by liberal talk show hosts with no repercussion from the media. Wishing for the death of Michele Bachmann and Rush Limbaugh goes ignored by the so-called ‘news’ media. Accusing conservatives of wishing to kill President Barack Obama goes ignored as well. Look: We have the proof. We have their words on record. The media must tell the truth about these vile offenders, else they participate in outright hypocrisy.”
Conservatives Want You to Die: If, in fact, the GOP doesnt like any form of health care reform, what do we do with those 40 to 60 million uninsured?…When they show up in the emergency room, just shoot em! Kill them!…Do we have enough body bags? I dont know. (Montel Williams)
Michele Bachmann Should Die: So, Michele, slit your wrist! Go ahead! I mean, you know, why not? I mean, if you want to or, you know, do us all a better thing. Move that knife up about two feet. I mean, start right at the collarbone. (Montel Williams)
No More Acts of Treason or Letting People Drown
[Snorts] I hope he [Sean Hannity] enjoyed his little rant, because he is going to have to make it every day for the next eight years. Every day for the next eight years, this is what he is gonna say on his radio show. Anybody who would try that hard to make you afraid which is what theyve been doing for eight years has to be scared out of their mind that they are about to get their fingernails pried off the levers of power, that they are not going to be able to steal anymore, that they are not going to be able to commit acts of treason anymore. They are not going to be able to out CIA undercover operatives. Theyre not going to be able to ignore terrorist warnings, or disappear people anymore. Theyre not going to be able to let people drown in hurricanes anymore. Theyre not going to be able to get their mitts on the Treasury, or hire cronies, or pack the Justice Department with Karl Rove protgs without Senate confirmation. Randi Rhodes on The Randi Rhodes Show, October 29, 2008
Alexandria, VAOn MSNBCs Countdown Wednesday, host Keith Olbermann, in a derisive 12-minute rant, claimed that President Bush was responsible for inspiring domestic terrorism against his critics and further suggested that Bushs supporters are like the pro-slavery congressman who used a cane to attack anti-slavery Senator Charles Sumner in the 19th century. Yet the liberal media, who constantly remind the American public about alleged hate speech on the political right, are not talking about Mr. Olbermanns remarks.
Mr. Olbermann, addressing President Bush, said: You instructed no one to mail the fake Anthrax [received by Olbermann], nor undermine the FBIs case, nor call for the execution of the editors of the New York Times, nor threaten to assassinate Stephanie Miller, nor beat up a man yelling at Senator George Allen, nor have the First Lady knife Michael J. Fox, nor tell John McCain to lie about John Kerry. No, you did not, sir. And the genius of the thing is the same as in King Henry’s rhetorical question about Archbishop Thomas Becket: Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest? All you have to do, sir, is hand out enough new canes.
Blaming Fort Hood Murders on George W. Bush
I think in his [Fort Hood shooter Nidal Hasans] particular case, its that hes counseling these guys, hearing about the horrors of these wars that hes now going to be sent into, you know. You add to it obviously the fact that he appeared to be and again, we dont have all the details yet but appeared to be getting more radicalized, you know. But you know, and also add in that, look, George Bush made many people around the world feel like this was a war against Islam by using words like crusade and all of that. So, and then you add to that the fact that he apparently was taunted for being Muslim because of the attitudes that had, that developed here. So and thats not to excuse him in any way. Thats what I keep hearing on the Right is, Oh, you people on the Left are trying to excuse him. Oh, its politically correct, or whatever. No, nobody is saying that this is any kind of excuse at all. But, I mean, its just, I think youve got to get to the real reasons if you want to stop this from happening again.
Stephanie Miller on The Stephanie Miller Show, November 10, 2009.
Ah this list is seemingly endless…there’s so much of it out here and their hypocrisy wreaks!
Q: “Again, if any of you TEApartiers want to have a debate, you bring all of the propaganda the TEA party gives you–I will bring the truth!”
We have encouraged you to “bring the truth” to this blog agsain and again. You have chosen, with only a couple of exceptions, to insulting others as a means of expression. Why do you think you have to demean others to educate or make a point? I don’t mind that you think you know more than others. I would like to point out that whatever you might have to teach is lost because of your intolerance and bitterness.
In 1966 Edmond G Brown (Jerry’s daddy) spoke to a group of elementary school children in a conspiratorial voice about his opponent for governor. Paraphrasing: You know who’s running against me for governor don’t you…and you know that he’s and actor…and you know who killed President Lincoln, don’t you?
Nothing has changed; it’s gotten steadily worse.
As Monte Burns would say, ex-cell-ent! Thanks CJ
“Why do you think you have to demean others to educate or make a point?”
I don’t know, Tina. I guess it rubs off from you.
What does that have to do with any point I raised?
Q: “I guess it rubs off from you.”
Hmmm…
I do demean and scoff at ideas and behaviors but 99.99% of the time (no one is perfect) I refrain from demeaning people.
“What does that have to do with any point I raised?”
I enjoy and benefit from you moments of clarity, when you drop the attitude and communicate what you know.
Cherokee Jack, the problem isn’t that I can’t take a joke, the problem is that your delivery sucked. Tina had the same problem when she tried to make a joke about taking up arms against liberals last week. In each case there was nothing to indicate that you were kidding.
I can imagine a lot of ways one could make a good joke about admiring Archie Bunker. Colbert’s probably made a few in his time. But it needs to be clearly satirical, otherwise you run the risk of being accused of racism.
“Youre right. I should expect it in this Brave New World. Ill check myself in to the nearest Sensitivity class.”
Yes, because being asked to refrain from making racist comments is exactly like being forced to take Soma.
“Ill try to force myself to go back and watch them again, but it wont be easy. Why dont I just take your word for it, instead of subjecting myself to more of their classy boys room at recess sense of humor.”
I like this idea. From now on, everyone should just take my word on everything and we won’t have any more of these problems. 😉
Jack–I’m far from impressed by that list. Don’t get me wrong, the statements by Mike Malloy and Montel Williams are atrocious, and I unambiguously condemn them. On the plus side, nobody knows who Mike Malloy is. And I’m sure I’m far from the only one who knew next to nothing about Montel Williams’ political views before you posted those comments. When people think of Montel, they think of his talk show, which usually focused on people with diseases and/or Sylvia Brown. You may be able to compare these two to Rush, Hannity and Beck in the sense that they all use violent, hateful, inflammatory rhetoric; but the former two, while more influential than you or me, simply don’t have a lot of pull in politics. Rush, Beck, and Hannity do. When was the last time you heard a Democratic congressman publicly apologize to Olbermann or John Stewart? When was the last time Democratic politicians admitted that they get their talking points straight from MSNBC, and try not to contradict the talking heads on that network? The right-wing pundits have managed to gain control over the right’s narrative. No left-wing pundit has any comparable sway over the left in general.
But the most important difference I see is that here I am, confronted with hateful rhetoric from left-wing talkers, and I am telling you that their statements are wrong and I condemn them. Yet whenever I post similar comments from Rush, Coulter, Beck, Hannity, et. al, you don’t make a peep. You seem to think it’s fine that Ann Coulter has called for the deaths of journalists and presidents, and that Rush, Beck, O’Reilly and Hannity routinely compare liberals to Nazis. Why do you hold liberal talking heads to different standards than the ones on your side?
I know of at least 5 adults here that see it differently Chris… : )
Chris: “You may be able to compare these two to Rush, Hannity and Beck in the sense that they all use violent, hateful, inflammatory rhetoric; but the former two, while more influential than you or me, simply don’t have a lot of pull in politics. Rush, Beck, and Hannity do.”
I think you have revealed the real problem for the left as well as the reason for their hateful intent to destroy these talkers. These people are influential but instead of looking to see why they are leading a movement, you (your side) has chosen to believe they have nothing important or useful to impart and that their listeners are either stupid or misguided robots. You dismiss them out of hand.
“The right-wing pundits have managed to gain control over the right’s narrative.”
The bad news for you is we have agreement in most cases. We listen and tune in because we agree with the meaty portions of these shows.
“No left-wing pundit has any comparable sway over the left in general.”
Left wing pundits have always driven the message for the left…they get it straight from the horses mouths…talking heads with talking points. Those who listen to them do so because they agree.
Whatever power right talkers have has been given to them by the people who watch and listen. They tune in because what they hear rings true in their own experience.
Your party, and their pundits, have lost ground because they have abandoned American principles and ideals and have placed too many personal and private concerns under government control.
“What does that have to do with any point I raised?”
I enjoy and benefit from you moments of clarity, when you drop the attitude and communicate what you know.
Well then, does this mean you are going to respond to the issues I raised?
Why is it, Tina, that MOST people thought the TEAparty was responsible for the shootings in Arizona the moment they heard about it?
Why was Right wing afraid that was exactly what most people would think?
Why is the Right so afraid of people’s logical reasoning?
” “I really think there are conservative broadcasters in this country who would love to see Obama taken out.” (Ed Schultz)”
This is an observation–not hate speech.
” “Do you not understand that Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh and Bill OReilly are as complicit of the September 11, 2001 terror attack as any one of the dumbass 14 who came from Saudi Arabia?” (Mike Malloy)”
Now THIS would qualify as left wing hate speech. What frequency is this guy on? Can he be heard in Chico?
“”It is bad enough that the liberal media continue to attack conservative top talkers with baseless lies and concocted smears, but we now have proof that the real hate is being spread by liberal talk show hosts with no repercussion from the media. Wishing for the death of Michele Bachmann and Rush Limbaugh goes ignored by the so-called ‘news’ media. Accusing conservatives of wishing to kill President Barack Obama goes ignored as well. Look: We have the proof. We have their words on record. The media must tell the truth about these vile offenders, else they participate in outright hypocrisy.”
Wishing the death of those who would divide America and see her fall is NOT hate speech–it is PATRIOTIC speech.
Killing these two is no more murder than shooting a red-coated soldier 235 years ago. They are the enemies of America and are a legititmate target for anyone who took an oath to protect our Constitution.
Besides, people wanting Rush dead isn’t news!
You lie about my country? You deserve everything you get!
Jack?
I will leave it to you to connect the dots. Please don’t take my word for anything.
Google “Koch Brothers TEA party.”
Read it all and decide for yourself.
And again, please learn the difference between an adjective and an insult.
Thank you.
“In 1966 Edmond G Brown (Jerry’s daddy) spoke to a group of elementary school children in a conspiratorial voice about his opponent for governor. Paraphrasing: You know who’s running against me for governor don’t you…and you know that he’s and actor…and you know who killed President Lincoln, don’t you?
Nothing has changed; it’s gotten steadily worse.”
Odd that you would twig to a comment made to schoolchildren 45 years ago.
Although, it helps me to FINALLY see your point: Right Wing radio is for Children!!!!
Indeed, only children believe it!
OOOPS! That was an insult!
I mean, only people with the intellectual level of a child believe what is said on Right Wing Radio.
There, no insult.
Quentin: Okay, I have done my reading. The Koch brothers are acting a lot like the counter force to George Soros. They are heavily backing conservative candidates and causes and so far I have found any that I disagreed with.
They spent a million bucks here to try to defeat that wacky job killing bill the dems pushed – we lost anyway.
The back several Tea Party candidates and more that were not members of the Tea Party, but just conservative republicans. That’s fine by me.
The Koch brothers seem more involved in political action committees and sub-groups than directly in the Tea Party. The management of the TP still appears largely self-directed by a loose knit compilation of like minded people. Like I said, I have been around since the inception of the TP and I never heard of the Koch brothers. We did a lot of promotions, included the big rally in Sacramento and they had nothing to do with it. Maybe they are more active elsewhere and obviously they are, but for us, they are just not a big factor. I don’t know how else to say it.
My point in citing EG Brown was that this has gone on forever and will continue…who cares!
Q: Wishing the death of those who would divide America and see her fall is NOT hate speech–it is PATRIOTIC speech.
Division begins when the federal government sticks its nose in the business and personal lives of the people. Democrats have played divide (and conquer) the people for years for personal power. Rich vs. poor, whites vs. POC, employers vs. employees, greens against oil companies. You have little standing to preach to conservatives about division.
“There, no insult.”
Just that same crappy, condescending attitude!
I do not believe you read all there is to read in 27 minutes!!!!!
At least I did not call you an XXXhole as you called me. Not that I mind, it proves that the hate comes from the Right.
Y’see Tina, what you lack are principles.
“Principles” mean that’s what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. THAT means if you criticize the democrats for something, the republicans are equally deserving of criticism if they do the exact same thing.
Yeah, I have no problems being condescending towards people who act hypocritically–especially after trying to educate them to the facts which they refuse to believe.
You got a problem with that?
Try not being a hypocrite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros
Soros was not a large donor to US political causes until the 2004 presidential election, but according to the Center for Responsive Politics, during the 2003-2004 election cycle, Soros donated $23,581,000 to various 527 groups dedicated to defeating President Bush. A 527 group is a type of American tax-exempt organization named after a section of the United States tax code, 26 U.S.C. 527. Despite Soros’ efforts, Bush was reelected to a second term as president.
After Bush’s re-election, Soros and other donors backed a new political fundraising group called Democracy Alliance, which supports progressive causes and the formation of a stronger progressive infrastructure in America.[49] Soros has made soft money donations to 527 organizations that he says do not raise the same corruption issues as donations directly to the candidates or political parties.[citation needed]
Many of the Soros funded organizations also use his money to fund lesser organizations. Find a partial list here:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/orgsfundeddirectly%20.html
I defy you to come up with a similar list of entangled associations with the Koch brothers.
Q: “At least I did not call you an XXXhole as you called me.”
People like you slay me. You have no idea what you did to inspire me to say such a thing. Your behavior here is deplorable most of the time. You are condescending, insulting, self agrandizing and seemingly incapable of offering much in the way of intelligent observation or opinion. In short you got exactly what you deserved. And if I recall correctly I said, “Don’t be an ass” which is very different from what you have asserted. You would do well to learn the difference!
“Y’see Tina, what you lack are principles.”
Is that so?
“”Principles” mean that’s what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. THAT means if you criticize the democrats for something, the republicans are equally deserving of criticism if they do the exact same thing.”
I criticize ideals and policies that don’t work. I criticize the false representations made against the side that share my ideals. I criticize those pretending that only my side engages in such things. I have said people are people over and over which is an idication that I expect similar behaviors from all people.
I have yet to read anything you have said that is critical of the left…so my advice to you….practice what you preach! And here’s a bonus…stop trying to control what others say.
“especially after trying to educate them to the facts which they refuse to believe.’
Obviously the educator needs some instruction in his craft…you can’t claim to be interested in educating and then complain because you have been ineffective…not with a straight face. Your entries are short on “facts” and information and long on criticism of the those you condescendingly think of as your students. This is not a good recipe for success…or satisfaction.
Quentin, this is absolutely disgusting.
You have not only lost all the moral high ground you’ve attempted to play here with this comment, you’ve lost all credibility entirely. This is worse than anything Jack and Tina have ever said here. I don’t care how much you disagree, maybe even hate, Limbaugh and Bachmann. Hell, I probably agree with most of your opinions on those two. But calling for their deaths is sick and wrong. Especially in the wake of the Tucson tragedy…how dare you.
I have always asked Jack and Tina to remove posts and/or disallow commenters who post comments advocating violence, and yours definitely falls under that category. So, Jack and Tina, please remove the offending comment.
Chris you are right of course and we appreciate your comments, I have modified one word which Q wrote and I will reluctantly allow the rest under our endorsement of free speech. I couldn’t find the death threat, maybe Steve or Tina already removed that one? We can’t have death threats.
I forget who said it, but it goes something like this, offensive speech is sometimes needed to prove free speech still exists. Thank you for your concerns Chris, I am sure Tina appreciates it too. Nobody here will every accuse you of not being a gentleman.
Jack, Quentin said this about Rush Limbaugh and Michelle Bachmann:
“Wishing the death of those who would divide America and see her fall is NOT hate speech–it is PATRIOTIC speech.
Killing these two is no more murder than shooting a red-coated soldier 235 years ago. They are the enemies of America and are a legititmate target for anyone who took an oath to protect our Constitution.”
I think if you are going to remove the “A word,” you should remove this.
I am also waiting to hear why you and Tina insist on calling out hate speech when it happens on the left, but remain silent whenever I point out right wing hate speech to you.
I condemn violent and hateful statements wherever I hear them. Do you have the same integrity?
Well, we disagree.
These two are destroying America.
I believe in doing whatever it takes to shut these two up–just as I would ANY traitor–to protect the country I love.
Two questions for you.
Did you think the American Revolution was bloodless?
When Jesus called the moneylenders in the Temple “Thieves,” was He using hate speech?
And no, Jesus never advocated violence, but then, I can’t walk on water!
Q: “At least I did not call you an XXXhole as you called me.”
People like you slay me. You have no idea what you did to inspire me to say such a thing. Your behavior here is deplorable most of the time. You are condescending, insulting, self agrandizing and seemingly incapable of offering much in the way of intelligent observation or opinion. In short you got exactly what you deserved.”
Ah! so there is a REASON for your action.
Y’see Tina, what you lack are principles.
“Principles” mean that you hold on to your values no matter what.
For example if you believe deficit spending is wrong on principle, then it is wrong–period. If you think hateful name calling is wrong on principle, you don’t engage in it–PERIOD! You do not come up with an excuse for it.
I could go on. If you believe in conservative values on principle, you don’t make up excuses for why the people you support don’t hold to your values. You find and support people who do!!!
I’m an SOB, Tina.
But I’m a principled SOB.
“I have yet to read anything you have said that is critical of the left…so my advice to you….practice what you preach! And here’s a bonus…stop trying to control what others say.”
It’s MY fault you don’t read my blog? Is it MY fault you don’t read my responses to YOUR blogs?
That’s a good one, Tina.
“I criticize ideals and policies that don’t work.” Easy to say! There are no criticisms of your party’s practices because you agree with all of them. Easy to “prove” to!
“Obviously the educator needs some instruction in his craft…you can’t claim to be interested in educating and then complain because you have been ineffective…not with a straight face.” True! I bust a gut thinking how hard it must be for your teachers. I am quite ineffective at teaching those who choose not to learn–but, even so, they learn a little. this is what someone said about me just last night: “I enjoy and benefit from you [sic] moments of clarity”
C’mon Quentin, play nice.
Q: “Ah! so there is a REASON for your action.”
Ahhh…the man can learn. As I recall you made another unfounded, obsurd accusation. I was calling you on it.
Q: “For example if you believe deficit spending is wrong on principle, then it is wrong–period. If you think hateful name calling is wrong on principle, you don’t engage in it–PERIOD! You do not come up with an excuse for it.”
Yes, and if you could follow those principle to the letter you’d be God. I have only to conclude that you are either a tremendous liar or a man without principles since you engage in these things yourself. Talk about being a hypocrit!
I’m an SOB, Tina.
But I’m a principled SOB.
We all know you are not God; get off it.
There is a real working world, outside of those lofty walls you’ve constructed in your brain. In the real world a person working with hundreds of other people faces the reality of what is possible. Most of the time attempts to move the ball toward your desired goal is a contest where taking what ground you can get is the most you can do. Such a compromise of position is not a compromise of ones prinnciples. An ignorant refusal to move toward the goal just because the others won’t let you make a touchdown is clearly irresponsible….also futile. You might as well go home and leave it to those willing to play. In the real world that stance is called cutting your nose off to spite your face. It’s a fools game. You get to be right but you gain nothing. Standing on the side lines calling others who endeavor to move the ball does not reflect any principle of merit that I can name.
“It’s MY fault you don’t read my blog?”
It is not your “fault” and you are responsible. I posted to your blog one time and you made the experience so unenjoyable I had no reason to return. (Hint it isn’t very interesting participating with a know it all who insults you; it is a waste of time)
“Is it MY fault you don’t read my responses to YOUR blogs?”
This is a lie…for obvious reasons.
“Easy to say! There are no criticisms of your party’s practices because you agree with all of them. Easy to “prove” to!”
And this is a problem because?
“I am quite ineffective at teaching those who choose not to learn…”
Still blaming the student for your lacking ability to communicate…or you know…it just might be…that sometime…sometimes YOU happen to be wrong!
“I am quite ineffective at teaching those who choose not to learn–but, even so, they learn a little. this is what someone said about me just last night: ‘I enjoy and benefit from you [sic] moments of clarity'”
The complete truth. When you get off that high horse you do have moments of clarity. I se them whether I agree or not. It has nothing to do with being taught.
I would just like to say that my purpose in pointing out obnoxious or hateful left rhetoric has been to demonstrate that it is not a one way street. I have no desire to condemn or condone the speech of others. We are all responsible for what we say, whether or not we realize it, and I respect the ability of others to determine for themselves whether what is being said has some redeeming merit or is just garbage.
I’m sure Jared Loughner thought Congresswoman Giffords was a “traitor” as well, probably disagreeing with whatever strange viewpoints he had developed.
Jack we have a death threat against another congresswoman now, either to raise the bar of political disgust and agitation, or as a serious cry for help from an uncaring world. In either case, this is serious and should not go unreported, if only for the ability to protect Post Scripts from any liability.
BTW, Limbaugh and Bachman are heroes trying to turn this country around from it’s plunge into a socialist grave. There’s a lot of pots calling kettles black here, in my opinion.
Quentin, this is not a matter of mere disagreement. This is a matter of you making death threats against a congresswoman and another public figure. That goes completely against the principles you claim to stand for.
Both of your questions are ridiculous. Rush Limbaugh, while powerful, does not have the tyrannical authority of a King George. Whether violence was the only option for the colonists is, as I understand it, a matter of debate among some; whether violence is the only option, or even an option at all, in the matter of Rush Limbaugh and Michelle Bachmann is absurd, as the answer is clearly “No, are you insane?”
And no, calling someone a thief is not “hate speech.”
Tina–“I would just like to say that my purpose in pointing out obnoxious or hateful left rhetoric has been to demonstrate that it is not a one way street. I have no desire to condemn or condone the speech of others.”
Tina, this is BS and you’re trying to have it both ways. When you call something “obnoxious or hateful left rhetoric,” you are making a very clear value judgment. By using that phrase to describe a statement, you are, by definition, condemning that statement. Furthermore, when you remain silent in the face of the hateful quotes I have shown you from people whose opinions you value, you are tacitly condoning those statements. To claim otherwise is completely disingenuous.
I don’t get your desire to pretend that making personal judgments about another person’s speech is somehow authoritarian or anti-democratic. To me, that viewpoint sounds a lot like ethical subjectivism.
Your refusal to acknowledge the quotes I’ve shown you just confirms what I was saying about how much control Rush and his ilk have over your party. In my experience, most liberals aren’t afraid to say something negative about Olbermann, or Michael Moore, or even Barack Obama. But when a Republican politician says something as innocuous as “Rush is just an entertainer,” he’s pilloried and ends up making a public apology. You find yourself incapable of admitting that Rush was being obnoxious to use Jack LaLane’s death to bash healthy habits, or that he was wrong to say the Democratic party supports Jared Laughner. You can’t condemn Ann Coulter’s wishes of death against journalists and Bill Clinton, her name-calling of the 9/11 widows, or her bigoted insult toward the Muslim girl I showed you in that video on another post. You know these statements are wrong and hateful, so what is stopping you from saying so? Is it fear? Interesting that you accuse us liberals of “groupthink,” given all this.
“We are all responsible for what we say, whether or not we realize it, and I respect the ability of others to determine for themselves whether what is being said has some redeeming merit or is just garbage.”
I would like to respect your ability to make such determinations, Tina, but your admiration of Rush Limbaugh makes that impossible.
Chris: “When you call something “obnoxious or hateful left rhetoric,” you are making a very clear value judgment. By using that phrase to describe a statement, you are, by definition, condemning that statement.”
Or describing it. It is ultimately just a matter of opinion. Examples are all over the place. I picked examples from the left to demonstrate it happens. Your side likes to pretend it doesn’t and that you are somehow better. We are all just people, Chris, and that is the point.
“… when you remain silent in the face of the hateful quotes I have shown you from people whose opinions you value, you are tacitly condoning those statements.”
In your world I suppose that’s true…not in mine.
“I don’t get your desire to pretend that making personal judgments about another person’s speech is somehow authoritarian or anti-democratic.”
I don’t get why you don’t get that being obsessed with the words others use and attempting to make them stop or go away and force others to agree with you isn’t authoritarian (I didn’t mention anti-democratic).
“Your refusal to acknowledge the quotes I’ve shown you just confirms what I was saying about how much control Rush and his ilk have over your party.”
Is that so?
“But when a Republican politician says something as innocuous as “Rush is just an entertainer,” he’s pilloried and ends up making a public apology…”
He is an adult and he made a personal decision.
“You find yourself incapable of admitting that Rush was being obnoxious…”
1 800 282-2882. It’s a toll free number.
“You know these statements are wrong and hateful, so what is stopping you from saying so?”
Oh I don’t know…maybe a picture of you standing there tapping that little foot and wagging that pointy finger?
“Interesting that you accuse us liberals of “groupthink,” given all this.”
It is a fairly universal thing on the left…that PC thing; I stand by the charge.
“I would like to respect your ability to make such determinations, Tina, but your admiration of Rush Limbaugh makes that impossible.”
Well good for you. If that is your yardstick for summing up a persons worth so be it.
Good luck dragging that PC wagon around for the rest of your life…it’s bound to become a heavy burden 😉
Tina–“I don’t get why you don’t get that being obsessed with the words others use and attempting to make them stop or go away and force others to agree with you isn’t authoritarian (I didn’t mention anti-democratic).”
I’ve never tried to “force” anyone else to agree with me. How could I possibly do that?
I am also not “obsessed” with the words others use. I am, however, legitimately concerned that people who hold such large sway over the public discourse are filling their viewers’ heads with lies and hate. Millions of people listen to Rush Limbaugh and view him as a legitimate source of news. This concerns me. Democracy thrives on an informed electorate. Rush Limbaugh thrives on misinformation and obnoxious incivility. He is immature and vile…the Jack LaLane comment, his comments about the left supporting Jared Laughner, and his mocking of the Chinese language–all of which have occurred in just the last two weeks alone–prove that, whether you choose to admit it or not.
“He is an adult and he made a personal decision.”
Which “adult” are you talking about? Michael Steele? Phil Gingrey? Eric Cantor? Mark Sanford? Todd Tiahrt? Jim Tedisco?
All of these men acted like scared little children in the face of Rush, because they know he probably has more power over their constituents than all six of them combined. How’s that for “groupthink?”
“1 800 282-2882. It’s a toll free number.”
I’ve called before and I didn’t get through. Come to think of it, I’ve never heard Rush actually debate anyone with an opposing view–all he does is yell, call them a socialist and cut them off. I doubt it would be a productive experience for anyone if I called again, but maybe I’ll try.
“Oh I don’t know…maybe a picture of you standing there tapping that little foot and wagging that pointy finger?”
So you can’t admit the truth because I’m too bossy. That’s spoiled, child-like behavior.
“Well good for you. If that is your yardstick for summing up a persons worth so be it.”
I never said anything abut your worth as a person, Tina, and you know that. I said that your admiration of Rush Limbaugh shows that you are unable to judge whether something being said has redeeming value, or if it is garbage.
“Good luck dragging that PC wagon around for the rest of your life…it’s bound to become a heavy burden ;)”
It isn’t “PC” to be angry toward a man for saying that I support terrorists and murderers; it isn’t “PC” to find it stupid and offensive when someone uses the death of a 96-year old fitness guru to argue that fitness and health don’t matter; it isn’t “PC” to object to the term “feminzai,” nor is it “PC” to object to a woman who insults a 17 year old girl’s religion and nationality to her face, or who expresses the wish for American journalists to be killed in a terrorist attack, or who advocates for the assassination of an America president, or who writes an entire book chapter demonizing my mother and millions of others (“Victim of a Crime? Thank a Single Mother.”)
People don’t get offended and insulted by these statements just because we are too “politically correct.” It is because these statements are blatantly offensive and insulting, as anyone can see, and they are INTENDED to be so. That’s how these people get ratings and sell their books, by being blatantly inflammatory.
It’s not political correctness to find this sort of behavior objectionable. It’s called having a conscience. You’re right, it is a burden. It’s too bad you seem to be unencumbered by it.
I just want you to know, Tina, that if someone on the radio was calling you a Nazi or a terrorist supporter, or wrote a book chapter insulting your mother, I would stand up for you. I would speak out against a powerful person making such slanderous allegations about you. I truly wish I could say you’d do the same for me. Maybe some day I’ll be able to.
Chris: “I’ve never tried to “force” anyone else to agree with me. How could I possibly do that?”
I didn’t mean to imply that you could. it’s the attempt that is difficult to understand. You can’t deny that this issue is big for you…hard to let go?
“I am, however, legitimately concerned that people who hold such large sway over the public discourse are filling their viewers’ heads with lies and hate.”
So human beings are just blank slates on which influential people write their version of the story? Come on, Chris, you aren’t giving people much credit. You also seem to be assuming their experience is the same as yours. Or is it that you think they’re too naive or stupid to realize they’re under another person’s control?
” Rush Limbaugh thrives on misinformation and obnoxious incivility.”
This is your opinion and you are welcome to it. You are wrong in my opinion. Rush does a lot of things to make his show interesting (rather than boring). When he is serious, his serious audience knows it just as they know when he’s being outrageous to make a point. Unfortunately for you at this point in time more people agree that Rush is a serious commentator with a keen mind…and a lot of integrity.
“…all of which have occurred in just the last two weeks alone–prove that, whether you choose to admit it or not.”
Those of us who pay close attention to all of the news, who also do our own reading and who have a core set of ideals and beliefs know exactly whay Rush says the things he says.
“All of these men acted like scared little children in the face of Rush, because they know he probably has more power over their constituents than all six of them combined. How’s that for “groupthink?””
Ask them.
“So you can’t admit the truth because I’m too bossy. That’s spoiled, child-like behavior.”
He said with a scrunched up face!
I cannot “admit” what I don’t believe to be so.
” I said that your admiration of Rush Limbaugh shows that you are unable to judge whether something being said has redeeming value, or if it is garbage.”
Your opinion and you are welcome to it…It does not matter that you think that. I am confident in my abilitites.
“People don’t get offended and insulted by these statements just because we are too “politically correct.”
You are absolutely right. People get offended because what they hear (or read) offends them. It is still YOU being offended. The emotion, the outrage is yours and your alone. You are the only one who can deal with it: Stop listening; lighten up; ask questions till you resolve the upset; take charge and find some peace. (I wouldn’t discount the PC training you’ve received it may be contributing in your upset- I can say this having grown up in a different era)
“It’s called having a conscience. You’re right, it is a burden. It’s too bad you seem to be unencumbered by it.”
Why do you need a conscience about what other people are doing? Isn’t that a matter for them? No matter how hard you try you will not be able to make the world perfect or the relationships between people perfect or the behaviors of people any different than they have been for all time. If yiou listen carefully to your own thoughts you will find you are the same as anyone else, just as mean, just as capable of having mean vile thoughts. The day will come when you won’t restrain them…unless of course you take a vow of silence.
I know What I’m about to say won’t mean much to you right now because you are so certain you know what Rush is about but I think that if you could talk with Rush, one on one, for just a few minutes you would discover that he appreciates the obviously wonderful job you mother has done as a single mother. He would praise her for her dedication and hard work. He would probably indicate that she is among the heroes in our society because she took a difficult circumstance and bettered her life and the life of her son against the odds.
This is the Rush I have come to know even though I don’t know him personally. His point wasn’t to condemn all single mothers or yoir mother in particular. The point was to highlight the terrible thing we have done to our children and families by embracing certain programs and policies, by failing to uphold standards, by indulging in hedonistic lifestyles leaving kids to basically raise themselves. That your mom managed to raise you well is a miracle and a testiment to her strong values.
Someone said something once that stuck with me. He was standing in front of me and a few others but not looking at me. He said, “If what I’m about to say doesn’t apply to you don’t pay attention to it”. He then went on to say something that didn’t apply to me but at that time had he not put out the warning I would have assumed he was also talking to me. You know what your mother was like, Chris. You also know that there are a lot of kids being raised by single mothers who are not able to handle the job as your mother did and who are being irresponsible and neglectful. Rush wasn’t talking about your mom…she doesn’t fit the picture.
“I just want you to know, Tina, that if someone on the radio was calling you a Nazi or a terrorist supporter, or wrote a book chapter insulting your mother, I would stand up for you.”
Thank you Chris; I do appreciate your earnestness and your sense of decency. If I thought someone intended to personally offend or harm you I would stand up for you too….like a Mama Grizzly 😉
In fact the left has been calling the me (the right) a Nazi for as long as I can remember. Before Rush became “influential” the left had a lot of fun calling his listeners (me) “mind numbed robots”…and racists of course. We have been referred to a speople who cling to their religion and guns recently. Back when Democrats had been in power in Congress for most of fifty years, and also had control (by agreement) of almost all of the media they collectively had a lot of rotten, condescending, mean things to say about the opposition (me)…and there was no one around to counter them…until Rush.
I imagine that has a lot to do with the “banter” that goes on between Rush and his often quite vile detractors today.
“So human beings are just blank slates on which influential people write their version of the story? Come on, Chris, you aren’t giving people much credit. You also seem to be assuming their experience is the same as yours. Or is it that you think they’re too naive or stupid to realize they’re under another person’s control?”
Perhaps my word choice was wrong, Tina. I would like to believe that you, and probably most listeners of Rush, are intelligent enough to stop seeing him as credible. This is why it’s baffling to me that you do not use this intelligence.
“This is your opinion and you are welcome to it.”
It’s not an opinion that Rush Limbaugh lies and spews hate; it’s a fact.
“Unfortunately for you at this point in time more people agree that Rush is a serious commentator with a keen mind…and a lot of integrity.”
You think most people really believe this? I highly disagree…but I’m not aware of any reliable polls that would confirm it either way.
“Those of us who pay close attention to all of the news, who also do our own reading and who have a core set of ideals and beliefs know exactly whay Rush says the things he says.”
I don’t really care WHY Rush said I and the “entire Democratic party” support the Arizona shooter. I don’t care WHY he insulted a recently deceased man in order to make an anti-health point that didn’t even make the tiniest bit of sense. And I don’t care WHY he had this particularly psychotic episode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJmJivheE9w
You and I both agree that sometimes, regardless of motive, some things are objectively wrong. These are some examples of that.
“You are absolutely right. People get offended because what they hear (or read) offends them. It is still YOU being offended. The emotion, the outrage is yours and your alone. You are the only one who can deal with it: Stop listening; lighten up; ask questions till you resolve the upset; take charge and find some peace. (I wouldn’t discount the PC training you’ve received it may be contributing in your upset- I can say this having grown up in a different era)”
Please! So when someone uses racial insults, as Rush and Coulter have, it’s everyone else’s fault when they get offended? That’s ridiculous and twisted. Although it’s interesting that you suggest “taking charge;” that’s exactly what I’m doing here, but you seem to want me to ignore such wrongdoing.
“Why do you need a conscience about what other people are doing? Isn’t that a matter for them?”
From a woman who voted to eliminate the marriages of people because you thought they were morally wrong, this is ridiculous.
As I have explained to you, I am concerned about the words of people like Rush and Ann Coulter because they have power and influence and they are using it for evil.
I want the American people to be informed. Rush and Ann Coulter have the opposite goal.
“No matter how hard you try you will not be able to make the world perfect or the relationships between people perfect or the behaviors of people any different than they have been for all time.”
I don’t demand perfection. I do expect that when someone says something that is clearly racist, or makes wild accusations without merit, that that person will be called out.
“If yiou listen carefully to your own thoughts you will find you are the same as anyone else, just as mean, just as capable of having mean vile thoughts. The day will come when you won’t restrain them…unless of course you take a vow of silence.”
There is a big difference between the occasional lapses in judgment and morality that every human has, and going on the radio every day telling lies and demonizing half the country.
“I know What I’m about to say won’t mean much to you right now because you are so certain you know what Rush is about but I think that if you could talk with Rush, one on one, for just a few minutes you would discover that he appreciates the obviously wonderful job you mother has done as a single mother. He would praise her for her dedication and hard work. He would probably indicate that she is among the heroes in our society because she took a difficult circumstance and bettered her life and the life of her son against the odds.”
Thank you for the kind words, Tina, but I highly doubt Rush Limbaugh would ever say such things. But even if he is like this in person, that doesn’t excuse his on-air persona. He could save kittens in his spare time and that still wouldn’t make his day-job any more honorable. I judge him based on how he presents himself to the country.
“This is the Rush I have come to know even though I don’t know him personally.”
OK…maybe you’ve seen another side of him. Maybe, even though I listen to him several times a week, I just always happen to miss the episodes where he is encouraging toward people in tough circumstances, and praises the little guy, rather than complaining about kids who get free lunches at school. I’ve asked if you could provide examples of him demonstrating such compassion, but I’ve yet to see it. I hope you don’t think I’m being too demanding here…but if you do wish for me to see another side of Rush, it would definitely help if you could show me some examples of this.
“His point wasn’t to condemn all single mothers or yoir mother in particular.”
I was talking about Ann Coulter, not Rush Limbaugh. But he has been insulting toward single mothers as well.
If Coulter didn’t mean to condemn all single mothers she shouldn’t have titled her book chapter, “Victim of a Crime? Thank a Single Mother.”
“That your mom managed to raise you well is a miracle and a testiment to her strong values.”
Again, thank you. You have much more class than either Coulter or Rush, who I have never seen say a good word about any single mother. This is why I wish you would not put stock in people like them. I know you are better than them.
“Someone said something once that stuck with me. He was standing in front of me and a few others but not looking at me. He said, “If what I’m about to say doesn’t apply to you don’t pay attention to it”. He then went on to say something that didn’t apply to me but at that time had he not put out the warning I would have assumed he was also talking to me.”
I am not sure what he meant by that, but in my experience this kind of “disclaimer” is usually used as a way to disparage a group of people without alienating a friend who happens to be part of that group. It’s a close cousin of “some of my best friends are black.” Regardless, Rush and Coulter don’t even use these disclaimers. Rush specifically said that Jared Laughner “has the support of the ENTIRE Democratic Party.” Ann Coulter never mentions anything about the good, hard-working single mothers who raise their children well.
“You know what your mother was like, Chris. You also know that there are a lot of kids being raised by single mothers who are not able to handle the job as your mother did and who are being irresponsible and neglectful. Rush wasn’t talking about your mom…she doesn’t fit the picture.”
You may believe that Rush isn’t talking about me and mine with his insults…since I’m not a mind reader, I have to base my conclusion on his own words.
“Thank you Chris; I do appreciate your earnestness and your sense of decency. If I thought someone intended to personally offend or harm you I would stand up for you too….like a Mama Grizzly ;)”
Thanks…but I still don’t think you’re good at discerning what constitutes a genuine insult toward me and mine.
“In fact the left has been calling the me (the right) a Nazi for as long as I can remember.”
As I’ve said, those people were wrong and their statements were stupid and cruel. Why can’t you say the same about those on your side who call the left Nazis?
Chris: ” I would like to believe that you, and probably most listeners of Rush, are intelligent enough to stop seeing him as credible. This is why it’s baffling to me that you do not use this intelligence.”
Funny you don’t seem to mind insulting me when it suits you…somehow this is different? The things you object to are personal for you. I can understand why you take offense or are hurt by them. I also understand what is driving Rush to say some of the things he says. That you don’t appreciate or understand is not something I can do anything about any more than I can solve the riddle about my intelligence. I’m confident that I’m OK. You don’t have to be.
“So when someone uses racial insults, as Rush and Coulter have, it’s everyone else’s fault when they get offended?”
I didn’t use the word “fault” which implies guilt. I said the emotion is yours and yours alone and only you can come to grips with it. Obviously you are not going to get these people you despise so much to stop what they are doing. You also will not convince me to speak against them just so you can have some of that emotion assuaged. What are your other options? Don’t listen to them. Write them nasty letters. Tell every one you know how much you hate them. Throw a party and invite everyone to burn a photo of Rush, as one NYer apparently did.
“Although it’s interesting that you suggest “taking charge;” that’s exactly what I’m doing here, but you seem to want me to ignore such wrongdoing.”
I don’t think that is what you are doing here. What you are doing here is dumping your anger and attemting to pursuade me to share your outrage. You don’t have to ignore what you consider wrongdoing but if you could resolve the anger for yourself you could probably stop running it past me.
“From a woman who voted to eliminate the marriages of people because you thought they were morally wrong, this is ridiculous.”
My vote was not based on moral wrong; that aspect of the issue is between them God. I have explained my reasons for keeping marriage as between a man and a woman. It has to do with what I think is best for children and society. (And I don’t want to talk about it on this post at this time)
“I am concerned about the words of people like Rush and Ann Coulter because they have power and influence and they are using it for evil.”
You have every right to be concerned and I have a right to think you are wrong.
“I do expect that when someone says something that is clearly racist, or makes wild accusations without merit, that that person will be called out.”
I expect that you will spend a lot of your precious time being upset and disappointed.
“There is a big difference between the occasional lapses in judgment and morality that every human has, and going on the radio every day telling lies and demonizing half the country.”
I’m sorry Chris but you and I don’t agree. If you had the opportunity to spend 3 hours a day five days a week on the air expressing your views and it didn’t result in people being offended, people attacking you for your views, people misunderstanding what you said, people taking what you said out of context, people wishing you dead, people spreading lies about what you said or what you meant by what you said it would be a miracle. Either that or it would mean you never took a risk to drive your point home and your show was boring…and you’de be off the air in no time.
“You have much more class than either Coulter or Rush, who I have never seen say a good word about any single mother. This is why I wish you would not put stock in people like them. I know you are better than them.”
Thank you for the compliment. I have a different experience of both of these fine people. Both address problems we have in this country that have been ignored for years simply because it’s hard to talk about them and because people are cowards when it comes to saying things that have the potential to insult or offend. While it’s true there are single mothers like your mom who struggle to make things work there are many more who simply don’t have any values to speak of, who have many children from different fathers, who live off the system and who raise their children so they end up in gangs, on drugs, and with all the attendent problems. This has a negative effect on all of us and is a waste of human potential. The things that Coulter and Rush talk about are designed to get people to actually look and tell the truth about the underlying causes of these things…and to make them realize that without strong support from the community to change how we have dealt issues of poverty and education these things will just continue to get worse.
“I am not sure what he meant by that, but in my experience this kind of “disclaimer” is usually used as a way to disparage a group of people without alienating a friend who happens to be part of that group.”
The experience happened as part of a proccess in a training session. Sorry you completely missed the point. I guess I failed to share it adequately. Just because the words “single mother” are used in a sentence doesn’t mean the words apply to your mom. Listen to the sentence…look at your experience of your mom…if the words don’t fit they are not meant to be an appraisal of your mom. (Is EVERYTHING always about race or gender for you?)
“You may believe that Rush isn’t talking about me and mine with his insults…since I’m not a mind reader, I have to base my conclusion on his own words.”
Or you can turn off the radio and dismiss him entirely. Or you can have the courage to listen and observe the emotions that you have (owning them) while taking from the show those things which actually do teach or inform. Live and let live. You wouldn’t say the things he says but maybe he has other points that are worth your time. Your choice. I know my words here may seem strange but they are important…taking responsibility for our own emotions, and allowing others to do the same, is one way we grow…and it sets us free.
“Thanks…but I still don’t think you’re good at discerning what constitutes a genuine insult toward me and mine.”
Perhaps one day this will change, if not, what does it matter really. We all get to deal with things like this. If we value free speech that is.
” Why can’t you say the same about those on your side who call the left Nazis?”
I will say that sometimes saying those things is stupid and cruel and meant for no good purpose. I don’t agree that the purpose in the case of Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter is to just say stupid or cruel things. I think they both have a larger point to make (that your side refused to respect, much less get get. this lack of respect is, IMO, what drives the salty language. The larger message is valuable in terms of your future and the future of our country.
Chris this has been interesting but I am frankly done with the subject of Rush and other talk hosts/commentators. If you feel the need to further address my lack of intelligence or anything else feel free…I’ll let you have the last word.