California Senate Bill number 48, now tracking its way through the legislature, would change the teaching of core academic subjects into a “celebration” of gay, lesbian, transgender and bisexual lifestyles. This profound change in the basic education of children would be mandatory, without involvement or opt-out rights of parents.
For further details click here.
Why link to such a clearly biased site? Why not link to a valid source of information, rather than blatant propaganda? Why not link to the bill itself, so people can draw their own conclusions instead of being told to fear for “the innocence of 7 million children?”
http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/text/74798
There’s nothing about a “celebration” of the gay lifestyle in there; it simply requires that schools include the contributions of gays, just as they currently include the contributions of other historically persecuted minority groups. Keep in mind that when states started requiring that schools teach about African-Americans, Hispanics, women, and every other minority group, people feared for the integrity of their children as well, and bitched about their tax dollars being used to promote a radical agenda that went against their personal beliefs. Same exact arguments, same bigoted mindset.
You’ll also see that several of the statements made by the “Protect Kids Foundation” are completely unfounded. They claim that,
“Science classes would be used to teach that same-sex parents are quite common, by teaching about a few animal species where the male takes the responsibility for raising the young. These lessons on penguins and sea horses will somehow prove that a mother and father are no better than two mothers or two fathers.
In geography, children would learn how a neighborhood such as San Franciscos Castro district transformed from an Irish working class neighborhood into a gay neighborhood. Why homosexuals move from rural areas to cities is another topic.
In language lessons, children would be required to act as homosexuals when they are role-playing to practice vocabulary.”
None of these examples are backed up by any evidence whatsoever. They may be speculation, but your link treats them as fact.
The fact sheet for the EQCA lays out some pretty compelling reasons why this bill is a good idea:
“In schools where LGBT people are included in classroom discussions, results have been positive. The Preventing School Harassment Survey in California found that schools where the majority of youth report having learned about LGBT people in the curriculum, only 11% of students report being bullied, but that number more than doubles to 24% if the majority of students in a school say they havent learned about LGBT people.iii
Furthermore, the 2003 Preventing School Harassment Survey found that students who have learned about LGBT people at school were more likely to feel they have a voice at school and make positive contributions at school.”
It’s interesting that the opposition to this bill calls itself the “Protecting Kids Foundation,” when they are against a bill that would actually serve to protect those most vulnerable to bullying. Perhaps they should have called themselves the “Protecting Kids, Unless They’re Dirty Homosexuals Foundation,” but maybe they thought that was too long of a name.
Chris since I didn’t write or endorse the website you have an issue with I will not defend it. SB48 is of interest to many people, in fact one of our readers forwarded it to me and suggested it be on PS and I merely used the link provided. I am not overly concerned with this subject one way or the other, but many people are, so your comments are noted and if others wish to comment then so much the better. (Jack)
Chris, I sent it to Jack, i would have started the conversation had I been able to,
I do not understand why you think it is ok? Parents cannot even OPT out, the “education” is mandatory. Why start in grades K-5? Kids that age are the most vulnerable. At the very least wait until they are older to introduce the different life styles, although not sure I understand why do it at all, kids should be taught respect and tolerance for everyone, the details of one segment of our society makes no sense to me.
Sorry, if you think it is biased,
Don’t blame Jack, he did what I asked.
This bill provides that yet another group (division) be targeted for “protection” through the use of “information” and the promotion of “understanding”. It represents one theory for creating peace and harmony at school and in the community.
There is another theory. It was once practiced with a lot of success in the classroom. Teachers instructed students that all students would be treated equally. They were informed that a set of rules governed the classroom and the playground. These rules were enforced by teachers that had the authority to mete out punishments for breaches. Children were expected to treat other students and their teachers with respect. End of story.
People who contribute should be celebrated for their achievement.
Harriet–“I do not understand why you think it is ok?”
Is what I posted from the fact sheet not good enough reason? As it says, studies have shown that students who learn about LGBT people in the classroom are less likely to experience bullying, and more likely to feel like they have a voice in the community and can make positive contributions. Is that not a worthy enough goal?
(Whoops, forgot to post the link.)
http://www.eqca.org/atf/cf/{34f258b3-8482-4943-91cb-08c4b0246a88}/FAIR%20EDUCATION%20FACT%20SHEET%20FINAL.PDF
“Parents cannot even OPT out, the “education” is mandatory.”
Should parents be allowed to opt out of curriculum focusing on African-Americans? How about women?
“Why start in grades K-5? Kids that age are the most vulnerable.”
You’re right, Harriet, they are. They’re vulnerable to bullying, which is a side effect of hatred, which is exactly what the Protect Kids (Except the Gay Ones) Foundation promotes. They would prefer that we teach children that there is something wrong with them for being different. I am concerned about the actual physical and mental harm that comes to kids from this type of bigotry. Surely you keep up with the news enough to know that such bigotry has taken the lives of too many young people this past year alone. Yet you seem more concerned about children learning that gay people are OK, and that they have contributed positively to society. Sorry, but the lives of children are more important than your personal animosity towards gay people. Enacting measures that ensure these children will grow into productive citizens is a perfectly valid use of our tax dollars. Your increasingly unpopular opinions regarding gays are not a good enough reason to say no to this possibly life-saving measure.
“At the very least wait until they are older to introduce the different life styles, although not sure I understand why do it at all, kids should be taught respect and tolerance for everyone, the details of one segment of our society makes no sense to me.”
Gays are one of the most persecuted and bullied segments of our society. It would be ridiculous and irresponsible to ignore that fact when developing effective anti-bullying strategies.
Chris, I said kids should be taught respect and tolerance for all.
Parents have the right to decide if LGBT teaching is appropriate for their children, you bet they do.
Why does it need to be taught?
I would much prefer they be taught the academics that seems to be lacking,Maybe we can reintroduce the Constitution,
I am not in favor of this one bit. To force parents to allow this to happen is wrong.
By the way to equate this to African Americans is just plain silly.
Tina: “This bill provides that yet another group (division) be targeted for “protection” through the use of “information” and the promotion of “understanding”. It represents one theory for creating peace and harmony at school and in the community.”
Tina, what’s with the scare quotes? Do you have any reason to think that protection, information, and understanding will not be achieved by this bill?
And how exactly does teaching about an important social group promote “division?” Doesn’t it promote division to refuse to teach about the gay rights movement, given how influential it has been to our modern society?
“There is another theory. It was once practiced with a lot of success in the classroom.”
When? You always say things like this, but you never give an actual date.
“Teachers instructed students that all students would be treated equally. They were informed that a set of rules governed the classroom and the playground. These rules were enforced by teachers that had the authority to mete out punishments for breaches. Children were expected to treat other students and their teachers with respect. End of story.”
And why exactly do you think this bill says anything different?
What is wrong with being specific? When I was young I was taught that certain words were off limits–the n word, for instance. I was informed about the history of that word, how it was used to subjugate a specific class of people. “Treating all people with respect” is a good principle, but it’s an abstract one. “Don’t call a black kid the N word” is a concrete example of how to live this principle. So is “Don’t call anyone a fag.” So is “Don’t bully a boy because they like girly things.” Kids need specifics, Tina.
“People who contribute should be celebrated for their achievement.”
Agreed…so is it OK for the school to teach about Harvey Milk’s achievements?
Harriet–“Chris, I said kids should be taught to respect and tolerance for all.”
Fine, Harriet, but they’re not going to learn that from the Protect Kids Foundation, which has no respect or tolerance for gay people.
“Parents have the right to decide if LGBT teaching is appropriate for their children, you bet they do.”
Again, I ask: Do they have the right to decide if their children are taught about the contributions of other minority groups? Or just the ones you don’t like?
“Why does it need to be taught?”
I’m beginning to think, once again, that you are not even reading what I’m typing. For the third time, studies show that this kind of teaching has a positive impact on kids. If you would like to argue this point, provide some counter-evidence. Don’t just ignore it and act like I haven’t already answered your question.
“I would much prefer they be taught the academics that seems to be lacking,Maybe we can reintroduce the Constitution,”
Every eighth grader in California must pass a test on the Constitution in order to graduate. Perhaps you should inform yourself on the CA educational system before criticizing it.
“By the way to equate this to African Americans is just plain silly.”
Why? I’m not hearing any arguments from you that don’t sound exactly like the arguments of segregationists before you, so how exactly is your position different from theirs?
Chris: “Tina, what’s with the scare quotes? Do you have any reason to think that protection, information, and understanding will not be achieved by this bill?”
Scare quotes? Emphasis perhaps.
I have a lot of reason to think that this bill will only serve to make for greater divisions and an increase in bullying. That is exactly what has happened over the past 30 years as a result of emphasising respect for others in terms of color, heritage, sex, alternative lifestyles, street art, language etc rather than the fact that we are all human beings.
“Doesn’t it promote division to refuse to teach about the gay rights movement, given how influential it has been to our modern society?”
Refuse? Influential? Are the people who made these great contributions to be honored and acknowledged for their contribution or for their sexual orientation?
“When? You always say things like this, but you never give an actual date.”
When I attended school. Bullying was not tolerated and it was also not something that occurred very often. I can’t believe the out of control conditions of todays youth. Although I realize that there are many factors that contribute to this horrid state of affairs I also believe that diversity training has contributed. When I was in school we were cleart that the rule was we treated all other students with respect. Adults did a better job of managing unruly behaviors. Kids learned early to have a healthy respect for adult authority. It worked much better than whatever we are doing today.
“And why exactly do you think this bill says anything different?”
Is the intent to celebrate the achievement or the sexual orientation? I had no idea what the sexual proclivities and living arrangements of various inventors, explorers, writers, artists, musicians and statesmen of the past were when I learned about them. There wass no reason for me to know because it’s none of my business. These represent personal information that has nothing to do with achievement or creativity.
“”Treating all people with respect” is a good principle, but it’s an abstract one.”
It isn’t abstract at all. It is all inclusive and quite specific. A teacher can then deal with an incident specifically with that child (or children) as is appropriate to the situation with the “rule” as the guiding authority.
“Kids need specifics, Tina.”
When they have crossed the line I agree. Children that have no history or propensity toward bullying or calling names don’t need it. Kids know what they are doing…in fact they are less likely to fail to understand than we give them credit…unless of course they are being managed by an adult that doesn’t get it. then they know exactly how to play dumb or defiant.
“…so is it OK for the school to teach about Harvey Milk’s achievements?
Like what? And what grade level?
Chris, Equating LGBT to African Americans is because one is a race and one is a behavior.
Did you know California already teaches that there are different families and all are important, they discuss that some have two mommies, two daddies and one of each.
Did you know that Sheila Kuehl authored the bill SB777, which spells out specifically all the protected people and none shall be bullied, it is an extensive bill, tried to get it from California webb site just for you, but it is no longer up as it passed, it is on google though.Why do we have to go further, with SG48.?
________________________________
side issue, about you Chris.I will tell you about me too.
Chris were you bullied? I was, all through school I had a miserable school life I have first hand knowledge of what bullying is like, It should be stopped period.
Do you have anyone in your family who is Gay?
I did, he died of Aids a few years ago, A darling kid he was.
How old are you? Are you still in school? ( I have a feeling you are)
I will be 70 soon.
Just think it important to know where we are coming from, and where we have been.
Thanks
Sheesh, are you kids so last year or what? What a bunch of out of touch, behind the times, low brow troglodytes. It is no longer just LBGT. It is LBGCTQQ.
Soon it will be LBGCTQQIP. Why should people who enjoy inter-species “sex” and pedophilia be treated like second class citizens? Bigots.
Moreover, K-12 education including respect for humans who engage in inter-species and child “sex” should also be mandatory.
Get with the program.
Ah, I see I am as out date as my baby blue leisure suit. By the way, why do they call it baby..blue? That isn’t the color of babies, unless its a whale.
Pie I guess I am out of date, lol, don’t even know what all that means…
I actually came on to address the issue of teaching the Constitution, I had heard what is taught is minimal very little about the Federalists Papers, so did a little search, (Chris aren’t you proud..)
Janine Turner has a web site, constituting America, she says too many people have little knowledge of the constitution, wants to change that, her web site is great by the way, discusses everything including the Federalists. Also Rep. Joe Baca (D) and Michelle Bachman(R) co-authored H.RS 686 to insure teh Constitution is taught in high school.
Tina–“I have a lot of reason to think that this bill will only serve to make for greater divisions and an increase in bullying. That is exactly what has happened over the past 30 years as a result of emphasising respect for others in terms of color, heritage, sex, alternative lifestyles, street art, language etc rather than the fact that we are all human beings.”
Correlation is not causation. Can you cite any studies demonstrating that classrooms which emphasize diversity in their anti-bullying strategies are more likely to promote division and an increase in bullying?
The study from the fact sheet I linked to draws the exact opposite conclusion. It could be a faulty study, for all I know, and I’d be curious to see if there are others that have gotten different results.
“Refuse? Influential? Are the people who made these great contributions to be honored and acknowledged for their contribution or for their sexual orientation?”
They are to be honored for their achievements, but sometimes their sexuality is relevant to their achievements, as is the case with Harvey Milk.
“When I attended school.”
How diverse was your school, Tina?
“I can’t believe the out of control conditions of todays youth. Although I realize that there are many factors that contribute to this horrid state of affairs I also believe that diversity training has contributed.”
I just don’t see any evidence for this. It seems to fly in the face of everything I have learned on the topic. But again, if you have actual studies showing that diversity training leads to more bullying, I would be interested in taking a look.
“Is the intent to celebrate the achievement or the sexual orientation?”
It depends what you mean by “celebrate.” If mentioning that an influential person happened to be gay makes one kid in the class feel less like a freak, then I say it’s worth it.
“I had no idea what the sexual proclivities and living arrangements of various inventors, explorers, writers, artists, musicians and statesmen of the past were when I learned about them.”
Surely you learned that most of them were married, and you probably learned the names of their wives.
“Like what? And what grade level?”
You don’t know what Harvey Milk’s achievements are?
Harriet–
“Chris, Equating LGBT to African Americans is because one is a race and one is a behavior.”
Being gay isn’t a behavior, it’s an inclination that leads to a behavior. But I stand by my analogy. They are both historically discriminated groups, and the discrimination in both cases is unjust.
“Did you know California already teaches that there are different families and all are important, they discuss that some have two mommies, two daddies and one of each.”
What’s wrong with this? It’s true. And it is important for the kids of same-sex parents to not be constantly made to feel different and inferior.
“side issue, about you Chris.I will tell you about me too.
Chris were you bullied?”
Not extensively, no. I was a bit of a geek, I was terrible at sports, and sometimes got made fun of in P.E. But I had a lot of friends, and most of them had a certain sort of credibility with the popular kids, so no one went out of their way to make my life a living hell or anything.
“I was, all through school I had a miserable school life I have first hand knowledge of what bullying is like, It should be stopped period.”
I am sorry about that, Harriet. You are right, bullying should be stopped, period. But I also think that as long as homosexuality is viewed as deviant and dirty, anti-gay bullying will not stop. Right now, I think it is practically encouraged.
“Do you have anyone in your family who is Gay?”
Two lesbian aunts. Although I think they are conservative. Don’t ask me how that works. 😉
“I did, he died of Aids a few years ago, A darling kid he was.”
I am very sorry for your loss, Harriet.
“How old are you? Are you still in school? ( I have a feeling you are)
I will be 70 soon.
Just think it important to know where we are coming from, and where we have been.
Thanks”
I am 21, and I am a senior at Fresno State. Thank you for the honesty and openness, Harriet. You are right, this does help us get a sense of where the other is coming from.
Pie, you wanna explain how having consensual sex with a person of the same gender is comparable to raping children and animals?
What’s wrong with this? It’s true. And it is important for the kids of same-sex parents to not be constantly made to feel different and inferior.
Chris, I did not say anything was wrong. I simply said we have all the teachings already,
SB48 actually hit me to the core I am so against not allowing parents to make a choice for their children.
I hope we still contact when you become a dad, your views will change.
Interesting that you asked how your Lesbian Aunts could be conservative, Not all gays ar eliberal Chris, remember
the Log Cabin Conservatives.
“Chris, I did not say anything was wrong. I simply said we have all the teachings already,”
I see. I misunderstood.
“SB48 actually hit me to the core I am so against not allowing parents to make a choice for their children.”
I am for allowing parents to choose which parts of the curriculum to opt out of in certain cases…if this were about sex ed I might agree with you. But from what I’ve read it simply seems to be about teaching the achievements of historically notable people who happen to be gay, and mentioning that fact if it is relevant. To me, this seems uncontroversial. But to many it is not. The bill will likely not pass without an opt-out clause, I have to admit.
“I hope we still contact when you become a dad, your views will change.”
Views on homosexuality are changing rapidly among the general public, in the direction of acceptance. I doubt my own views will change in the other direction once I become a dad, but who knows.
“Interesting that you asked how your Lesbian Aunts could be conservative, Not all gays ar eliberal Chris, remember
the Log Cabin Conservatives.”
I’m aware of them, I was just making a (lame) joke.
Chris I know there isn’t any way I can transport you back in time so that you can relate to the difference in society before diversity studies and after. I will look for a study but I find that so often there is an agenda attached to them. It would be unusual for anyone to want to study my position…although since Europe has now said multiculturalism doesn’t work who knows. I just know what I have observed over the course of my life.
My schools were fairly diverse. White kids were in the majority but we also had black, American Indian, Mexican, Oriental…I believe we also had one student who was Indian, at least two who were Jewish and another that was Arab…not sure what country. We also had Germans, Italians, Poles, English, Irish, French…heritage for white kids was a bigger deal then than it is now. I can’t tell you anything about their sexual orientation or religion (although we usual knew what religion our best friends or neighbors were) because we didn’t study that in school with respect to particular students. We studied the traditions of Mexican families, for instance, when we studied Mexico but we didn’t single any kid out just to study his heritage or acknowledge it for diversity sake.
Re, Harvey Milk, will the whole truth about the man and his murder be taught or just the Hollywood version? Not everyone tells the same story.
http://www.city-journal.org/2009/eon0521df.html
I can understand the LGBT community’s admiration for Harvey Milk but his accomplishment otherwise is not unusual or outstanding. (I admit I have a higher standard for awarding Kudos than most people currently do) He was definitely not in the same league with MLK or Ghandi in my opinion. He served honorably in the military but not with extra distinction. I fear he has been chosen for an agenda rather than any real accomplishment. Surely there are inventors or scholars, or writers with greater achievements?
“If mentioning that an influential person happened to be gay makes one kid in the class feel less like a freak, then I say it’s worth it.”
You know Chris I think that every teacher is confronted by unique situations within the classroom and generally speaking I trust that teachers will do a good job of handling situations with decency and empathy. I also think that forcing these issues into the classroom can just as easily work to create resentment, division and sometimes bullying. I firmly believe it is important for kids to learn to respect others for their humanity. I think students need to learn the importance of decency and respect in all aspects of life and in terms of creating a society in which it is worth living.
I lived in the Bay area and remember the Milk murder quite well. I wanted to know what you have learned…so I asked.
Harriet there’s a very outspoken gay black conservative man (sharp dresser) who is also a TPer. Just goes to show you can’t judge a book…not even conservatives and TPers…lol.
Re: Pie, you wanna explain how having consensual sex with a person of the same gender is comparable to raping children and animals?
As Popeye might say, “Blow me”.
Do you “wanna” explain how “historically important” people having “sex” with same species/gender are any less important in history education for K-12 children and young adults than historically important people who had “sex” with different species or children? (All children and animal are “non-consenting”, think about it.)
Do you really want to go down that road? Are you aware that inter-species “sex” fans and pedophiles have been the core and impetus of some of the most significant social/political/religious movement in human history?
Get a clue, dude.
Re: Pie, you wanna explain how having consensual sex with a person of the same gender is comparable to raping children and animals?
Addenda
(To repeat, as Popeye might say, “Blow me”.)
Completely beside the point and a lame misdirection at best.
This is about K-12 education, not your preferences on genital excitement.
The issue here is what should be included by legal mandate in the history lessons of K-12. I have read your arguments and reject them. They are hypocritical, bigoted baloney from a political agenda.
Pie, you replied to me twice and yet both comments were completely unintelligible. Try again, maybe the third time will be a charm.
Ooops, sorry kids, the above should have read “They are hypocritical, bigoted baloney from a NARROW political agenda.”
How narrow? Let us take this a bit further. Where is the representation of and respect for historically significant people who preferred “sex” with inanimate objects, or those who preferred “sex” with just themselves, or those rejected sex (in any form)and completely and refused to engage in it?
Methinks the Chris’ agenda is particularly narrow. It may well be he is only interested in pursuing his own narrow interests, narrow “sexual” preferences, and narrow idea of what should be mandatory in K-12 education.
Aside to Harriet:
I hope you do not think I was mocking you. Far from it. (Heck, I am not even mocking the verbose Chris. There is no need. He is self mocking.)
I was just trying to make a point.
Moreover, with regard to acronyms, Chico State University “sexual” champions have added their own and extensive/inclusive abbreviations to “LGBT”, as shown in a letter to the ER last year that I did not copy and is no longer available to the public in general unless you want to pay a stiff premium for the archive service.
Dang, I wished I had saved that gem. It was perfection.
Well Pie, I had hoped you would succeed on your third try at providing a rational, coherent argument to my position, but alas I was mistaken.
Thanks to the rest of you for a respectful debate. I guess for some that’s too high of an expectation.
Pie, I’ve decided that I will address the question buried under the mountain of contempt and arrogance in your comment, but only to show you how illegitimate that question is.
You wrote:
“How narrow? Let us take this a bit further. Where is the representation of and respect for historically significant people who preferred “sex” with inanimate objects, or those who preferred “sex” with just themselves, or those rejected sex (in any form)and completely and refused to engage in it?”
The problem with your question, Pie, is that in order for me to consider it valid, I’d have to ignore that the desire for sex with inanimate objects is a psychiatrically classified pathology, and homosexuality is not; that homosexuals constitute a significant minority, both currently and historically, and people who prefer sex with inanimate objects or with only themselves are not; that there is an influential, ongoing movement to secure the rights of people who prefer sex with members of the same sex, and not for the rights of people who prefer sex with inanimate objects or with themselves; that people who refuse to engage in sex are actually well represented in history lessons on priests and monks; that the word “fag” is a commonplace slur on school campuses, with no equivalent to those who prefer sex with inanimate objects, themselves, or no sex at all; and that there has been a well-publicized rash of murders and suicides as a result of anti-gay bullying, whereas there have no documented cases of murders and suicides due to bullying towards those with the other sexual proclivities you listed.
So, yeah, I can see why you’d ask that question if you chose to ignore every single one of these obvious facts.