Posted by Tina
The president held a press conference this morning calling for compromise in the debt-ceiling negotiations and, lecturing like a first grade teacher,”strip off the bandaid…eat your peas”, insisted that this was the only way to reach agreement on raising the debt-ceiling. But the President’s posturing as the only adult in a room was not compelling; it did not contain the power of leadership that would compel action in Congress.
Is it possible that deep inside the President understands the most significant underlying problem? (Nah…but I can always hope)
Compromise isn’t what’s needed now!
What is needed is a plan that will create confidence: confidence that the American economy can begin to thrive again, confidence that we can pay our bills, confidence in the business community to grow and expand, and confidence in the citizenry that jobs will be coming in the near future. What will it take to create this sense of confidence? Something that President Obama and the Democrats do not, and will not, consider: their ideas simply do not work.
Democrat policies have failed the American people.
But that’s not all. Our policies have failed in the greater world economy. It’s time for Democrats to swallow their sizable sense of pride and admit that what they did during the course of their two years of super majority control has been a complete bust! They must admit that the position taken by Obama in 2009 on the stimulus, “I won”, was arrogant and totally lacking in leadership, compromise, or consideration of Republican concerns:
President Obama listened to Republican gripes about his stimulus package during a meeting with congressional leaders Friday morning – but he also left no doubt about who’s in charge of these negotiations. “I won,” Obama noted matter-of-factly…
“Republican gripes?” Is that what they were doing…merely “griping” when they expressed doubts about the Democrat plans for recovery? Or were their concerns well founded and possibly something that should be taken very seriously?
Pride goeth before a fall!
And we are well on our way to a very hard fall. it’s time for the president to “step up”. He could start this process simply by heeding his own advice:
In August 2009, on a visit to Elkhart, Indiana to tout his stimulus plan, Obama sat down for an interview with NBC’s Chuck Todd, and was conveyed a simple request from Elkhart resident Scott Ferguson: “Explain how raising taxes on anyone during a deep recession is going to help with the economy.”
Obama agreed with Ferguson’s premise – raising taxes in a recession is a bad idea. “First of all, he’s right. Normally, you don’t raise taxes in a recession, which is why we haven’t and why we’ve instead cut taxes. So I guess what I’d say to Scott is – his economics are right. You don’t raise taxes in a recession. We haven’t raised taxes in a recession.”
Todd reminded Obama that he had promised to raise taxes on “some of the wealthiest” Americans.
Obama responded by reiterating his opposition to tax hikes during a recession and making an argument about timing. “We have not proposed a tax hike for the wealthy that would take effect in the middle of a recession. Even the proposals that have come out of Congress – which by the way were different from the proposals I put forward – still wouldn’t kick in until after the recession was over. So he’s absolutely right, the last thing you want to do is raise taxes in the middle of a recession because that would just suck up – take more demand out of the economy and put business further in a hole.”
Indeed Mr. President, indeed!
Arrogance, failed Democrat policies, and a total lack of good faith negotiating with Republicans have brought us to this threshold of increasing debt and a continuing failing economy. The time has come to enact a different approach. Democrats must swallow their pride and agree to spending cuts rather than raising the debt-ceiling for two reasons: 1. Americans don’t need more debt piled on their shoulders and 2. Americans need jobs.
Compromise now? Hell no! Compromise can once again be an option only after the economy has fully recovered and the American people are back to full employment.
THIS is funny!!!!!!
Republicans have done everything they can for two years to botch things up. Not one piece of Obama’s plans has passed without the Republicans watering it down or altering it is some way. For example, had Obama been able to pass single-payer health care, that would have removed a trmendous uncertainty for small-businessmen.
As a small businessman, I blame the Republicans for creating that uncertainty.
The Democrats may have had the majority for one-third of the time the Republicans held the same advantage in the early 2000s, but to imply the Republicans have had no hand in this debacle; that this is all the fault of one party is puerile idiocy.
And simply untrue.
Next year, Reagan’s 14% 30 year notes–a trillion dollars worth–come due.
We do not have the 4.2 trillion dollars necessary to cover these bonds.
We will be defaulting anyway, Tina.
Thank you for your help in this.
Laughing: “Republicans have done everything they can for two years to botch things up.”
Name one.
“…had Obama been able to pass single-payer health care, that would have removed a trmendous uncertainty for small-businessmen.”
Only businessmen that don’t realize how expensive it would be for Americans who pay taxes…how it would put a big damper on innovation in medicine and the creation of new drugs…how it would deliver an inferior product over time…and how it, like every other entitlement program would ultimately become unsustainable.
The rest of us see it as the poison pill that it is.
“…the Republicans held the same advantage in the early 2000s”
Not true. the Republicans held majority positions but still needed Democrat votes to pass legislation. Democrats under Obama had for the first two years a super majority, meaning, they had enough votes to pass any legislation they wanted without a single Republican vote if all Democrats stood together. That’s a lot of power and that’s why this ignorant, complicated, unworkable, Obamacare got passed…that an a lot of tricks and bribes.
“…to imply the Republicans have had no hand in this debacle; that this is all the fault of one party is puerile idiocy.”
I exposed Democrat policies for getting us into this mess. The list is long but that’s not to say that some Republicans didn’t go along with some of these plans…compromising on their own principles and ideas along the way…to “get along” and to “get things done”. But the ideas themselves are pure democrat…actually progressive. We haven’t had good old fashioned American Democrats in Congress for some time now.
If you will…name a Republican “idea” that has contributed to the mess we are in and tell us how it contributed.
I have a prediction to make: I don’t like saying this, but I think it to be true. The Republicans will cave and they will raise the debt ceiling and they will do it within the next 10 days. I hope I’m wrong, but lets wait and see.
“Name one.”
I did.
I wrote: Not one piece of Obama’s plans has passed without the Republicans watering it down or altering it is some way. For example, had Obama been able to pass single-payer health care, that would have removed a trmendous uncertainty for small-businessmen.
Your esponse to it does not make it an untrue statement. Your rebuttal is, in fact, incorrect.
Do you not read?
I could give you more examples but it looks as if you ignored the one I gave you. Would you pay attention to other examples? I doubt it.
“the Republicans held majority positions but still needed Democrat votes to pass legislation. Democrats under Obama had for the first two years a super majority, meaning, they had enough votes to pass any legislation they wanted without a single Republican vote if all Democrats stood together. That’s a lot of power and that’s why this ignorant, complicated, unworkable, Obamacare got passed…that an a lot of tricks and bribes.”
This is not true, look it up.
“If you will…name a Republican “idea” that has contributed to the mess we are in and tell us how it contributed.”
Medicare Part D. And if I need to tell you how, then ma’am, you do not know what you are talking about at all!
Have a nice day, ma’am.
BTW, every single American economist says single-payer would reduce costs for all businesses in the country, and spur recovery. Look it up, ma’am.
I am not sure where you get your silly ideas! I think someone has misled you.
You don’t hope any such thing … hypocrite.
I hope Boehner gets what he SAYS he wants … and you all reap what you’ve sown … bigtime.
Just so’s I don’t have to listen to this duplicitous shit anymore.
Well done, Q. They all have the most astonishingly short memories.
Quit with the finger-pointing. Both political parties are responsible for the debt hole we are in since they can’t keep from spending Other People’s Money. The only way to curtail spending is to cut off the money spigot.
If Obamacare was repealed, the deficit numbers would change radically – for the good. The argument that the Feds must provide health care for everyone sounds great . . . until the bill is presented.
Enough with the nanny state.
Laughing, not every American economist agrees as you stated. Many have pointed out that central economic planning boards are bound to fail. On its face, it’s hard to dismiss that the Affordable Care Act (AC) key factor does incorporate the establishment of the Independent Payment Advisory Board. Another government agency that will be budget constrained soon enough and its sole function is that of a central price-setting committee thought by its advocates necessary to contain the runaway cost of the American health-care system. However they overlooked why American health-care spending has exploded so? In large part because market prices for insurance and health services have been abolished and obscured, do in large part to Government manipulation. Had the ACA incorporated ‘free choice’ it could have enhanced the role of freely-moving market prices in the provision of insurance and health care, but as written it does the opposite. And please, do not argue that we will be entitled to maintain the private vendors we now have chosen, that is as blatant a lie as any the ACA advocates and Obama has spun about this cobbled together Single payer government run plan that even those who voted it in do not fully understand. But why should they care, their own exclusive Cadillac plan excludes them from the mess they have crafted the rest of us.
Tina:
“But the ideas themselves are pure democrat…actually progressive.”
Tina, would one of those ideas be the individual mandate?
Because that idea originated from conservatives, not progressives.
Would another one of those ideas be that big conservative bugaboo, a nationalized health service?
Because that was invented by conservative icon Winston Churchill.
It’s funny that you’re trying to blame Democrats for ideas that your side came up with; it’s even funnier because these ideas actually work. It’s just political suicide for Republicans to admit that, because they’ve fallen so far from their roots.
Also, perhaps a big reason for the lack of confidence among business owners is the huge amount of lies your side is trying to get them to believe. For instance, you and others have been saying all along that under Obama, many small businesses will have their taxes raised. This is not true; only 3% of small business owners make enough to see a tax increase.
J Soden:
“If Obamacare was repealed, the deficit numbers would change radically – for the good.”
What are you basing this on, J? The CBO and many other institutions have concluded that the deficit would go way up if the Affordable Care Act were repealed.
Quentin, regarding “Reagans trillion”…call that Tip O’Neals trillion since he promised $3 in spending cuts for every $1 in tax increases in negotiations and then BROKE THAT PROMISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this failure to keep his promise is the reason for the deficit spending under Reagan.
If we don’t have the money to pay our debts it’s not because we don’t have revenue but because the credit cards need to be cut up…they spend now and into the future what they cannot pay!
It’s time for this practice to be stopped!
Libby: “They all have the most astonishingly short memories.”
At least our “memories” are based on information gathered from many points of view rather than the propaganda you swallowed at the time coming out of the single voice of the MSM.
J Soden: “If Obamacare was repealed, the deficit numbers would change radically – for the good…”
Excellent!
Chris: “Tina, would one of those ideas be the individual mandate? Because that idea originated from conservatives..”
I will concede this point. One thing though, the only reason it became an issue at all is that government got involved in healthcare. Conservative Republicans at the core believe in the private sector with minimal government oversight works best. It is Progressives who favor government involvement and entitlement programs. They have been the authors of these programs dating back at least to the 1930’s.
“Because that was invented by conservative icon Winston Churchill.”
Had to go across the pond for that one but more importantly how has it worked out for GB? They are sick of their NHS and are moving to make free market changes.
“It’s funny that you’re trying to blame Democrats for ideas that your side came up with…”
You came up with a couple of things and suddenly conservatives are the givers of big government? Besides…the idea was to contrast the difference in what the two parties actually want. Democrats are absolutely and unabashidly certain that government can do a better job. fundamentally Republicans believe in free market and the private sector.
gotta go will finish this at home.
Reminds me of the Peanut character Lucy telling Charlie Brown to trust her to not pull the football away. Right! Hopefully, the republicans have wised up and understand the president and democrats can not be trusted to keep their promises. They didnt before. History will repeat itself.
The unmitigated gall of the democrats to condemn the republicans for their plan when they refuse to put anything in writing that they could be held accountable for. All the dems have done is present undocumented verbiage because they dont have the guts to put it in writing. Afraid theyll be held accountable by the voters if they do. Same goes with us not having a budget for last year and this year. How the hell do you run a household with out a budget, let alone a whole country. Easy answer, you obviously dont.
Also, Obama threatening to not mail out Soc. Sec. checks on Aug. 3rd if the debt ceiling isnt raised is another of his blame the republicans when its tax cheat Tim Geitner who, as the head of the treasury dept., is the person with the authority to decide who and what gets paid. He better pay our loans and pensions before he pays anything to those on Harriets list, if he doesnt want to be held accountable for people not getting those checks.
Obama must think the American people really are stupid to fall for this again just like they did when they voted him into office.
Chris: “It’s just political suicide for Republicans to admit that, because they’ve fallen so far from their roots.”
Like I said a couple of ideas…that wouldn’t have been suggested except that we have already gone down this socialized path and now the debate is so often about how rather than whether we do something. We haven’t fallen far from our roots as much as been very unsuccessful in selling the alternative to the big government socialist nightmare that inevitably brings huge problems like: the housing crisis, the usustanability of entitlement programs, almost 50% of citizens so uneducated or underemployed or both that they are takers rather than contributors, the massive debt, and the massive interest on the debt….all of these things flow from the socialist agenda pressed by progressives over the past 70 years.
“The CBO and many other institutions have concluded that the deficit would go way up if the Affordable Care Act were repealed.”
You are exactly right..however the scoring done by the CBO assumes all goes as expected. History tells us this is a pipe dream:
Government uses projected costs to help sell entitlement programs, after all who in their right mind would support a plan that would break the bank and burden the American people?
As we at PS have pointed out before, government assured us back in 1965 that Medicare would be inexpensive and sustainable. Heritage has the record on Medicare and other programs. See here:
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/04/health-care-reform-cost-estimates-what-is-the-track-record/
This doesn’t bode well for any government plan but…
As you said the CBOs evaluation did project deficit reduction. The trouble is we never hear about the caveats as this paper, on the effects of repeal, points out. The paper is generally favorable to ACA…I excerpted the negatives because it’s quite long:
http://www.concordcoalition.org/issue-briefs/2011/0118/health-care-reform-update-and-fiscal-look-repeal
perhaps a big reason for the lack of confidence among business owners is the huge amount of lies your side is trying to get them to believe
“We haven’t fallen far from our roots as much as been very unsuccessful in selling the alternative to the big government ….”
Selling? Apt terminology. See, if there were now, or had been in the past, ever, a successful alternative to SS, you’d be able to point to it for evidence … no selling required. But there isn’t, and you can’t.
Bummer.
You want us to experiment with private sector management of SS funds? Well, I’m afraid that the advent of the Credit Default Swap (clever fellows!) put a stop to that for the next generation or two. Better luck next time.
“If Obamacare was repealed, the deficit numbers would change radically – for the good.”
Would you go read up on the subject, please. The Health Care bill spends money only in that it employs people to organize the implementation of structural changes to Medicare, and the insurance market, and organizes these insurance pools.
Now, if it were actually organizing private insurers into a single payer system … we would be spending real money.
“I will concede this point. One thing though, the only reason it became an issue at all is that government got involved in healthcare.”
And with the inidividual mandate, Heritage and other conservative institutions and individuals were advocating for EVEN MORE government intervention…I believe the word “unprecedented” has been tossed about in the most recent debate about the individual mandate.
“Had to go across the pond for that one but more importantly how has it worked out for GB? They are sick of their NHS and are moving to make free market changes.”
They are not “sick of their NHS.” They are looking for reform, but overall they are happy with their overall system and wouldn’t trade it for ours.
“You came up with a couple of things and suddenly conservatives are the givers of big government?”
“A couple of things” that modern conservatives have called tyrannical, Marxist, unconstitutional, and the worst violations of government power they’d ever seen in the U.S…hardly insignificant.
Chris: “And with the inidividual mandate, Heritage and other conservative institutions and individuals were advocating for EVEN MORE government intervention…”
Not exactly. Individual mandates in the form of a deduction from a paycheck is a long way from forcing everyone to opurchase a product. The difference is in how the legisaltion is written. We are already embroiled in government programs. Conservatives are looking for ways to reverse that trend and put more power in the hands of individuals. Choice is written completely out of the ACA mandate. The language of conservative proposals are more likely to incentivise toward the private sector. We don’t get to erase what has already been put in place (dems won’t let that happen) but given a choice and the chance to see how well it can work we believe people will choose private sector solutions.
“I believe the word “unprecedented” has been tossed about in the most recent debate about the individual mandate.”
That is because in this form it is unprecedented. The government has never compelled its citizens to buy a specific product before…whats next? Will it be specific foods because we are susceptible to obesity and that will unfavoirably impact health care costrs under ACA? Will we be compelled to buy a membership in a gym? (If youn think this is absurd you haven’t been around progessives long enough)
“…that modern conservatives have called tyrannical, Marxist, unconstitutional, and the worst violations of government power they’d ever seen in the U.S…hardly insignificant.”
I’m pretty suire most of that covers the entire ACA package and it’s said with the full weight of other entitlements from the New Deal forward pressing at the edges of experience. As I wrote before…you haven’t been around progressives long enough!
You don’t seem to appreciate how freedoms are usually lost. It isn’t that big war you should fear but the slicing of bits of it one after another until you’ve been put in chains with nary a whimper escaping your lips.
“The government has never compelled its citizens to buy a specific product before ….”
So … don’t.
I’ll eat worms and die before I allow my government to require me to pay money to Aetna, and it’s shareholders, for coverage that isn’t coverage at all.
Which is why we’ll be to single payer … sometime in 2015.
Yes!!!!
Chris you and any of our readers interested in this subject might find this article interesting in light of our current financial troubles:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304911104576443953024891120.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
Libby: “Which is why we’ll be to single payer … sometime in 2015.”
Which was the plan all along, thank you Libby. But who knows? sanity and empty pockets may put a damper in your socialist plan. You seriously need to read the article above…there won’t be enough people pulling the cart and we will have permanent recession/depression.
Tina: “Individual mandates in the form of a deduction from a paycheck is a long way from forcing everyone to opurchase a product.”
Is that what Heritage proposed? A new tax? Because that’s it’s own special brand of irony.
“The government has never compelled its citizens to buy a specific product before…”
Tina, are you forgetting that I proved this claim false no more than a few weeks ago? The founders supported more than one piece of legislation which absolutely DID force citizens to buy a specific product (guns, healthcare). Why are you repeating something you know isn’t true?
“You don’t seem to appreciate how freedoms are usually lost. It isn’t that big war you should fear but the slicing of bits of it one after another until you’ve been put in chains with nary a whimper escaping your lips.”
God, conservatives are such drama queens sometimes.
For instance, you referred to Libby’s idea of a single payer system as a “socialist plan.”
Was this also a “socialist plan” when it was proposed by conservative icon Winston Churchill?
A simple “yes” or “no” would be preferable.
Chris: “Tina, are you forgetting that I proved this claim false no more than a few weeks ago? The founders supported more than one piece of legislation which absolutely DID force citizens to buy a specific product (guns, healthcare).”
Marginally true. The government has forced citizens to participate in a government program when they work (MCare SS) and they forced a particular group of people to be covered (healthcare for ships crew) but they have not forced all citizens to purchasde a product. My point is simply that this is unprecedented and saying so is not ridiculous in any way.
“For instance, you referred to Libby’s idea of a single payer system as a ‘socialist plan.'”
And?
Single-payer health care is the financing of health care from a single insurance pool, which in all existing and proposed cases are government run.
Socialism: 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.
Case closed!
“Was this also a “socialist plan” when it was proposed by conservative icon Winston Churchill?”
YES!
“A simple “yes” or “no” would be preferable.”
No Problemo…see above.