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Recent Comments
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Recent NorCal Blogs Posts
the only problem with his scenario is he forgets that the people who really do all that work to provide for others do not get rich – the company bosses get rich without getting their hands dirty.
I read a wonderful book last summer, by Tom Wolfe. “A Man in Full.” It’s a fictional novel with a pretty engrossing story line, about the parallel worlds of a man who owns a giant frozen food company and another man who works in one of his packing plants. And there’s an underlying plot about race that is pretty blunt also. It’s a good book about “class” in general.
Juanita, I don’t want to pick on you but I cannot let this stand without comment: “…he forgets that the people who really do all that work to provide for others do not get rich – the company bosses get rich without getting their hands dirty.”
Juanita this is utter nonesense.
Imagine a baby who must do absolutely NOTHING in his entire life until miraculously at the age of 50 or so he is granted a six figure income plus bonus and bennies and all he is expected to do is play golf for the priviledge. That is the picture you just painted and it is an utter fabrication.
There may be a few people born to wealth that experience something similar to this but most company bosses were not just “lucky”…they worked hard to get where they are. They studied hard in college or started their business from scratch. They paid a lot of dues along the way in lower paying jobs and worked their way up the ladder. They put in extra hours and sacrificed a lot of time with family to get where they are. Many of them started their careers in the business they are in “getting their hands dirty”. Ambition and hard work took them to a higher paying position. The job they do is something few understand and even fewer can do…it takes a lot of knowledge and experience and that’s why they get paid very well.
It was their choice to do life in this way, they don’t need or expect anyones sympathy or understanding but I think they do deserve respect for what they have accomplished and your remarks contain anything but respect.
The people, as you put it, who “do all the work” were hired to do a specific job for a specific wage. The company that gave them this job isn’t a cooperative. If an employee wants to make more money there are several things he can do. He can work harder and ask for a raise, he can invest in his companies stock, he can seek work elsewhere, he can improve his skills or education level, or he can start his own business. This last adventure would teach him a lot about hard work and “getting his hands dirty” but it would also teach him something about heavy responsibility. As CEO of the comnpany it is now his responsibility to make sure his workers have something to do, their checks go out on time, and their taxes are deposited correctly. He gets to wear many hats and do many tasks. He must deal succewssfully with customers, venders, insurance people, employees and the government. He will find himself working extra hours while his employees go out for a beer. On the weekends he may be at work again while the employees go fishing or skiing. They don’t share in any of his headaches or sacrifices. And IF after years of working and srtruggling our entrepreneur manages to make a good profit he deserve to keep all of it. It came from his investment of time, sweat, tears, money, responsibility, and sacrifice. He made good on his agreements with his employees to pay them for their contribution of labor. He owes them nothing else.
Companies do a lot for their employees. They often provide or offer opportunities such as health care, 401K plans, workers comp, bonuses, picnics, holiday parties and other perks. Employees are granted time off: vacation time, sick leave, maternity leave, grief leave, take your pet to the doic leave, pick up my kid early at school cuz she’s sick leave, and holiday time off…all of which has a monetary value and benefit rarely counted or appreciated by employees.
“It’s a good book about “class” in general.”
What you describe is a fictional scenario that may happen on rare occassions but is NOT the average experience in America today. It does feed class envy attitudes and the victim mentality…as if the worker was held hostage in chains and was helpless to better his life through his own choices and efforts.
The entire boo hoo, poor me attitudes that seem to be so pervasive in America today are tiring and sad. People are extremely spoiled and expect too much of others and not nearly enough of themselves.
Whatever happened to being grateful for an opportunity and having appreciation for anothers accomplishment and success? Whatever happened to American grit and pride in self accomplishment…and whatever happend to having respect for all work and all choices? Not everyone wants the responsibility and lifestyle that comes with being a highly paid CEO.
Whatever “class” we are in came about because of our own efforts, attitudes and choices. We have no one to blame but ourselves if we are unhappy or envious of what others make.
Jack I think he’s on to something too…he ususally is! The people at PJTV, Pajamas Media are doing a wonderful job.
I would be willing to bet real money that a majority of Tea Party members would consider the 3.5 days a vacation and time well spent with our families. Everything he wants people to do for 3.5 days, I started learning and enjoyed doing at the age of 6. You should shoot this guy an invite to submit something to PS.
LOL the thought of those dirt bags killing and dressing a chicken, that floors me.
On a side note, I heard that the dirt bags are stealing from one another. The irony of that is rich!
“Juanita this is utter nonesense.”
Tina, I don’t know any worker who gets any of the fantasy stuff you are describing. My husband laid floor all over Northern California. He worked for Towne Carpet but they wouldn’t hire unlicensed workers because they don’t even want to pay workman’s comp. Daycare? Hey, come down from Planet Venus Honey.
Meanwhile, maybe you should spend the day driving around with a carpet salesman, or drive up to Lake Almanor with owner Tom Segal while he smoozes rich people into pay $35 a yard for carpet, $2.50 of which goes to the guy who hauls it up there in his own vehicle, drags it into your house, cuts it up in perfect pieces to fit your rooms, and then physically “kicks” it in – that’s right, they have a little device called a “kicker” that grabs the carpet, and then the installer gets down on his hands and knees and kicks the tool, moving the carpet into the edges where he staples it down with his hammer tacker.
The “kicker” was what ripped a hole in my husband’s guts, causing the hernia that placed stress on his appendix, which almost blew up. Did Towne Carpet pay my husband’s hospital bill? No, I did Tina, every dime of it.
so, let me say, you don’t know anything about work or workers, Tina, and I look at every word that comes out of your spoiled little mouth as “utter nonsense” from now on.
You describe the book – never having read it, I’m guessing – as ” a fictional scenario that may happen on rare occassions but is NOT the average experience in America today,” because you’ve never had a job like that, have you? Or known anybody who had a job like that.
And you expect sympathy for your knee surgery? Well, BOO HOO! Give me a break, you whiney little baby. Buck up Tina! And, I’ve known a few people who “needed” knee surgery – my advice is, lose a few pounds! I did, and I didn’t need to check into any kind of “program” to do it.
Tina, I may have missed it but I do not recall you asking for sympathy over your knee surgery. I do hope you are healing up well. Most people today are happy to have a roof over their head and food on the table. Peoples idea of “real life” is a fantasy. The grass is rarely greener wherever people think its greener.
Juanita, I am sorry to hear about your husband and that his boss is an asshole. If I ever need floor coverings I will not go to Towne for it. I think I heard someplace that Libby is a lawyer maybe he/she can suggest actions you can take.
Juanita, please don’t misunderstand. All workers should be treated with respect and if they are not they should do everything in their power to find a different job where they are treated with respect. The best way to eliminate a**hole bosses is to refuse to work for them!
“He worked for Towne Carpet but they wouldn’t hire unlicensed workers because they don’t even want to pay workman’s comp.”
I don’t know the terms under which your husband got his job but if he is an employee his employer is REQUIRED to provide workers comp and post notices about employee rights including the number to call if he thinks he is not being treated right. On the other hand if he is working as an independent contractor he is not an employee, but in business for himnself. In this case he is the boss and it is up to him to pay his workers comp or decide to absorb whatever work injury costs he might suffer himself. There are all kinds of work safety rules that must be posted by employers…KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! Take responsibility for your own well being.
“Daycare? Hey, come down from Planet Venus Honey.”
I didn’t mention daycare specifically but there are big companies that do offer that service for their employees.
Your general attitude (bitterness?) explains alot, however. You apparently threw in the towel and became a victim long ago believing that your future prospects were in the hands of an evil boss…sad.
“Did Towne Carpet pay my husband’s hospital bill? No, I did Tina, every dime of it.”
Towne Carpet did not force you to stay in this job. Why didn’t your husband seek out a different employer or profession long ago? Carpet laying is a tough profession better suited for young men just starting out. Your situation developed because somewhere along the way you and your husband failed to have faith in his ability to retrain and find better employment…you believed you were stuck. It’s a shame so many Americans have been trained and encouraged to have this self defeating attitude.
“so, let me say, you don’t know anything about work or workers, Tina, and I look at every word that comes out of your spoiled little mouth as “utter nonsense” from now on.”
You don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve laid aggregate concrete with my husband…shoveling the rock, pounding the rock, leveling on my hands and knees. I’ve loaded, hauled, and emptied a truckload of big heavy plants in the middle of the night to supply my plant shop and then worked the counter all day the next day. I’ve struggled to survive in real estate in an impossible market where houses sometimes stay on the market for 10 years or more, interest rates were around 20%, down payments were hard to come by, and the town had too many realtors. I got out of the business and went to work for a builder. I’ve manufactured window treatments and then delivered and installed them. I’ve spent hours doing the same tedious production line electronics assembly work and when I finished I also got to clean the toilets and handle the paperwork. Don’t preach to me about hard work sweetie, I’ve known it in spades. (During a lot of that I also had the care of aging parents on my plate)
ATTITUDE IS THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US.
“You describe the book – never having read it, I’m guessing – as ” a fictional scenario that may happen on rare occassions…”
I didn’t critique the book…I commented on YOUR description of the book.
“And you expect sympathy for your knee surgery?”
No…I explained my absense to readers who might wonder about it.
“Well, BOO HOO! Give me a break, you whiney little baby. Buck up Tina!”
Silly woman!
“And, I’ve known a few people who “needed” knee surgery – my advice is, lose a few pounds!”
Thank you for the support. I have lost weight and did it long before I needed knee surgery. As it happens, my knee replacement surgery was the result of a joint destroying disease, not excessive pounds. I also paid my insurance and will cover additional costs myself.
“I did, and I didn’t need to check into any kind of “program” to do it.”
I haven’t checked in to any program to lose weight. Where did you get the idea that I did?
I am, per my doctors orders, rehabing the knee so that his efforts to reconstruct and replace the joint won’t go to waste.
By the way, rehab requires pressing through pain, a little dedication and hard work, sacrifice of time, inconvenience and cooperation from my spouse since it’s illegal to drive, and most of all…a positive, thankful attitude. You might try it sometime.
Toby thanks for the support for both me and Juanita.
I am frustrated that so many Americans in this land of the free are basically victims and are content to let resentment of others rule their lives. People aren’t stuck in lousy jobs because others have managed to become successful.
I’ll bet Juanita and her husband had a lot more going for them than they realize. They certainly seem not to be aware of options and rights that could have made their situation better. I could have remained silent but I think it’s important to try to get people to begin to examine their options and attitudes and encourage them to look beyond what they believe is possible to what can become possible with a change of attitude and a little effort. Most of us are our own worse enemies.
I’m also tired of the blanket bashing of those who make and have made everthing possible. They built America..our universities, hospitals, labs, museums, and they provide energy, food, shelter, jobs, gadgets, tools, toys, entertainment in abundance. And Americans have no respect for what that has meant in their lives. (Think third world existence…scraping for food, unsanitary conditions, no opportunity to be educated or find a decent job).
Ahhh well, hating and being covetous of the rich is an easy way to live. I suppose it will always be so.
Tina, you didn’t pay for your knee surgery, you paid about 10 percent of the total bill. Your insurance company paid less than that. The remainder of your bill was left to the hospital. I suspect the hospital counts this unpaid portion as a loss. Do the taxpayers pick up the bill? Well, when you consider that hospitals operate at “non-profits,” regardless of the salaries involved, and pay no taxes, I’d say the taxpayers were picking up some slack somewhere along the line.
I quit buying insurance when I realized, the only winners are the insurance company shareholders and the sickies and whiners. People like me go on paying our premiums without making claims because we stay healthy. And when we do get sick, we take care of ourselves. When I realized, my policy didn’t cover anything, had a huge deductible, I realized, I’m just fodder for the share holders and people like you who go to the doctor for every little hang nail.
I’m bitter alright, because if I tasted any better, people like you would keep on eating until there was nothing left. I didn’t say I don’t have plenty going for me – I’m just tired of paying for your stuff too, Babe.
Tina: “The best way to eliminate a**hole bosses is to refuse to work for them!”
Isn’t she cute?
Her experience of America is so uplifting!
At last count, there were 14 million people in this country looking for a sh%*#hole to work for. But alas, some illegal has beat them to it.
Geez.
Juanita: “You didn’t pay for your knee surgery, you paid about 10 percent of the total bill.”
Twenty persent is more like it and a very high premium on my insurance (nonprofit company) for many years. I’ve paid my own insurance premiums (and those of my employees) for twenty three years. Before that my husband and I paid for an insurance policy for the family. This was what was available to me and I felt it important in case of emergency even though for many of those years we rarely used it. I also couldn’t easily afford it but did without other things because I knew a big bill would be devistating to the family.
This used to be the purpose of insurance. People paid their own office visits and primary care and insurance kicked in for catastrophic injuries and episodes. I’d gladly have that back but regardless your attitude I’m not in charge.
My nonprofit insurance company guarantees the hospital a certain amount of business. They make a business deal together. You are right, it isn’t the same amount as the uninsured (you) pay but that’s because you, as an individual, cannot guarantee the hospital the same level of business. (It is also because you, as an individual decided not to buy insurance.)
I pay a lot more more than Apple Computer for components for my product. that’s because I can’t buy parts in the same huge lots that Apple can. People who can deliver more expect a better price break.
“I realized, I’m just fodder for the share holders and people like you who go to the doctor for every little hang nail.”
My God you assume a lot. I hate going to the doctor, avoid it whenever I can. Grew up in a family where you only went to the doctor when you were half dead.
You made a business decision that made sense to you when you decided to giove up insurance because you were simply “fodder” and that was your choice. We actually are in agreement on one point. I should be able to buy insurance that makes sense for me. I don’t need maternity coverage, I can pay for massage and other optional therapies myself and given a better system i’d glsadly pay for office visits and simple procedures.
Progressives and people who don’t really understand business think everything should be covered and free. That attitude has helped to break the system because politicians, in order to win votes, write laws to prevent competition and protect insurance companies who donate to them. As a result I can’t shop for an insurance company that will cover me for the big things and allow me to pay for the everday things.
If we want lower costs and greater choice in healthcare for everyone there are a number of ways to accomplish it…none of which involve government intervention.
Costs have skyrocketed since Medicare was established and it is Medicare/Medicade that pays very poorly to both doctors and hospitals. People like you are hit hardest and that is flat out wrong. It is also why most people prefer to have insurance. In reality we all pay because our healthcre is more expensive in general, doctors are becoming discouraged and fewer people are willing to become doctors.
By the way, profit is not a four letter word. Profit is what hospitals (or companies) use to buy new equipment, hire new people, create a new childrens wing, and plan for the future. Profits are what allows us to improve and get better…to offer more.
“I’m bitter alright, because if I tasted any better, people like you would keep on eating until there was nothing left.”
I haven’t taken a damn thing from you. I made one choice and you made another. If anyone has ripped you (and me) off it is our central planning style of government. As we have seen in the housing crisis/financial melt down government doesn’t know how to do business. It also can’t run healthcare. Government doesn’t have to weigh the costs against profits. They don’t have to use caution or be prudent. They throw money around as if it grows on trees. They enjoy playing Santa but they don’t make anything work. Everything they do operates at low efficiency…think about your last experience with the DMV, the IRS, the Post Office, the SS office.
“I didn’t say I don’t have plenty going for me – I’m just tired of paying for your stuff too, Babe.”
Juanita you are really something. If you’re suggesting that it’s my fault you had to pay for your family members hospital bill you have forgotten the business decision you made. YOU chose not to be fodder. If it’s something else then you will just have to explain this absurd statement.
I honestly thik I think more of your capability and potential than you do. By the way, I don’t blame you for the bitterness. I don’t know how old you are but I can tell you that my generation, and those that have followed, have screwed up what used to be a very workable system!
We all have a bitter pill to swallow.
“I haven’t taken a damn thing from you.”
Tina, the Harvard Medical School published some research awhile back about the degree to which the nation’s “insured” are subsidized by tax dollars. You need to go find that thing and read it, at least a summary of it. I’m afraid Juanita and I have both subsidized your knee.
And your failure to face this is, among other things, going to bring this country down.
Libby: “Tina, the Harvard Medical School published some research awhile back about the degree to which the nation’s “insured” are subsidized by tax dollars.”
You didn’t bother to inform our readers about these subsidies but if true that could easily be fixed except for resistance by Democrats to change the system. Republicans have called for the elimination of subsidies.
If the Harvard Medical School was telling the whole truth, and not just schilling for Obamacare, they would have revealed that governemnt entitlement programs are the BIGGEST drain requiring sibsidies from both individual and private insurance citizens.
“I’m afraid Juanita and I have both subsidized your knee.”
Democrats (you) have introduced, expanded and supported government involvement and big entitlement programs. You cheer them on mindlessly seeking fairness or looking for a free lunch.
Government involvement in health care makes it necessary for both private citizens and the privately insured to subsidize Medicare and Medicaid:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/does_medicare_pay_below_cost_w.html
http://www.healthbeatblog.com/2009/08/does-medicare-underpay-hospitals-.html
http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/Medicare/27430
The following is an old paper (2000). The problems suggested here have gotten worse since then.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Lecture/How-Medicare-Paperwork-Abuses
The problem is government entitlement programs. The problem is the large bureaucratic, red tape that government programs inevitably impose and the high cost of compliance that goes along with it. Additionally, across the country, the high cost of frivolous lawsuits and the high insurance premiums that hospitals and doctors must pay because of them add to the high cost of healthcare.
Libby you and your ilk demand more of this broken system and then have the utter gall to accuse someone, me, who has responsibly acquired and paid for insurance, deductibles, and co-pays when in fact you have only yourselves to blame for the conditions we all must live under.
I guess its easier to blame me but it sure isnt smart.