Submitted in comments by Princess
The discussion about hate crimes continues. If you have concerns you should read the article, “The Story of a Suicide,” by Jan Parker in The New Yorker.
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I think hate crime legislation is moronic. Crime is crime is crime. You want stuff to change come down hard on all of it not just some of it.
I’m glad to see this getting more attention because it is shocking that rapists and child molesters don’t get 10 years in jail but this stupid kid who made a big mistake is facing a decade in prison. What is really scary about this is how much of their internet use was easy to trace and read. They were able to piece together many conversations that these kids had. It is very scary how much privacy we don’t have.
This Ravi kid deserves punishment, but 10 years? Ridiculous.
I’m not trying to sound like a paranoid freak, but the Patriot Act shredded the constitution. We have got to stop supporting politicians just because there is an “R” behind their name. Bush was not a Republican, but we were told to support him and “respect the office” no matter what. Now “D” is in charge and it has only gotten worse. Much worse.
I could be wrong but didn’t this bull $hit get signed into law in 2009 by Obama a socialist Democrat?
Yes he did Toby: On October 28, 2009, President Barack Obama signed hate crimes legislation into law.
In my search I also discovered that Rick Perry signed similar legislation in Texas.
I don’t understand the question in the headline of this article. When people are prosecuted for hate crimes, they are not prosecuted for “thoughts,” they are prosecuted for actions and the motives behind them. Just like every other crime. Crimes of passion are treated differently than premeditated crimes. Conspiracy will get you added jail time. Why shouldn’t we consider whether a person is motivated by hatred toward a certain class of people when sentencing them? If they are motivated by prejudice than they are likely to strike again at other members of the hated group.
In another article, I believe Tina mentioned that hate crime laws give people “special rights.” But this isn’t true. Under all existing hate crime laws, everyone is protected equally from being targeted for their race, religion, and other relevant factors. I do wonder if there has been a problem with enforcing these laws equally, but I don’t think that’s a reason to do away with the laws themselves.
I haven’t had time to read the full article yet. I don’t know what the facts are in this case but even without knowing it still struck me that this victim may have already been a very troubled young man. He may have been motivated by many different things. I have no desire to excuse or minimize what Ravi did but the case certainly does give me pause.
People commit suicide every day and for various reasons. I imagine some of them may even feel hated by family, friends or the communitybat large. How can we prosecute based on thoughts and feelings? To me it just doesn’t make sense.
One case often cited as evidence of the need for a hate crimes law was the James Byrd case. Mr. Byrd was dragged behind a truck in Texas for three miles. One of his killers had evidence of hate, a racist tattoo, right on his arm. He received the death penalty for his egregious, hideous, and yes hateful, crime. Was it the man’s hatred for blacks that made this a horrible crime worthy of the death penalty or was it the very nature of the murderous act? Would the severity of the crime be less if the victim was white? How much stronger could the murderers sentence have been because of the added emotion? This crime inspired the Texas hate crime law that Perry signed into law.
The Mathew Sheppard case that prompted the national hate crimes law was revealed by abc’s 20/20 to have been motivated by money and drugs rather than hate.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=277685&page=1
I can’t help wondering, had Mathew Sheppard lived what would the sentences have been? The media and the LGBT community stirred up a lot of anger, resentment and … dare we say it, desire for revenge or even hate? Robbery and drugs are not what is remembered about the case…hate is. The law even bears Mathew Sheppard’s name.
Is justice served when angry groups can stir up emotions, influence sentiment, and fog the historical record?
Chris: “…they are prosecuted for actions and the motives behind them. Just like every other crime.”
This case is interesting because the person who actually took action to end a life was the suicide victim. His own thoughts led him to make a horrible choice.
The pressumed perpetrator had no intention of murder as far as we know. This young man’s cruel intention (ignorantly, thoughtlessly, stupidly) was more likely to embarrass or humuliate or even more stupidly to incite giddy guffaws from his equally clueless friends.
And for this crime he could recieve ten years? How far do we go with this?
I could make a very good argument that the public at large is guilty in this case. We have raised our kids on group identity and special rights. Is it any wonder they are confused, resentful, or feel entitled. We have failed to teach respect out of basic humanity. We have failed to teach equality based on the fact that we are all human and are given rights by a higher power. We have muddied the waters with respect to rights. Adults as well as children think just about anything is ntheir right. The entertainment community has been indulged to the max as it push the envelope to new and ever more ridiculous lows. Basic values of decency are regularly laughed at as old fashioned. We don’t even bother in many circles to value life itself!
Sorry Chris I went off on a tangent…have I answered the question or am I in for another night of debate about the title I hurredly put together in order to give you something to converse about on what I knew would be a very busy personal day?
This conviction will surely be overturned, as it should be. Even for you politically correct people who support special victims laws, the facts simply do not support the charge. If you ask the average person on the street, they will know three things about this event:
1. Ravi hated gays–which he did not.
2. Ravi put the video of the victim out on the internet–which he did not.
3. The internet video drove the gay kid to suicide–which it did not.
Kinda of a side note. When there is love instead of hate.
Japan says thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=SS-sWdAQsYg&vq=medium
Peggy thanks for sharing that incredible video. I don’t consider it a side not at all. In fact it is exactly on point.
America and the rest of the free world, regardless race or creed, stand on freedom, the rule of law, and morality that accepts the concept of good and evil. Our motivation and intent is to stand for good over evil in the world. Because we do this we have the opportunity to rescue and be charitable beyond belief.
The left is motivated by moral equivalency, thus Saddam Husein is no different from GWB. Terrorist activity is no different from war waged to liberate the innocent and destroy those who commit evil acts for absolute power. Within this context GWB is declared evil and Obama is supported and forgiven for waging war.
Love is a context that includes acts that are difficult as well as those that are easy. We show our kids we love them with hugs and with discipline. Depending on what they do the discipline or reward will be slight or great. If by the time they reach adulthood they have become criminal, turning them over to authorities would be a loving act…if drug addicted the loving act would be sending them to rehab. If, God forbid, they become murderers, shielding them from the consequence, or excusing the behavior and helping them to escape would be a weak act born of moral equivalent thinking.
Our military is made up of fine men and women who have seen evil up close and personal. they deserve better than what our media has given them. Their accomplishments, their sacrafice has been sacrificed for politics…makes me sick. At a time when they are being asked to do more funding and medical are cut…makes me sick.
I could go on forever but what’s the use. the leftist propaganda machine works. Our moral grounding has been savaged. Evil will not go away because we have lost our backbone and resolve or the clarity needed to act decisively.
Youre right Tina it was very much on point. I was headed out the door and should have taken the time to write something more appropriate. The video shows just how much can be accomplished when there is love and respect for others without regard for race, etc. Its all about doing the right thing.
I get very discouraged when I see how the world we now live in has changed so much from the world I grew up in, and the direction it seems to be headed that my grandkids will live in. Sure there were evil people that did horrible things, but they were the exceptions. Now the behavior of individuals has grown into groups who by mob force are attacking people and destroying property with the support of our elected representatives. The churchs teachings have not only been removed from our schools and public places even our military soldiers are no longer allowed to have a prayer said at their funeral and burial. This is outrageous. These men and women died for the very freedoms they are being denied.
The Obama administration continues to try to prevent the word God from being used at the funerals of our heroes, said. Rep. John Culberson (R-Texas).
It makes my skin crawl that liberals are attempting to drive prayer out of a funeral ceremony for our heroes, Culberson said. Were going to fix this so that no Obama liberal bureaucrat will interfere with the funeral of a hero.
Put simply, VA policy puts the wishes of the veterans family above all else on the day it matters most the day they pay their final respects to their loved ones, Taylor said. “Out of respect for the families, VAs policy exists to prevent anyone from disrespecting or interfering with a veterans private committal service.
Controversy first surfaced nationally at the cemetery during a Memorial Day event when a Houston pastor was ordered by the VA to remove the name of Jesus from his prayer.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/26/texas-lawmaker-calls-for-congressional-probe-into-ban-christian-prayers-at/#ixzz1phsxp4J2
Couldnt find if hearings were held and if this issue was resolved.
History has repeated itself over and over with insane leaders like Stalin, Hitler, and Mao yet we seem to be going down that path again in countries all over the world. Leaders that will starve their people while the elite power players live in luxury and even take more vacations in three years than most hard working people do in their adult life time. Did we not learn from the past or were the history books changed so our children and their parents do not understand the path we may be on?
These two videos are shocking. Are they about something we need to be aware of or just a product of fear mongers? Better to be safe or sorry? Informed or uninformed believing this could never happen here?
Obama Kids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=c6D_W6nscy0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdPSqL9_mfM&skipcontrinter=1
Every entitlement society has a cost. Its paid for with the lose of freedom. Nothing is free!!
Has he been sentenced?