by Jack Lee
Let the rioting begin it’s now an official race issue because Al Sharpton is on the scene! And some how, some way, you just know this will get around to a liberal attack on the 2nd amendment.
President Obama poured a little racial gasoline on the flames yesterday when he said, “I can only imagine what these parents are going through,” the president said, adding that he couldn’t help but think about his daughters. “I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this. “My main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin,” he added. “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.” At least he didn’t call the cops stupid…this time.
If you follow the responses of the mainstream media and all the outrage you might think this was the most horrific crime committed all year. It wasn’t even close. In terms of blatant violence and clear cut murder, a guy in Oklahoma murdered an elderly couple about the same time, but that’s not news. Nobody is protesting because the killer was black and the old folks were white. The President isn’t saying a thing about it and to my knowledge Al Sharpton didn’t even send his condolences! Why not? Well, this is a common “dog bites man” story unlike the Trayvon’s Martin case. There’s nothing to be gained by exploiting the Oklahoma murders, but there’s a little something for a whole lot of folks in the Trayvon Martin case.
I believe Trayvon’s parents have the only legitimate beef here, but until the investigation is concluded they should shut up. Nobody, not even the parents, should be jumping to conclusions. Lets all just stay calm and see where the investigation goes. It might be a case of murder or it might be self defense, but until we have the facts nobody should assume anything. As for the race-baiters, civil agitators and media whores, they have turned this tragedy into a circus and for that they should be ashamed. If you feel a need to protest and vent – they’re a target worthy of your rage. Go protest those bums, maybe I’ll join you!
Jack you nailed it. This case deserves a full investigation and the parents deserve to know exactly what happened not what people fear happened and not what people speculate happened.
It really bugs me that race is the first thing that pops up. Why? When black on white crime, black on oriental crime, or black on Hispanic crime occurs race doesn’t become an immediate issue, in fact it’s never considered is it. And if not, why not?
The fact is a human being had died. Fanning racial flames before an investigation has been made creates resentment that will last even if race was not an issue and that leads to suspicion and division.
And guess what Mr President…I don’t want my grandchildren to be resented by blacks because they happen to be white either!
Jack, Tina, have you considered the possibility that the black community may have valid reason to think that this shooting was racially motivated?
You are right that we don’t know all the facts yet. Here’s what we do know:
Trayvon Martin was visiting his father’s fiancee in the neighborhood where George Zimmerman lived. When Zimmerman, a Latino man and neighborhood watch captain, saw Martin, he called the police and reported that he thought Martin looked suspicious and that he might be on drugs.
The police explicitly told Zimmerman not to follow Martin, but Zimmerman disobeyed and did so anyway. He also took his gun with him. This was in violation of the local Neighborhood Watch manual, which states, it should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers, and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles.
Neighbors heard a scuffle, a cry for help, and then a gun shot. Zimmerman was found bleeding from the back of the head and he had a bloody nose. Martin was found dead on the ground.
Pleading self-defense, Zimmerman was not arrested, and still has not been arrested after almost a month.
No drugs were found in Martin’s system. He also did not possess any weapons. He was only carrying skittles and an iced tea.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/trayvon-martin-case-timeline-of-events/
Now, Tina is right that of course there needs to be a full investigation into this incident. That’s one of the primary demands of the protesters. Often incidents like this are NOT fully investigated. You can mock the outrage of protesters all you want, but without their efforts this case might have been completely dropped already.
It is obvious from these facts that Martin acted wrongly and stupidly, and that his actions resulted in the needless death of a teenager. Even if Martin started a fight with Zimmerman, it was only after Zimmerman had followed the boy and approached him by getting out of his vehicle, after the police had told him not to. Last I checked, you are not allowed to shoot someone in a fist fight, even if you are attacked first. Or is that exactly what Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” laws allow? Jack says that this event will cause an “attack on the second amendment,” but “Stand Your Ground” laws seem to go far beyond the second amendment and into legalized murder. Other cases indicate that they need to be changed as well:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/23/trayvon-martin-other-stand-your-ground-cases-from-florida-to-north-carolina.html
I understand that you want people to know all the facts before they make a judgment about Zimmerman. Zimmerman certainly did not wait to have all of the facts before he reported Martin as suspicious, assumed he was on drugs, followed him with a gun, got out of his vehicle, and approached him, all in direct defiance of the police, the neighborhood watch manual, and simple common sense. Zimmerman did not consider all of the facts before he ended this young man’s life. At the very least he should be found guilty of some kind of criminal negligence. His actions are directly responsible for the death of this young unarmed man, of that there can be no doubt.
I find it hard to see how you can condemn the protesters for feeling the way they do. I don’t know for sure whether this attack was racially motivated, but cases like these are exactly why the phrase “walking while black” was invented. It seems that the only reason Zimmerman was suspicious of Martin is that he was black, wearing a hoodie, and “in the wrong neighborhood.” This doesn’t make him a klansmen; how many times have people had the same thoughts about black people walking down their streets? Zimmerman may get along with most black people perfectly fine. That doesn’t mean the racial stereotype of black criminal youths didn’t influence his insane and irresponsible decisions in this matter. Such stereotypes are a leftover aspect of institutionalized racism. They are the subtle types of racism that are still pervasive today. But when someone allows themselves to act so irresponsibly and wrongly due to their beliefs in these stereotypes, as Zimmerman may have, then this type of racism explodes into something not so subtle, and not so harmless. Of course people are outraged.
I’ll end with a quote from one of our greatest poets:
“If you can’t speak out against this kind of thing, a crime that’s so unjust,
Your eyes are filled with dead men’s dirt, your mind is filled with dust.
Your arms and legs they must be in shackles and chains, and your blood it must refuse to flow,
For you let this human race fall down so God-awful low!”
–Bob Dylan, “The Death of Emmett Till”
I hate to say this but the police seem to have failed at investigating this in every way. A guy is killed and the shooter is not even arrested. He was allowed to leave and keep his gun. The sponsor of this bill is saying today that he did not intend the bill to include this kind of shooting. I’m all for defending our homes, but it sure seems to me like this guy chased this kid down. And maybe I’m just really sensitive about this because I have two teenagers, they wear hoodies and they are white, but I still feel like this could have been them.
I don’t think this is a case of racism, it is a case of stupidity, and the cops failed. If they had done their jobs we wouldn’t even be talking about this. Again, I am very upset about this because I imagine if it was my kid shot while walking home from the store at night in his hooded sweatshirt, but my kid would have run away from a guy chasing him. This kid was in the morgue for at least a day before they even knew who he was. His parents had reported him missing and the cops could not even be bothered to check his cell phone and call numbers on it to find out who he was.
Sharpton and now Obama have all decided to ramp up the race war, but the reason this is such a big deal is a lot of us realize it could have been our kids because this idiot decided to protect the neighborhood, and the cops decided to not even investigate. Not (in my opinion) because they are racist but because they are lazy morons.
I have read so much about this and I’ve lost the link, but I read a great piece that lays out what a neighborhood watch is supposed to be and how it is a violation to carry a weapon and how if you carry a weapon you can be prosecuted. Of course supposedly this neighborhood watch wasn’t registered, but Zimmerman was trained so I agree we have to wait for the investigation. But the police chief stepped down, and the new chief is the captain that was in charge of oversight of the investigation in the first place, so I think it will be more idiocy.
Zimmerman deserves to be in jail for murder. He shot and killed a kid. Let a jury decide his guilt. But he does not deserve the hatred he is getting in the press. He was trying to protect his neighborhood from robbers. I think we all know how scary it is to have homes broken into and we aren’t the most rational. Which is why the neighborhood watch policy is to not carry weapons. We don’t always make the best decisions when we are scared.
Precisely Jack. Where is Obama and the lame stream when black on black crime or black on (insert any other race or ethnic group here)occurs?
Princess, you say the police seem to have failed in every way – they should have arrested the shooter. Are you familiar with the term “probable cause”? Police must have probable cause to arrest anyone, even a shooter. I’m not saying there was or wasn’t PC to arrest, only that there are justifiable reasons why a person can shoot someone and not be arrested.
I don’t have all the facts and neither do you, which is why I urged people to not assume too much until we have all the facts. There is no reason to rush to a lynching here, just wait and the whole story will come out.
So far over 1,000,000 people have signed an online petition to arrest this man – that is very troubling.
Pie, most rational people would say Obama is greatly overstepping his bounds and it was totally inappropriate for him to make the comments he did. If the man had a brain and was not obessed with re-election, he would have said, this is a police matter and I do not speculate on the guilt or innocense of people before there is a complete investigation, this is something for the justice system to consider. End of story…but nooooo, he had to do some appeasing.
By the way, it sure didn’t take long for the Grand Idiot, Louis Farrakahn, to start talking about vengeance and how there would be a score to settle. With who? Me, you, the cops, the shooter and who’s going to do it? Some nutcase follower of his? Farrakahn ought to be arrested for inciting violence in a very tense racial situation.
Chris, you are an appeaser, you really are and you make statements like they were fact when they are assumptions. Everytime there is a shooting of black by a cop the assumption is it was police racism or police brutality. How many cop shootings resulted in convictions verses justifiable homicide and in the last 25 years? I’ll bet its 500 to 1 in favor of the cops acting perfectly legal. But, in your world the cops are assumed guilty until proven innocent.
You are now making a lot of assumptions about Zimmerman, but the whole story isn’t out yet – how typical of you and most liberals.
Jack: “Princess, you say the police seem to have failed in every way – they should have arrested the shooter. Are you familiar with the term “probable cause”? Police must have probable cause to arrest anyone, even a shooter. I’m not saying there was or wasn’t PC to arrest, only that there are justifiable reasons why a person can shoot someone and not be arrested.”
Those reasons clearly do not exist here. Martin was unarmed, lying dead on the ground. Zimmerman admitted to shooting him. Zimmerman admitted to following him after the police told him not to, while carrying a weapon. These facts alone are enough to show probable cause to arrest Zimmerman.
“So far over 1,000,000 people have signed an online petition to arrest this man – that is very troubling.”
Why?
“There is no reason to rush to a lynching here”
!!!!!!!!
I can’t even…
Jesus.
Those words from Bob Dylan apply perfectly to you, Jack. “Your eyes are filled with dead men’s dirt, your mind is filled with dust.”
How you could even THINK to use the word “lynching” in the context of protesters who are angry at a man who shot and killed an unarmed black teenager for no reason…how can you possibly be that stupid???
“Farrakahn ought to be arrested for inciting violence in a very tense racial situation.”
And yet the guy WHO ACTUALLY HUNTED DOWN AND SHOT AN UNARMED TEENAGER should NOT be arrested? Are you insane? Seriously, what is wrong with you?
“Chris, you are an appeaser, you really are and you make statements like they were fact when they are assumptions…You are now making a lot of assumptions about Zimmerman…”
Name one. I dare you. Name ONE. Everything I have said here is documented fact.
I admit that I’ve been busy all day and have heard very little about this case but I do have a few observations based on what some of you have said.
Chris: cases like these are exactly why the phrase “walking while black” was invented.
That doesn’t mean the racial stereotype of black criminal youths didn’t influence his insane and irresponsible decisionsSuch stereotypes are a leftover aspect of institutionalized racism.
Interesting that you should use the word “invented” because that is exactly what has happened. I don’t deny that black people and particularly black men have been the targets at times of bigotry and brutality. I do think that the racism angle has been milked for all it’s worth, I think racism has been an excuse to not succeed, AND I think the black community, and particularly black men, have been their own worst enemies.
A myriad of reasons exist that have contributed to the state of the black community, poor teachers and schools, institutionalized welfare hell, broken familes, pursuit of racial identity rather than personhood and place in society, a belief that the black man deserves special rights and considerations, and failures of adult black to keep values alive within the community. There is plenty of responsibility to go around but one group escapes blame. White folks are continually reminded that we are racist and oppressors…I don’t think that has helped at all. In fact I think since most of us are not racist, have nothing to do with racist activities of the past or present, and have been cheer leading for the black man to experience equality and success, the charge is a little tough to take and it’s annoying that the only contribitor NOT taking responsibility (except for Dr. Bill Cosby on occassion and a few others) is the black man.
The black man has created the image that is scary and suspect. He has chosen to applaud and showcase gansta music, garb and language. He has eschewed professional or work appropriate clothing and speech for the language and dress of the brotha in the hood (Okay for casual gatherings but doesn’t always fly at work or school). He has chosen drugs over school and gangs over family. He has chosen to vent his anger over injustice with riots and destruction of property rather than using the justice system…and he has gotten away with it because of his race! (A black mark on PC America) He has made the police an enemy of the hood rather than respecting their authority and cooperating with them. He has chosen to do poorly in school and to drop out of school early. He has chosen to dress for intimidation rather than success…and he has trashed his neighborhood. He has done this decade after decade despite the fact that other black men (and women) have escaped that reality, other black men have chosen to work hard and walk a different path with great success in America. These men are often called Uncle Toms just because they do what makes them successful! And then there’s the alarming statistic that black men are incarcerated in disproportionate numbers.
The following story blames America’s justice system first:
http://elev8.com/news/orethawinston/there-are-more-black-men-in-prison-today-than-were-enslaved-in-1850/
The author goes on to blame the war on drugs…not drug use or sales for this “disenfranchisement”.
Fox news reports a study that found black men survive in prison longer than they do on the streets. What does that say for nthe dangerous communities black men are creating through their own choices?
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/07/15/black-men-survive-longer-in-prison-than-out-study-finds/
For black men the streets are more dangerous…tells you what the streets in those neighborhoods are like. White men die more often in prison? Is that because they are fed differently, are more prone to fatal disease or have weak constitutions? What could it be? How many are killed in race driven fights or murders?
Both Oprah Winfrey and Whoopie Goldberg, if memory serves, made attempts as they achieved success to reach out to the black community and uplift them. Woopie worked with the homeless the Oprah education and they were unable to do much good because of the attitudes and lack of desire or urge to change or do better. But I don’t fault them or the community at large. I fault the general attitude of entitlement, the general attitude that black people aren’t responsible for their own lives and don’t have a chance because they are victims. They have been let down by government programs and used for political gain. This has been fostered and nurtured by black liberal activists and white liberal PC constructs and activism. It has been nurtured by false naratives about what constitutes human value, need and desire.
People have sung the same da*n song about overcoming for decades and the tune never changes. does it not occur to the choir that they should be preaching to themselves? the black community has the power to advance itself through education, religion, strong family values and community participation. there was a short lived drive in the early seventies to do just that. it’s one of the reasons Sesame Street came into being. It was working and slowly the embrace of drugs, the advent of welfare to replace male responsibility and head of household began to take hold. Race baters and activist organizations took themselves, instead of their children and communities, seriously and looked for reasons to exist instead of rolling up their sleeves to make sure their kids got good educations, created businesses and thrived.
I don’t say these things to be heartless or cruel. I say them because I firmly believe the ONLY real hope for the black community is with the black community. They have to take these problems on and solve them themselves. They are the only ones with the power to do so and when they do they will find they no longer have to depend on the white man for a job because black men will have plenty of jobs to offer to not only fellow blacks but to others as well.
This kid has lost his life in part because of the failures of the community at large but also because of the failures of the black community.
Those reasons clearly do not exist here. Martin was unarmed, lying dead on the ground. Zimmerman admitted to shooting him. Zimmerman admitted to following him after the police told him not to, while carrying a weapon. These facts alone are enough to show probable cause to arrest Zimmerman.
Zimmerman just showed up and shot him…nuff said. But then….
Neighbors heard a scuffle, a cry for help, and then a gun shot. Zimmerman was found bleeding from the back of the head and he had a bloody nose. Martin was found dead on the ground. Pleading self-defense, Zimmerman was not arrested, and still has not been arrested Even if Martin started a fight with Zimmerman, it was only after Zimmerman had followed the boy and approached him by getting out of his vehicle
A scuffle, a cry for help…could that cry have been Zimmerman? Zimmerman was found bleeding from the back of the head…was he walking away and the kid struck him with something sharp enough or blunt enough to draw blood? A bloody nose…could he have hit him before he walked away and then struck the back of his head resulting in a call for help, a struggle and a fatal gun shot?
I don’t know. Police are reluctant to say much of anything given the media circus it would create (Has created in the past) and the fact that if a trial should become necessary the public would be unfit for jury duty.
Both the family of Martin and Zimmerman and his family deserve justice. I’m afraid neither will.
Princess: I don’t think this is a case of racism, it is a case of stupidityBut he does not deserve the hatred he is getting in the press. He was trying to protect his neighborhood from robbers. I think we all know how scary it is to have homes broken into
I don’t think it was racism either from what I’ve heard and read (not much). I also think it was very stupid and wrong for this man to follow the boy after making a neighborhood watch report and being told not to follow, especially with the gun. But I can understand the sense that self-defense is needed. He could have observed from a distance with a cell phone ready to call 911. Clearly he is responsible for the incident. What is not clear is exactly what happened.
I’m not ready to condemn the cops or Zimmerman for murder until we have some idea of what happened. Investigations without witnesses can take time. In this charged atmosphere it could take longer and be more difficult.
Only a complete monster would use this event to argue that we should be even MORE afraid of black men.
Jack and Tina, you both disgust me right now.
I have been a bit out of it this week and do not know anything about this story. Was this saintly black child at home minding his own business, doing his homework when the vicious white man busted in and shot him dead? The fact that Obama and the other one have gotten involved tells me their is plenty of bull $hit on both sides of this story to go around.
Chris: “Only a complete monster would use this event to argue that we should be even MORE afraid of black men.”
Only an idiot, or an inexperienced, indoctrinated person would think that is what I am saying.
Chris go right ahead and think of me as a monster, live it up, don that full sanctiomonious jacket, but don’t you dare run from the truth behind my words.
And don’t you dare run from the fact that this poor kid and his family will be used by extreme leftist for political reasons. Protest my ass! This kid will become a poster child for the antigun lobby.
They wouldn’t condiser using this kid for their poster boy, however:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2118785/Shawn-Tyson-said-murdered-James-Cooper-James-Kouzaris-Sarasota-Florida.html
Pay particular attention to the side bar transcript of a phone call made by the accused.
My point Chris is that the underlying problems that helped to create fear and suspicion will not be addressed by emotionally and politically hyping and exploiting this tragic death nor will the family receive the justice and dignity they deserve.
In my opinion if you want to look for monsters you should start with the amoral Marxist activists that have been busily working to remove religion and family from the community and will use this incident to stir up hatred and anger.
Another case where there would be no poster boy for civil rights and no marches for justice is referenced in this American Thinker article:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/03/what_if_trayvon_had_been_white_and_the_shooter_black.html
The article goes on to remind us all of an inconvenient truth:
This crap cannot be tolerated by anyone who wants equality for all and for justice to be blind! It won’t stop if “monsters” like Jack and me shut up and sit down out of fear or the need to fit in.
He was walking back to his dad’s house in a gated community after he went to the store where he bought Arizona iced tea and skittles.
The problem is not that the kid was black or the shooter was Hispanic. The problem is the police did not collect any evidence (supposedly the shooter had a wet shirt and a broken nose). There are no pictures and there was no investigation. They released the guy without taking his gun or even testing him for drugs or alcohol.
The whole thing fails basic law enforcement procedures.
I do not get that they are saying that in their posts. I think we all bring our own issues to events like these. I am totally traumatized over it and despair that it could have been my kids that this happened to because they wear hoodies and walk home from the store in the dark sometimes.
Other people identify with this story for their own reasons.
Why can’t we just express our thoughts on things without jumping to hysterical extrapolations? Isn’t the purpose of these blogs to learn from each other?
We are on the same page here, Jack. Obama is doing what he does best — pandering. It looks like Chris is about to blow a gasket in lunatic-ville. He needs a pressure relief valve, or a life, or some professional help.
At some point he wasn’t walking he was loitering and starring at apartments. This is what bothered Zimmerman and its what prompted him to call the police as evidence to date has indicated . Police allegedly observed that the caller did in fact have a bloody nose and a bump on the back of his head and he expressed a complaint of pain.
He said the teenager attacked him and started swinging on him. That much is known.
Do we know if there were pictures taken? Do we know what other witnesses said? Do we know if the cops checked over Zimmerman? Do we have a medical report on Zimmerman? Do we know what the criminal history is on the kid? Do we know if he was combative? Do we know if he ever had a brush with the law? Do we have a tox report on the teen?
We know all this about Zimmerman, I’m just not sure about the tox report.
Seems like there is a lot we do not know yet…it will come out, but we should let the police concluded their investigation before we execute Mr. Zimmerman.
I realized the New Black Panthers do not need to wait, they have already convicted the man and just need to rush to an execution. They are offering a $10K for the “capture” (kidnapping) of Mr. Zimmerman so they can snuff him.
Maybe some of our readers who know for a fact the man is guilty beyond any reasonable double would like to cash in on this reward money? Personally, I think I would hold off and wait for a disposition, but that’s just me.
Chris…tell me what I said that “disgusted” you so much?
What could it possibly be?
Are you disgusted that I suggested we should wait until all the facts are in before reaching a conclusion of guilt or innocence? Are you disgusted that called Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton race baiters and agitators? Are you upset that I said the media had turned this event into a circus? Please tell me what has you sooooo upset with me Chris? -Jack
PS Chris…just curious, but are you at all “disgusted” with Rev. Al or Louie F for inserting themselves into this situation and making it worse? You know Louie is saying that this is going to turn into a revenge thing..heads are going to roll? For the new Black Panthers, it already has. Doesn’t that vigilante junk bother your acute sensibilities of justice in the slightest or is only us monsters (me and Tina) that has you so upset?
Chris said, “”There is no reason to rush to a lynching here” !!!!!!!! I can’t even… Jesus. Those words from Bob Dylan apply perfectly to you, Jack. “Your eyes are filled with dead men’s dirt, your mind is filled with dust.” How you could even THINK to use the word “lynching” in the context of protesters who are angry at a man who shot and killed an unarmed black teenager for no reason…how can you possibly be that stupid???” It’s not me thats being stupid CHRIS…
I used the word lynching here because that’s what a lot of people are calling for, but he’s also being symbolically lynched by those who have found him guilty already. Do you deny the Black Panthers offered a reward for the man’s capture? Do you deny that Louie F. is inciting people to do violence and get some revenge? Chris you are getting all pissy over my word “lynching” when it is absolutely on target. Now that’s stupid, but I won’t call you stupid only what you are doing is.
Thanks Pie…lol
Sure as hell the wheels will fall off this thing but the guy will be dead by then and when the facts do appear, the MSM will ignore them and push on to Obama’s next distraction. A distraction is all this is, some kid is dead and we will have violence in the streets all to distract people from what Obama is doing and what he has done.
“In terms of blatant violence and clear cut murder, a guy in Oklahoma murdered an elderly couple about the same time, but that’s not news.”
That would be because the alleged Oklahoma perptrator is arrested and charged, which is not the case in Florida. You do consistently miss the point.
I marvel.
Tina:
“Only an idiot, or an inexperienced, indoctrinated person would think that is what I am saying.”
Tina, both you and Jack have chosen to focus on the “failures of the black community” when talking about this case, rather than on the actual shooter. You have both emphasized violent statements from Louis Farrakhan and the Black Panthers, statements which I whole-heartedly condemn, but which are not equivalent to actually following and shooting an unarmed minor. Whether you intend to or not, you ARE using the killing of a black teenager to spread the message that black people pose a danger to whites. That is reprehensible considering the circumstances.
So is this statement:
“This kid has lost his life in part because of the failures of the community at large but also because of the failures of the black community.”
Not only does this statement lack any factual basis, it is also morally repugnant. The black community did not pull the trigger–George Zimmerman did. I agree that the black community has played a role in perpetuating stereotypes about themselves, but that does not make them responsible for George Zimmerman buying into that stereotype to such a degree that he thought it appropriate to follow a black teenager and shoot him to death.
But your statement also makes no sense for another reason. If you say that the black community is responsible for Trayvon’s death, then you are also, perhaps inadvertently, admitting that you think George Zimmerman was motivated by Trayvon’s race. But I thought you didn’t feel there was enough information to draw that conclusion? You can’t have it both ways. You can’t simultaneously believe Goerge Zimmerman didn’t kill Trayvon because he was black, and also believe that the black community is at fault for self-perpetuating stereotypes that made Trayvon look like a threat. The two are mutually exclusive.
You also said:
“The black man has created the image that is scary and suspect…and he has gotten away with it because of his race! (A black mark on PC America)”
Clearly, this is nonsense, and you prove that it is nonsense a few sentences after this, when you talk about the high incarceration rate of African-Americans. How is mass incarceration a sign that black people have “gotten away with” anything? Clearly, they haven’t. Your arguments are completely inconsistent with themselves.
The American Thinker article you link to is also abhorrent. To call civil rights cases “reverse lynch mobs,” along with comparing Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to people who used to “drag black suspects out of jail and lynch them in the streets,” is so disgusting, inappropriate and non-factual that it deserves no further comment. It should not be necessary to point out how false and over the top this false moral equivalence is. And yet it was this statement that you felt worthy of describing as an “inconvenient truth.” That’s plain crazy.
Princess: “The problem is not that the kid was black or the shooter was Hispanic. The problem is the police did not collect any evidence (supposedly the shooter had a wet shirt and a broken nose). There are no pictures and there was no investigation. They released the guy without taking his gun or even testing him for drugs or alcohol.”
Princess, do you think it’s at least possible that the race of the victim might have something to do with why this case was handled the way it was, or why Zimmerman acted the way he did in the first place?
I am not saying that anyone involved is a white-hood-wearing klansmen. Too often when we talk about racism in this country, people interpret it to mean only people who are consciously and viciously hateful of a certain segment of the population. That’s not how racism always works.
“I am totally traumatized over it and despair that it could have been my kids that this happened to because they wear hoodies and walk home from the store in the dark sometimes.”
I share your concern, Princess, but I also think that people are significantly less likely to be suspicious of white kids in hoodies than black kids in hoodies. I wear a hoodie sometimes too, and as far as I know I don’t project a very suspicious vibe. I think that’s a part of white privilege.
When I ask myself the question, “Would Zimmerman have been as likely to do this if Martin was white?” I have a hard time thinking the answer is “yes.” But we may never know for sure.
I think you are right to worry about your own kids, but there is a reason for the phrase “walking while black” and I think this case shows that this reason is a valid one. People are generally more suspicious of black youths than white youths. That doesn’t necessarily make them bad people. Most of us are influenced by stereotypes in some way, they are so pervasive. But most of us do not act on them in such extreme ways. When incidents like this happen, I don’t think we can totally dismiss the possibility that racial stereotypes played a role. It’s important that we at least consider them and talk about what could have led someone to do something like this, and get away with it.
Chris it was actually you who prompted my remarks about the “failures of the black community” when you wrote: “Tina, have you considered the possibility that the black community may have valid reason to think that this shooting was racially motivated?” Here’s another that illustrates an inability to look at every aspect that might be pertenant: “Only a complete monster would use this event to argue that we should be even MORE afraid of black men.” Then you wrote: “Whether you intend to or not, you ARE using the killing of a black teenager to spread the message that black people pose a danger to whites. That is reprehensible considering the circumstances.”
I can only imagine from where in your PC oriented mind these assumptions follow. I made no argument that “we” should be more afraid. I made the argument that acceptance of gansta rap and the dress associated with gangs contributed to the events that took place. I argued that promotion, glorification, participation, and acceptance of dangerous bad behaviors set this boy up to become a target. Like it or not Chris this is truth and it has nothing to do with race…plenty of white people have done the same.
I actually ignored your youthful condescending suggestion that Jack or I would not be aware of considerations of the black community on purpose. If I support the civil rights laws this nation has passed then I also must stand in full support of treating every citizen equally. It’s time we acted like we are all equal. I am looking at every aspect of this case and if I am saying anything it is that if we don’t want more blood and death then we had better look at our values and the things we promote in our communities. I would hope something good could come out of this rather than the same old racial crap that only serves to further division and demean citizens of every race.
“Not only does this statement lack any factual basis, it is also morally repugnant.”
So…you think that black folk have always raised their kids to be gansters, pushers, drug addicts, and criminals? You think black people have always had broken families and raised their kids to hate whitey and disrespect authority? You think that black people have always raised their kids to drop out of school and hang out on street corners? Well you would be wrong! there was a time when almost all black people (almost all people in America) raised their kids to get a good education, go to church, be well mannered, dress appropriately for success, and respect authority. Since 1965 that has been thrown out the window and replaced by the culture of decadence and godlessness. Many things have contributed to this sad state across all ethnicities but it has affected the black commuinity hardest. it is a reality that we had better start talking about if we hope to reverse it and save more young men like Trayvon Martin.
“I agree that the black community has played a role in perpetuating stereotypes about themselves, but that does not make them responsible for George Zimmerman buying into that stereotype to such a degree that he thought it appropriate to follow a black teenager and shoot him to death.”
A. I did not say they were guilty or pulled the trigger.
B. Responsibility is acknowledgement of cause…this circumstance is part of the cause of what happened. If you are interested in seeing to it that this doesn’t happen again then you should be interested in addressing all of the contributing factors.
C. Your assumption about Zimmerman is irresponsible in that it lacks factual information as to his motive for taking the gun with him. I would say fear and self preservation or posssible need to protect another could just as easily have been the motive.
D. Your characterization of what happened is not reflective of what happened. Zimmerman, according to witnesses did not just take out the gun and shoot Martin in cold blood.
“…then you are also, perhaps inadvertently, admitting that you think George Zimmerman was motivated by Trayvon’s race.”
Ridiculous. Kids of every race wear hoodies. Hoodies are a gangta mode of dress…glorified in music, videos, and in movies is it not? (You lefties crack me up…scream and rail about Joe Camel seliing deadly cigarettes to kids but when it comes to the gansta brand not a peep). It’s a mistake to look for racist motives behind what I say. It’s a mistake to draw conclusions based on imaginings about I have said.
“Clearly, this is nonsense, and you prove that it is nonsense a few sentences after this, when you talk about the high incarceration rate of African-Americans. How is mass incarceration a sign that black people have “gotten away with” anything? Clearly, they haven’t. Your arguments are completely inconsistent with themselves.”
Nonesense! In 1965 black mothers and fathers would have grabbed their yoiung sons and daughters by the ear, dragged them to church, meted out a fitting punishment, admonished them about what it takes to make it in this world and stopped all thoughts of participation with such behaviors and dress. Many things have contributed to the changes in the black community (much of it driven by white guilt) but black promotion and acceptance of the gansta brand has also contributed. When I say they have gotten away with it what I mean is a higher standard has not been preserved and a higher level of black success has been thwarted because we are afraid to tell the truth about what causes high incarceration rates. Have you ever read the report written by Senator Daniel Patrick Moynahan? He was one of those charged with putting together Lyndon Johnson’s “War on Poverty” policy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Patrick_Moynihan
A lot to respond to here.
Jack: “Maybe some of our readers who know for a fact the man is guilty beyond any reasonable double would like to cash in on this reward money?”
Who are these readers, Jack? I haven’t seen a single person here claim that Zimmerman is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I have called for an arrest and a fair trial. I did not say that Zimmerman should be found guilty of murder–I still don’t know if he should–but I did say that he should at least be found guilty of criminal negligence for disobeying the police and following Martin with a gun. Of course, I think that this verdict should be made by a jury, and if they don’t arrive at this verdict than I will respect their results.
Princess did say that she thinks Martin should be found guilty of murder, but she also clarified that she thinks this verdict should be made by a jury.
You tried to characterize Princess and I, along with all protesters who have spoken up about the Trayvon Martin issue, as part of some kind of lynch mob. You actually used the word “lynching” to describe our efforts to demand an arrest. But that’s ridiculous. Demanding that the police make an arrest is the exact opposite of lynching. We’re not encouraging vigilante justice, we’re asking the police to do their jobs.
Now, I will readily agree that the term “lynch mob” does accurately describe those who have called for vigilante justice, such as Farrakhan and the Black Panthers. But that’s not who you were talking about when you first used the term; you were talking about Princess, me, and everyone else who has demanded an arrest. That is what I found disgusting, and I made that clear, so I don’t know why you asked me to clarify. Using the word “lynching” to describe anything but an actual lynching is distasteful. It makes a mockery of the victims of actual lynch mobs.
“Are you disgusted that I suggested we should wait until all the facts are in before reaching a conclusion of guilt or innocence?”
Clearly not, since I said we should do the same in my very first comment on this article.
“Are you disgusted that called Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton race baiters and agitators?”
I am a bit confused as to why you would lump Sharpton and Farrakhan together, when their actions are totally different. Sharpton called for an arrest–Farakhan called for a vigilante execution. But this conflation isn’t surprising enough, coming from you, to really disgust me.
However, your general decision to lump all of the protesters, most of whom are peaceful, in with radicals such as Farrakhan, is pretty disgusting. You’ve even tried to lump Obama in with them, which is absurd–Obama’s statements were in no way “racist” as you described them in another thread (I’ll challenge that comment specifically on the other article).
“PS Chris…just curious, but are you at all “disgusted” with Rev. Al or Louie F for inserting themselves into this situation and making it worse? You know Louie is saying that this is going to turn into a revenge thing..heads are going to roll? For the new Black Panthers, it already has. Doesn’t that vigilante junk bother your acute sensibilities of justice in the slightest or is only us monsters (me and Tina) that has you so upset?”
Of course I am disgusted with Farrakhan and the NBPP. (Sharpton, not so much, but I honestly don’t know the details of what he’s said so I can’t make an evaluation.) I’ve already said that I condemn these statements. But you know what? I don’t comment on Louis Farrakhan’s blog, nor do I comment on whatever hate site the NBPP runs. I comment on your blog. So quit trying to deflect and act as if I’m holding a double standard. I am not going to waste valuable typing time by decrying the Black Panthers over and over again. No one cares about the Black Panthers–they are politically irrelevant. I guess you are too, but I’ve been commenting here for years and I am naturally going to have a stronger reaction to offensive statements from you and Tina then to offensive statements from the Black Panthers. Take it as a compliment, or a weird sign of loyalty.
“I used the word lynching here because that’s what a lot of people are calling for, but he’s also being symbolically lynched by those who have found him guilty already.”
You can’t be “symbolically” lynched. To use something like that as a symbol is deeply insensitive and insulting to real victims of real lynchings. It’s like when people say they are being “raped” by a certain political policy, or even a movie. No, being forced to buy health insurance is not like being forced into sex. Neither is freely choosing to watch the Phantom Menace. (OK, I may be venting a bit too much now.)
“Do you deny the Black Panthers offered a reward for the man’s capture? Do you deny that Louie F. is inciting people to do violence and get some revenge?”
Of course not, but they were not who you were talking about when you first used the word “lynching.” You seemed to be applying that word to all who were calling for Zimmerman’s arrest. If that is not what you meant, then let me know.
“Chris you are getting all pissy over my word “lynching” when it is absolutely on target.”
It’s ” absolutely on target” only when applied to Farrakhan, the NBPP, and others who have called for vigilante “justice” against Zimmerman. That I’ll give you. But it is certainly not on target when applied to me, Princess, or most of the other protesters, who have called for a lawful arrest of Zimmerman, a full investigation, and a fair trial. Those are not the actions of a lynch mob, either real or symbolic. If you did not mean to apply that term to us, then please let me know. But that was certainly the implication in what you wrote.
Tina, I’ll have to reply to your comment later.
Chris, good news! I have consulted with our Post Scripts legal department and they have offered a special dispensation for you, Libby, Princess and anyone else posting here that all of you shall, and forever more, from this date forward, be excluded from any inference or reference that I may have made to a lynch mob regarding this case. You may now go forth, enjoy your day, smile and be happy, knowing I didn’t mean you.
Chris, you should know that not all comments from all readers are fit for posting.
Crap, I forgot to change my name back to normal.
Jack: “Chris, good news! I have consulted with our Post Scripts legal department and they have offered a special dispensation for you, Libby, Princess and anyone else posting here that all of you shall, and forever more, from this date forward, be excluded from any inference or reference that I may have made to a lynch mob regarding this case. You may now go forth, enjoy your day, smile and be happy, knowing I didn’t mean you.”
I genuinely appreciate this, Jack. But you should write more carefully in the future, because it really did seem like you were talking about me and Princess at first. Having said that, I will now drop it.
I also hadn’t considered that you were seeing comments from people who favored mob justice, but simply weren’t publishing them (likely for good reason). Thanks for clarifying that.
Why is it that you all condemn us for wanting justice when we have seen that has none been granted…….and as for the Oklahoma couple the shooter was apprehended and arrested in the murder of the elderly couple so what are you all talking about?????It’s when situations like this occurs and the gunman does not follow police orders and intentionally stalks an innocent human being for being where he as suppose to be,that the public starts a political out cry for justice.This man left with the clothing on his back from the police station which could be used AS EVIDENCE,he did not take a drug test but it was rendered on the corps of Trayvon MARTIN,he left with the murder weapon that shoot and killed a 17 yr old boy.Also he was not given a lie detector nor were there photographs of his injuries….This is why the out cry is so Loud for Justice…….And for those of you,who want to bury your heads in the sand go right ahead and do so……..But if my black son had assaulted and killed your white child he would be waiting for his death sentence!!!!!!!!!!
Jennifer, you raised so many important issues.
The first thing that comes to my mind is, in general terms we all want justice.
Justice is blind, that’s why she wears a blindfold. So justice can’t be about race. It can’t be about treating one person different than another because of the color of their skin. That would be wrong and we don’t want that…do we?
I understand that certain people DO want to make this about race. They also want the law to behave according to their bias and expectations, but that would be wrong too.
There has been a quick rush to judgement long before the facts started leaking out and that offends many of us who see this as the real injustice. We see this rush to judge as having a lot more to do with revenge than it does with justice.
Tell me honestly, if this 17 year old had been white would you be so emotional about this case? No, you wouldn’t, so this is about race, not justice. So here you are throwing stones at the police, at the victim, and at anyone who says…WAIT FOR THE EVIDENCE TO COME OUT! DON’T RUSH TO JUDGE.
We want justice to be done, but not by a mob and we want people to hold judgement until the facts come out.
This case has become a rallying point like it was a civil rights case, but it’s not. It’s not even reflective of any ongoing issues. But, don’t tell that to the media whores like Farrakhan and Sharpton that…they want to exploit this for all its worth.
Lets see where the facts take us, okay? That’s all I’m saying. I have no idea if he is innocent or guilty and neither do you, but for sure whatever it is, this is no civil rights test case!
Another George Zimmerman wrote: “I did say that he should at least be found guilty of criminal negligence for disobeying the police and following Martin with a gun.”
I thought it would be of use to our readers to know what the legal definition of criminal negligence is:
http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/criminal-negligence/
I think the State of Florida would have trouble proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman’s decision to take the gun with him was criminally negligent. Yes the police warned him or admonished him against taking the gun with him however, he was suspicious because of recent burglaries in his area and he was going out into the night. Was the gun meant as a weapon for aggressive use or for protection?
We can argue for days whether it was wise for him to take the gun or even to follow Martin but can we say he was departing from what a prudent or careful person would do in a similar circumstance beyond a reasonable doubt? I don’t think so. I think many men would make the same decision and take the gun for personal protection having no thought of aggression in mind at all.
I think Zimmerman’s cooperation with police speaks to his state of mind. A guilty man would not offer information but instead would attempt to excuse or deny…if possible he might even run.
“he should be found guilty of criminal negligence for disobeying the police and following Martin with a gun”
Sorry, but the man saying that was not a police officer. That was a police dispatcher and they are not sworn personnel and even if he was, saying we don’t want you to do that is only a suggestion. However, that statement serves on good purpose, it shows yet another example of people jumping to conclusions when they don’t know what they are talking about.
Your are correct, Jack, that it was a police dispatcher and not an officer who told Zimmerman to wait–I apologize for the error.
However, I still think Zimmerman’s actions would fall under the definition of criminal negligence that Tina described above. I think the fact that Zimmerman is a neighborhood watch leader makes him even more culpable than another person would be in this situation. He knows that neighborhood watch members are not supposed to pursue suspects, and that they are certainly not supposed to carry weapons while doing so. He ignored proper protocol for neighborhood watch volunteers as well as the police dispatcher. Then he got out of his vehicle and started following Martin on foot. I keep thinking, why would he do that? That is something that a prudent and careful person would not do, in my opinion. It’s just so stupid. And given his background in the neighborhood watch, Zimmerman had even more reason to know better than an Average Joe would. This was a series of very stupid and irresponsible decisions that culminated in the death of a minor.
Zimmerman may have justified taking the gun for his own “protection,” but by following Martin he was provoking an incident and making it more likely that the use of the gun would occur. That’s why the self-defense justification seems flawed to me; he put himself in this situation.
And if Martin did attack Zimmerman first, then couldn’t Zimmerman have found a way to fight back without resorting to his gun? It seems that Zimmerman is a great deal heavier than Martin. Was he really in life-threatening danger? I am not saying I know the answers to these questions, but they are important ones to ask.
Chris you are using language that is a bit inflamatory and doesn’t reflect Zimmerman’s state of mind, rather your emotional decision about what he had in his mind.
The word pursue is described in several dictionaries as: to follow in order to overtake, capture, kill, etc.; chase.
I notice the word stalking has also been used although I’m not sure if by you.
There is no evidence to suggest that Zimmerman was either pursuing or stalking Martin. We know he was following him and that when he “lost’ sight of him he headed back to his truck from his own account of what happened.
Then you write this: “by following Martin he was provoking an incident…”
Only when you know the outcome! Any number of other things might have transpired, including Zimmerman getting in his truck and heading back home as he indicated he was ready to do until Martin allegedly confronted him. If his account is true, including slugging, punching, slamming Zimmermans head on the concrete, then it would be Martin that made stupid decisions that resulted in his own death.
More and more it is sounding like fear drove both parties and an unfortunate sequence of events ended in the unfortunate and accidental death of Martin…a terrible tragedy but not prosecutable as murder.
If that scenario is correct then justice has not been served and the entire media circus, the threats against Mr. Zimmerman, the dangerous position Spike Lee placed on a neighbor of Zimmerman when he tweeted the address he thought was Zimmerman’s, and the underlying political component are all the more despicable.
“Chris you are using language that is a bit inflamatory and doesn’t reflect Zimmerman’s state of mind, rather your emotional decision about what he had in his mind.
The word pursue is described in several dictionaries as: to follow in order to overtake, capture, kill, etc.; chase.”
That is the first definition of the word “pursue” according to Webster’s; the second definition given is “to follow close upon; go with; attend: Bad luck pursued him.” That is how I meant to use the word. Perhaps I should have simply said “follow.” Either way, my point stands: Zimmerman should not have followed Martin, and he knew that he shouldn’t have, because of his training as a neighborhood watch volunteer, because of the police dispatcher’s recommendation, and because of simple common sense. That makes him criminally negligent IMO.
“I notice the word stalking has also been used although I’m not sure if by you.”
I haven’t used that word, and I agree with you that it is inaccurate.
“We know he was following him and that when he “lost’ sight of him he headed back to his truck from his own account of what happened.”
He should not have gotten out of his truck to begin with–that was his second big mistake after following him with his vehicle (third or fourth big mistake if you include making the assumption that Martin posed a threat and calling the police in the first place).
“Only when you know the outcome! Any number of other things might have transpired, including Zimmerman getting in his truck and heading back home as he indicated he was ready to do until Martin allegedly confronted him.”
When you take a gun with you while following somebody, that indicates that you have at least considered the possibility that a confrontation might ensure. He wouldn’t have taken the gun if he didn’t think he might need to use it. Continuing to follow Martin when he knew that doing so could lead to a confrontation between the two of them, a confrontation which might require the use of a gun, was grossly irresponsible. And it puts his actions outside the realm of pure self-defense in my opinion.
“If his account is true, including slugging, punching, slamming Zimmermans head on the concrete, then it would be Martin that made stupid decisions that resulted in his own death.”
If the account is true then BOTH men made stupid decisions that resulted in Martin’s death. I don’t defend someone’s right to start wailing on a guy simply because he is following him, but I can’t ignore everything that Zimmerman did to cause this situation.
“More and more it is sounding like fear drove both parties
and an unfortunate sequence of events ended in the unfortunate and accidental death of Martin…a terrible tragedy but not prosecutable as murder.”
Do you think Martin pulled the trigger by accident? I hadn’t heard that theory put forward, but I suppose it’s possible. That would still be criminal negligence.
“If that scenario is correct then justice has not been served and the entire media circus, the threats against Mr. Zimmerman, the dangerous position Spike Lee placed on a neighbor of Zimmerman when he tweeted the address he thought was Zimmerman’s, and the underlying political component are all the more despicable.”
I agree that tweeting anyone’s address without their consent, as well as making threats against anyone, is despicable.
NOW THAT WE HAVE FOUND OUT THAT POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS HAS 3 CONFLICTING STATEMENTS COMING FROM THE NIGHT OF THAT ONE THE SHOOTING…. DOES THAT MAKE IT ANY DIFFERENT?????……..THERE’S AN INTENTIONAL COVER UP AND IT DOESN’T TAKE A HOMICIDE DETECTIVE OR A FORENSICS EXPERT TO FIGURE THIS OUT!!THIS IS WRONG AND AS OF LAST NIGHT WHEN ABC NEWS AIRED THE ARREST VIDEO THERE WE’RE NO EXPEDIENCE OF A SCUFFLE IN THIS MANS CLOTHING OR VISIBLE INJURES TO HIS FACE OR HEAD MAKES THIS CASE VERY UNBELIEVABLE………AND JUST THE MERE FACT THAT DET.SERENO SAW THIS ORIGINALLY AS A HOMICIDE BUT WAS UNABLE TO CHARGE HIM, DUE TO INTERFERENCE FROM THE STATE PROSECUTOR,IS WHY WE ARE OUTRAGED!THE DETECTIVE DID NOT FIND HIS STORY BELIEVABLE AND NEITHER DO I!!!!! ALONG WITH OTHER AMERICANS WHO KNOWS THAT THROUGH OUT HISTORY THAT THIS CASE IF IT WERE REVERSED ONCE AGAIN MY SON WOULD BE AWAITING HIS EXECUTION…THIS IS NOT A HYPOTHESES IT’S 100 PERCENT FACTUAL……READ UP ON IT IN THE HISTORY OF ARREST…ON THIS COUNTRY OF A BLACK ON WHITE CRIMES……CHECK IT OUT FOR YOURSELF DON’T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT….AND THOSE OF YOU WHOM ARE AFRAID TO TAKE OFF YOUR ROSE COLORED GLASSES ARE TRULY AFRAID OF WHAT YOU MAY SEE BEYOND THEM………IT’S EASY TO SAY WAIT FOR THE FACTS THE 911 CALL WAS MORE FACTUAL THAN EVER….YOU CAN HEAR ZIMMERMAN BREATHING WITH SHORTNESS OF BREATH AND ADMITTING THAT HE WAS FOLLOWING THE CHILD……SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT? HE ALSO HAD A HOSTLER AROUND HIS WAIST WITH A GUN IN IT…….READY TO USE IT BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE.MY CLOSING STATEMENT IS THAT ZIMMERMAN’S FATHER IS A RETIRED JUDGE AND ONCE WE FIND OUT THAT A SPECIAL FAVOR WAS GRANTED IN THIS CASE THIS WILL REALLY TELL US ABOUT MRS…BLIND JUSTICE!!!!!!!!!!
Jennifer thank you for sharing your opinions with us.
I don’t think the abc video is clear enough to know for certain that there is no evidence of a scuffle, as you call it. Zimmerman was taken to the hospital before this video was shot. His injuries would have been cleaned up there. I saw one still shot taken from the video that was enhanced and what looked like a gash was visible on the back of his head. BUT NONE OF US KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. We are discussing this situation based on reports made by media and that is not information that is necessarily accurate or would fly in court.
Insisting there is a cover up is as irresponsible as insisting that Zimmerman is innocent or Martin is totally innocent or that either is guilty. Judging innocence or guilt is not what we are doing here. We are simply looking at what is reported and discussing alternatives, points of law, and some responses that may also be criminal. We have also expressed sympathies with the Martin family and offered and acknowledged calmer voices and prayer. An unfortunate outcome from the extreme response of the NBP and others is that it may have created a poisoned jury pool should Zimmerman go to trial. That certainly would not ensure justice is done for either party. A jury is supposed to look at the evidence and reach a determination WITHOUT PREJUDICE. What citizen has not taken a position or been influenced by opinion rather than evidence and facts?
“DET.SERENO SAW THIS ORIGINALLY AS A HOMICIDE BUT WAS UNABLE TO CHARGE HIM, DUE TO INTERFERENCE FROM THE STATE PROSECUTOR,IS WHY WE ARE OUTRAGED”
Please calm down. This happens all the time. The police gather information and make an arrest but they do not decide whether the evidence is sufficient to bring a case to trial. The local DA makes that decision and in this case he had to have enough evidence to prove Zimmerman’s legal guilt. They determined that there was not enough damning evidence against Zimmerman to charge him with murder or manslaughter and that there was evidence to show that Zimmerman was telling the truth about events that led to Martin’s death. They make these determinations based on the law. The case is being reviewed and investigated by at least three other entities, the state, Eric Holders office, and the FBI. If there is evidence that a wrong decision was made, on purpose or not, something will be done about it.
Jennifer you should know that Jack, a former police officer, did check out criminal statistics. While it is true that, prior to the civil rights movement especially, blacks were treated despicably by whites and in and without white courts. In recent times however the large majority of black crime is not black on white crime and not white oppression of blacks but is black on black crime. It’s a very sad and terrible fact that young black man turn to gangs and crime and are not living to become active contributing members of society. Black women are doing very well…why not black men? If you want to look for a place where change needs to come you might want to think about what can be done to stop blacks from killing blacks.
The “child” (Martin) is almost a man and over six feet tall. There is no way that Zimmerman could have know when he started following Martin that he was only seventeen or that he was visiting in the neighborhood. In fact the family should have alerted the neighbors that Martin was visiting and might be out walking the neighborhood. My neighborhood watch instructs us to let our neighbors know when we have people visiting, their numbers and ages, car license, etc.
No one is here saying that Zimmerman was not following Martin or that it was a good decision to follow him. No one is saying it was smart of him to take his gun except as self-protection. Neither of these acts by themselves make Zimmerman a murderer, however. There is no evidence that he set out to kill Martin as far as we’ve been told. Under the circumstances, as far as we know, it could have been Zimmerman that ended up dead or disabled.
With all due respect I think your attitude is clouding your resoning ability. You have decided Zimmermans guilt based on resentment over perceived past injustices…some of them over 100 years old. Your attitude is causing you to judge the police and Zimmerman in a way that the black man was judged 100 years ago. That won’t help the Martin family and it won’t help the black cause for justice and fair treatment. It is a vengeful attitude and lacking in the dignity that won the 1965 civil rights decision (MLK did not preach revenge or pay back).
I hope you will calm down and realize that our discussions of all possible scenarios in this case is not about assigning guilt or innocence. We don’t have the power or legal authority to decide. We are interested in the law, how it is applied, whether it works. We are interested in the politics that have been inserted into this case and how that might impact what is happening. We are interested in learning from the experience and seeing what the facts eventually tell us. I fear this case is being expoited for politcal reasons. If so the black community should reconsider which party has its best interests at heart.
When we talk about blind justice at Post Scripts what we want is exactly that, justice that doesn’t take race into consideration…FULL EQUALITY AND JUSTICE FOR EVERY PERSON…decisions and trials based on facts and evidence not politics and not emotions!
Well Tina, I would like to use ration and discretion in this case but at this point it is impossible to do so. This teenager is dead and if Zimmerman was not trying to do the work of law enforcement TRAYVON’S mother would be with her child TODAY!!!!…….This is beyond reasoning at this point and when you live in constant fear that your son could be next,then matters like this concerns you!My son at the age of 22 was going to a bar with a group of all white co-workers…. and as they were driving along,they were pulled over by a white officer…Now keep in mind,my son was not the driver but they were pulled over for speeding, once the officer spotted my son on the passenger side he then came over and asked for my sons drivers license and proceeded to ask him how many times had he been to jail………I was Livid ……for the simple fact (of he) the officer,did not give the driver a ticket,number 2 my sons a college student and has NEVER been in trouble with the law…… and he questioned where they were going….. but most importantly he had to prove his Innocents…. When in fact he had not committed a CRIME……… So if you insist on believing your own fabrication of reality then do so…. People of color especially African Americans live with being stereo typed on a daily basis,it’s your prerogative if you believe otherwise!!Until you live this life and you witness the struggle, then your opinion is just that…….. an OPINION!!!!No one can make me believe that this Child deserved to DIE….. if he defended himself against this psychotic person who was obsessed with being a part of the POLICE FORCE……Zimmerman kept failing the Physic test…….and to the Sanford Police Department I’d like to Thank You for seeing straight through him…… I am glad that you all would not allow him on the force…… No telling how many TRAYVON MARTINS this man would have taken down………..if he were an actual COP!!!!!!!!!!!
And whatever the crime that the black man commits he is immediately apprehended and then bailed and next Sentenced.The process should be the same in every case!!Regardless of gun laws….EXECUTIONS ON BLACK ON WHITE CRIMES AS FAR AS BEING PUT TO DEATH SINCE 1976 UP UNTIL 2012 IS AT AN 8 TO 1 RATIO. THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF EXECUTIONS OF A BLACK PERSON DIEING BY CAPITAL PUNISHMENT FOR A HANNIS CRIME AGAINST A WHITE PERSON IS 252 AND A WHITE PERSON KILLING A BLACK PERSON 18……..I LIVE AND RAISE MY CHILDREN IN A LAW ABIDING WAY….. BUT THE CRIME OF A BLACK PERSON IS ALWAYS MORE PUNISHABLE THAN OF A WHITE PERSON…..THEY SERVE MORE TIME THAN ANY OTHER PERSON OF ANY ETHNICITY. WHICH DOESN’T MAKE CRIME RIGHT BUT THE LAWS UNEQUAL DEPENDING UPON WHO YOU ARE AND WHERE YOU COME FROM!!!!OH,SINCE MICHEAL VICK SERVED TIME FOR THE KILLINGS OF DOGS……..I KNOW that ZIMMERMAN WILL DEFINITELY SERVE TIME FOR TAKING A HUMAN LIFE UNJUSTIFIABLY!!!!!!!!ONE LAST COMMENT,WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THAT YOU HEARD OF ANYONE KILLING A MONK IN A MONASTERY FOR WEARING A HOODIE??????????DO SOME RESEARCH AND LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU COME UP WITH!!!!!THE LAST TIME I CHECKED THIS WAS NOT A CRIME!!!!!!