Posted by Tina
A “white Hispanic” with diminished capacity was shot dead by a black shooter in Arizona. The assailant has not been arrested. The family is asking for justice. No word yet from Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, or the President. Full story at The American Thinker , or watch the video:
This is the first I heard about this but it does not look good. Why is Obama not saying something is a Hispanic life not worth the same as a black life? Is this Holder going to send a big taskforce of lawyers to see whats up? I was raised in a democrat home but now I am thinking I should be voting against Obama and these liberals. they dont share my values. they dont respect all races equal. they are just a differnt breed of racist you know? this is bad and i think we will see more of this before it gets better because of people that push race hatred all the time. i am sick of it. i see this all the time. i feel bad for my country. i dont like this new name white Hispanic, they are not white Hispanic they are Americans of Hispanic decent period.
Arturo I think a lot of Americans are sick of it too. they are also sick about it because we have foughtnvery hard to live up to the founding principle of justice and equality for all. We have embraced people from all over the world who wish to share in our freedoms and prosper.
You are a strong voice and we are happy to have you join us at Post Scripts. Welcome.
From the American Thinker:
“The April 3 shooting by the 22-year-old black man — whom police in suburban Laveen have yet to identify”
Tina, why did you leave out this crucial detail when you said that “the assailant has not been arrested?” It seems that you did so to mislead people into believing that this incident was more like the Trayvon Martin case than it actually was. In the Martin case, the shooter was known right from the beginning, and the police let him go. In this case, the police don’t know who the shooter is, so of course he hasn’t yet been arrested! That’s a totally different situation.
The reason this has not become a major media story is because in this case, a known shooter was not let go by police. It’s really that simple. I’ve said it before, but your attempts to construct convoluted, sinister motives for the media’s attention to the Martin story and not others do not hold up to even the slightest scrutiny. There are far more plausible reasons for this that have nothing to do with reverse racism by the media. You choose to ignore reasonable explanations in favor of conspiracy theories, simply because they fit your party’s narrative. You are not doing yourself or your country any favors by choosing to continue forgoing logic just so you can score political points.
I just read a very good background article on Zimmerman at Reuters:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425
Turns out Zimmerman is a real mut…has Afro-Peruvian grandparent!
Chris: Tina, why did you leave out this crucial detail when you said that “the assailant has not been arrested?”
I was in a hurry this morning or I might have thought to include it.
“It seems that you did so to mislead people into believing that this incident was more like the Trayvon Martin case than it actually was.”
Chris it was not my intention to mislead anyone. If it had been I would not have provided the link!
Anyone reading the blog could probably guess that there was a certain amount of sarcasm in the posting…hence the references to the race baiters that showed up in the month old Martin case. Had I not been in such a hurry similar disdain for certain fabricating news oulets would have been included. In fact, had I not been in such a hurry I would have put white Hispanic in the title in italics to show my contempt for the use of that term, to mislead the public, in the Martin case.
Your objections have been noted.
Here is more disturbing information no matter what color American you are. The Progressives are working hard to re-create their version of 1968 🙁
After Brutal String of Black on White Violence in the Name of Justice for Trayvon, Beck Asks Where Al Sharpton Is
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/after-brutal-string-of-black-on-white-violence-in-the-name-of-justice-for-trayvon-beck-asks-where-al-sharpton-is/
Tina, when you have time, can you try and explain why you do not find my explanation convincing? Why don’t you believe that the differences between the Trayvon Martin case and the one highlighted in this article are enough to explain the differences in media attention between the two? Why do you believe that your explanation–that the media is acting in a reverse racist manner by only highlighting crimes where the victims are black and the perpetrators are not–is more accurate or reasonable than the explanations I have given? I know I have asked you these questions before when you have brought up other cases in comparison with the Martin case, but I don’t believe you answered me those times.
Chris: “Why don’t you believe that the differences between the Trayvon Martin case and the one highlighted in this article are enough to explain the differences in media attention between the two?”
A. I acknowledged the difference.
B. The media and the race baiters did not need information before acting as if they had the facts in the Trayvon case (even though it was a month old case).
C. I believe the Trayvon case was a politically motivated story.
D. I don’t think you would ever agree that the left and left media are capable of being this underhanded and low and so discussion with you would be a waste of time.
John S posted a link that highlights this story from February:
http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/17048649/teens-set-13-year-old-student-on-fire
If the President, Sharpton and Jackson, and the NBP wanted to call attention to a race problem in America, and if they truly cared about the balck community and black kids, they would speak out about cases like this:
Black on black crime is extremely high and should be the big concern but the reason these race pimps and opportunists “speak out” is political. They don’t care about the people. Intellectual discussions about the circumstances in each case, or whether the cases are hate crimes, avoid the most fundamental truths underlying these crimes. I’d rather honestly talk about that…but I risk being accused of racism. (Yes that’s more sarcasm) This stuff really makes me sick at heart and yes I blame it mostly on Democrat polices and pandering. I blame it on the divisive man in the White House and his divisive party.
You hit the nail on the head Tina! Nicely and accurately put! Keep up the great work in spreading the truth no matter where it leads you. The truth will set us free but it will often make us miserable first 🙂
Tina, none of what you said in A. through D. comes close to answering my questions. I am asking you to explain why you believe your explanation–that the media focused on the Martin case and not the one in this article because they are politically motivated, reverse racist, etc.–is more LOGICAL than the explanation I gave, which is that the Trayvon case received more attention because the shooter was not arrested for over a month.
Maybe you think it’s a waste of time to debate this with me, but I think for your own sake you need to be able to explain what makes your explanation more logical than mine. If you can’t do so, then it appears you aren’t even basing your position on logic at all.
Here’s a story that is actually more similar to the Martin case than most of the ones you have put forward. It involves the shooting of an unarmed young black man.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/26/us/spotlight-eludes-black-youths-killing-in-georgia.html?pagewanted=all
And yet, this case did not get a lot of media attention, nor did it get attention from the NAACP or Al Sharpton. If these people were motivated only by a desire to exploit racial tension, then why didn’t they jump all over this case? Can you acknowledge the possibility that there might be other reasons for the coverage of the Martin case than the ones you have put forward so far? Ta-Nehisi Coates seems to think so. From the article:
“Why some cases with perceived racial implications catch the national consciousness and others do not is as much about the combined power of social and traditional media as it is about happenstance, said Ta-Nehisi Coates, a senior editor at The Atlantic who writes about racial issues.
Several events coalesced to push the Martin case forward: an apparently incomplete police investigation, no immediate arrest and Floridas expansive self-defense law.
These stories happen all the time, Mr. Coates said. Its heartbreaking and tragic, but theres not much news coverage unless the circumstances are truly, truly unusual. “
Tina, I should apologize. I should not have assumed earlier that you left out what I saw as crucial information in this story in order to mislead people. I believe you when you say you were simply in a hurry, and you had no intention to deceive.
I generally don’t think it is a good idea to automatically attribute bad motives to those we perceive as our ideological opponents, but unfortunately this is a habit that too many of us often fall into, myself included. I’m sorry.
That said, I do think that you have fallen into the same trap with your responses to the Trayvon Martin case. You assume bad faith on the part of the national media, and you attribute sinister motives to them when there are, in my opinion, much more reasonable explanations for why they have focused on the Trayvon Martin case and not other cases with racial implications. Like I said, this is something we all do sometimes–I just caught myself doing it to you, which was wrong–but I don’t think it’s healthy, and I think it’s something we should try to avoid whenever possible. What do you say?
Chris: “I think for your own sake you need to be able to explain what makes your explanation more logical than mine. If you can’t do so, then it appears you aren’t even basing your position on logic at all.”
Chris this an instance where you need to go off in a room and argue with yourself. You make a lot of assumptions about what motivates me when I post.
I did not suggest the cases were exactly alike nor did I compare one case to the other. I made statements that were accurate about this case. I chose to use the words, “white Hispanic”, used to nationally sensationalize the Martin case, and observed, sarcastically, that the usual suspects had not yet attempted to use the case similarly.
My only position is that race baiting and using tragic events for political reasons STINKS especially when there are more compelling and fundamental issues that should be capturing the attention of those involved in politicizing. It’s time for the leaders in the black community to clean up their acts and begin to focus on solving the real problems that plague the black community.
Apparently you choose to either dismiss or count as irrelevant that NBC altered information (dispatcher tape) to make it seem like race was the motive in the Martin case or that facts about the case and the people involved were withheld or manipulated (Martin was characterized as a child, for instance, and Zimmerman as a felon and a stalker) in order to sensationalize that story. The use of the words white Hispanic have NEVER been used before to my knowledge.
Many cases, including the one you just posted could have captured the attention of the White House, national media and race baiting thugs like Sharpton and Jackson. They have not. The Martin case was chosen, IMO, because they thought they could exploit it for political reasons (bring out the black vote…fire em up to become volunteers and activists) Oh yeah and one more VERY important reason…the gun!!! They need to turn attention away from the Fast & Furious gun running case. Both were meant to lead the anti-gun crowd to gun law victory and it looks like both will backfire.
I guess the most succinct answer to your question, Chris, is that I have watched the extreme left since I was your age…they are underhanded, opportunistic, slime and I am really, really, really sick and tired of watching them crap all over our country…hence the sarcastic posting of a similar case.
Chris your (kind) apology is not necessary. You see things from your perspective and I see them from mine. I think the Trayvon Martin case was exploited and I think the whole thing was quite possibly coordinated. I don’t think they expected the result they got.
In the past we sat in our living rooms and the media told us the way it was. Now there are all kinds of alternative ways to investigate and share information and they can’t spoon feed the narrative anymore. NBC deliberately edited the recording of the phone call to make Zimmerman seem like a racist. Race baiters were johnny on the spot using all of the jargon…hunted him down like a dog…I mean come on! The President put in his emotional two cents like a bow on the package. NBC was motivated to run the story as they did…why? It all looks too darn pat to me. The fallout was to nail a couple of fall guys:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-call-manipulated-nbc-309258
http://knightcenter.utexas.edu/blog/00-9877-second-nbc-journalist-fired-over-edited-george-zimmerman-911-call
I’ll ask again. What about justice for Zimmerman? Does anyone on the left give a fig about what hyping this story has done to his chances at a fair hearing or trial or to his family?
Those who saw an opportunity to make political hay had a vision and the end justified the means.
Tina, I’m still not sure why you don’t find my explanations plausible. What about the reasons Ta-Nehisi Coates gives for the attention given to the Martin case? Do you find them unconvincing? Why?
“I chose to use the words, “white Hispanic”, used to nationally sensationalize the Martin case,”
The only place I saw that term used was here. I believe you linked to one mainstream source that used the term. Other than that, do you have any evidence that this term was commonly used in the Martin case?
It’s true that many did at first assume that Zimmerman was white, which was wrong. But I haven’t seen the term “white Hispanic” commonly used in the articles and clips I have seen of this story.
“It’s time for the leaders in the black community to clean up their acts and begin to focus on solving the real problems that plague the black community.”
Black youths being followed and suspected of criminal behavior when they aren’t doing anything wrong IS a real problem plaguing the black community. I do think there is merit to your insistence that more attention needs to be paid to black-on-black crime, but I don’t think it’s right of you to totally discount the serious problem of anti-black racism. In one discussion we had about this subject, I said that we have a responsibility to unlearn racial prejudices; you said you disagreed with this position, but you did not explain why. You have a problem with black leaders putting all the burden on combatting racism onto whites, which is understandable. But you are doing the same thing, just in the other direction, by placing all responsibility for fighting racism onto blacks.
“Apparently you choose to either dismiss or count as irrelevant that NBC altered information”
No, I commented on that article and said that this was horrid and wrong. The network has apologized and the person responsible has been fired, but this never should have happened.
“to make it seem like race was the motive in the Martin case”
It still might be. Zimmerman at one point in the audio does seem to say “f—ing coons.” And I do think Zimmerman’s initial suspicions about Martin likely had to do with Martin’s race. Now, let’s be clear: I don’t think this makes Zimmerman a Racist with a capital R. As I understand it he has done charitable work with black children, and has a black neighbor who has spoken out for him. But that does not make someone immune to believing in racial stereotypes. Even Al Sharpton has said that when he hears footsteps behind him, and he turns around, he feels relieved when it turns out to not be a black man! We are all influenced by racial stereotypes to a degree; they are so pervasive. I think it’s unfortunate and unfair that some are talking about this incident as if Zimmerman must be some kind of Klan member. Lots of people DO have a Pavlovian reaction of paranoia when they see black youths in hoodies; even Hispanic men.
I don’t think Zimmerman hates black people. I think that this incident shows the danger of anti-black stereotypes, and what happens when people act on those stereotypes. We need to be having a more serious conversation than “Was Zimmerman a racist” if we want to prevent other instances like this from happening.
“Many cases, including the one you just posted could have captured the attention of the White House, national media and race baiting thugs like Sharpton and Jackson. They have not. The Martin case was chosen, IMO, because they thought they could exploit it for political reasons (bring out the black vote…fire em up to become volunteers and activists) Oh yeah and one more VERY important reason…the gun!!! They need to turn attention away from the Fast & Furious gun running case. Both were meant to lead the anti-gun crowd to gun law victory and it looks like both will backfire.”
But couldn’t the case I mentioned have been “exploited” in similar ways? Both cases involved the shooting of an unarmed black man. Perhaps the victim in the case in the NYT article wouldn’t have been seen as being as sympathetic as Martin, but other than that, they are very similar. Why didn’t the “thugs” you mention focus on that incident? (And by the way, I have a huge problem with you using the word “thugs” to describe Sharpton and Jackson. I do not have all that much respect for either of them, but they are not criminals, and your use of that term has racial implications which I am sure you are aware of.)
“I’ll ask again. What about justice for Zimmerman? Does anyone on the left give a fig about what hyping this story has done to his chances at a fair hearing or trial or to his family?”
I am concerned, but I think it can be done. If Casey Anthony can get a “fair trial,” anyone can.
Wow look real objective journalism does still happend!
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/think-you-know-george-zimmerman-this-new-timeline-could-change-the-perception/
“White Hispanic”? As opposed to what? The ordinary brownish sort … that are illegal?
You guys are deeply, seriously … weird.
Chris: “I’m still not sure why you don’t find my explanations plausible. What about the reasons Ta-Nehisi Coates gives for the attention given to the Martin case? Do you find them unconvincing? Why?”
Perceptions have a lot to do with grounding, background and focus. The egg-headed (said with all due respect) perception of Coates is understandable given his apparent mindset. Race issues have been his focus. I would bet that the political use of race has not figured into his research much because he’s looking for answers to different questions. Your PC education has greatly colored your perceptions. The comment you excerpted doesn’t actually say much:
Huh? “perceived racial implications catch the national conscience”?
Try sudden headlines that scream racial profiling and feature a thug photo of a man called a “white Hispanic” who, it was implied, hunted down and murdered a poor cute little boy in a hoodie is shoved into the national consciousness?
Coates says there was an “apparent” incomplete police report. Is that a guess? It certainly has been an accusation but I have seen nothing to suggest it’s true. I posted a link to all of the documents and I didn’t see a case of sloppy police work. Information dripped slowly from the press…was that to ensure the impression of shoddy police work in the national conscience?
Coates says there was no immediate arrest. That is not correct. We saw video of Zimmerman in chains arriving at the station where, according to Jack, he was questioned (interrogated) for five hours. His story didn’t change and his story was, according to police, corroborated by witnesses and evidence. The local DA also found no evidence to support a murder case. The case as presented to the state has been laughed at as incomplete and inadequate.
Coates cites Florida’s “expansive” self defense laws. It’s PROFOUNDLY shocking to me that people think of self defense as if it was behavior that needed to be curbed. Do you have even the slightest inkling of how obsurd that is?
These comments are basically meaningless egghead drivel…as I said, with all due respect. I’m sure that in his element he’s (she’s?) a real wizz.
“I haven’t seen the term “white Hispanic” commonly used in the articles and clips I have seen of this story.”
Probably because people saw it for what it was immediately, objected loudly, and they quit using it! It was used in the first story I saw.
“Zimmerman at one point in the audio does seem to say ‘f—ing coons.'”
NO! That was another case of attempting to make Zimmerman a racist. Find the link yourself.
“But couldn’t the case I mentioned have been “exploited” in similar ways?”
Sure…but so what?
” I do not have all that much respect for either of them, but they are not criminals…”
Is that so?
“…and your use of that term has racial implications which I am sure you are aware of.”
Here we go again with the race crap. Any brutish, bullying hooligan, mobster or yob of any race or creed can be a thug…but I guess only if you live outside the PC race conscious box.
Libby: “”White Hispanic”? As opposed to what? The ordinary brownish sort … that are illegal? You guys are deeply, seriously … weird.
Take it up with the journalist(s) that chose to use the term to describe Zimmerman in an effort to make the incident about racial profiling for political reasons.
Liberal a$$ holes, made this thing all about race from day one of reporting. I say day one because it took team Obama a month to find a really good story to divert attention away from his disastrous presidency. You know it sucks when the first “lady” says she wants to walk out and never come back. I say, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out!
You just know with a name like Zimmerman they thought they were getting a race baiting trifecta. A white guy killing a black kid, a hate crime and Jew to boot. Not surprising to most of us at all, they struck out all the way around. Not only is the guy part black, he looks more ethnic than anything else. He is a die-hard catholic, not a Jew. When you strip away all the MSM race baiting spin you clearly see the guy was fully justified in shooting the person who was trying to kill him.
I seem to recall a few weeks back the cops were saying something like Zimmerman was a wannabe be cop but they never gave any details of why they said it. Now it turns out Zimmerman had very good reason to call the police on many occasions and the cops did little to help. Now the cops look like a$$ clowns and needed to cover their butts.