by Jack Lee
Maybe it’s time to rewrite the definition of what is a depression, because in many ways we’re worse off than when we were in the Great Depression. When you consider the high unemployment, the massive federal debt, cities filing bankruptcies, states that are in deficit, then think about all the stimulus spending that prolonged the recession, a person could make a pretty good case for us being in a long massive depression… with no where left to turn. We’ve played all our cards, we’ve cranked out paper money by the trillions, we’ve got interest at near zero and the economy is still faltering I would say its serious. I’m not saying the sky is falling, but I think we need to take stock of how our President has managed our recession and vote accordingly. When our history is written decades from now I think we’ll find we have been sliding into a depression for years.
President Obama recently attended a G8 meeting and pitched the “New Deal” Roosevelt plan to save Europe, can you believe that? What an amateur and he’s apparently learned nothing from history either, that plan didn’t work to get us out of the depression and it didn’t work to get us our of the great recession. Roosevelt’s recovery plan kept America in depression years longer than was necessary because it created debt and interfered with the natural course of capitalism. You can’t borrow your way to prosperity – you can’t spend your way out of trouble by printing more money.
We are running the risk now of getting into hyper inflation because we’ve printed so much money with nothing to back it up. During the depression the gold standard kept government from getting too crazy printing paper money and we didn’t have countries like China owning our debt.
In the 2000’s the United States lost 33% of it’s manufacturing jobs. That’s 5.7 million jobs and this exceeds the rate lost during the Great Depression. But, it’s worse because at least during the depression we had empty factories to return too, but no longer. Those factories are now in Mexico, India, China or some other country that has cheap labor force and low taxes. Government has taxed these companies out of our economy and they will not be coming back. Granted, it was inevitable that we lose some factories to foreign, but 1/3rd of our manufacturing force? Let us not forget that during WWII it was our ability to out produce more ships, planes and guns than the Axis powers that won the war. We survived because we were the worlds greatest builders and innovators, can we still say that? Where do we get our steel now? Hint, it’s not made Michigan anymore.
Total payrolls today amount to 131 million, but this figure is lower than it was at the beginning of the year 2000, even though our population has grown by nearly 30 million.
CONT-
It is natural that we will lose jobs to efficiency methods. If you streamline the assembly line process you’re going to need fewer workers, but there comes a point when automation and unemployment collide and become counterproductive. We’re there and we’re creating too many people that ride in the wagon and no longer pull it. That’s dangerous and debilitating.
Next: We’ve become critically dependent on too many foreign sources that are not our allies and they do not have our best interests in mind.
Dr. Robert Atkison reports, “Measurement of the computers and electronics industry (NAICS 334) is a particular problem. Because of Moore’s law computers get more powerful every year. But when a company makes a computer that is twice as fast than the one it did two years, ago, the government counts it as if they produced two computers. This is why according the government statistics, from 2000 to 2010, the computer and electronics sector increased its real U.S. output over 5.17 times. Compare this with electrical equipment, which saw a decline of 12 percent.
It is hard to believe that the U.S. computer and electronics sector is producing 5.17 times more in the United States than it was a decade ago, given the fact that its employment declined by 43 percent and according the U.S. Census Bureau’s the number of units of consumer electronic products shipped from U.S. factories actually fell by 70 percent.”
“…the gold standard kept government from getting too crazy printing paper money and we didn’t have countries like China owning our debt.”
Our government also didn’t have all of the big social programs to fund or the high numbers of people employed in government to compensate…as of 2010 an estimated $259.3 billion.
“Total payrolls today amount to 131 million…”
Is that total private sector payrolls or just manufacturing? Either way if you consider the federal payroll amount our government is top heavy…unsustainable. Government payroll plus the amount needed to fund dependency plus the heavy tax burden compared to other countries and we have a recipe for implosion. As I contin ually ask of our progressicve friends…WHERE WILL THE MONEY COME FROM TO FUND BIG GOVERNMENT?
Americans need to get smart FAST.
There is a definition for the phrase “economic depression”, which essentially boils down to negative economic growth for so may quarters, which we are not having.
We are having growth, sort of … a little bit, anyway.
You, and others, still cannot wrap your captialist brains around the fact that we are running out of stuff. You won’t face it, because once the stuff is gone, “growth” is not an option.
We gotta learn how to do stasis, instead. Now, people whose brains are poisoned with testosterone REALLY cannot stomach this at all. “Sustainable” anything is anathema to a creature hormonally driven to rip it up and use it up. And then go find something else to rip up and use up.
You can see this playing out in this nation’s “progress” from manufacturing to financial services. Having ripped and torn our physical infrastructure to shreds: dead land, dirty air and contaminated water (and it’s amazing how unbothered we seem to be about this), the capitalists have moved out into the ether, constructed digital kingdoms to rip and shred some more.
So I’m rinsing the soot off my lavender stems, and soon I will be dead. I don’t know what the poor children are going to do with the mess. Will they find a cure for testosterone poisoning, do you think?
Indeed, where? Here’s another home run by Bill Whittle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ
Which stuff are we running out of Libby? Clean water, fresh air, trees for lumber, iron, copper, gold, silver, aluminum or oil? None of them are on the endangered list as far as I know, but I think I know where you are going with this. It’s about oil isn’t it?
The United States has enough known oil in the ground to last us well over 200 years and enough natural gas to double that. If you want to include in coal in our energy reserves, we are really in great shape. But, that doesn’t mean we need to waste these things just because we have an ample supply at the moment… we know that, but we resent being exploited at the pump when its not necessary.
Like most conservatives, I realize it always a wise thing to conserve our natural resources and we do. We’re not zealots ready to destroy the human race in order to save the snail darters or gooney birds, but we get it and we there helping.
A high percentage of us (I’m talking about conservatives) drive fuel efficient vehicles, we have our solar panels, low flow toilets and showers, my home has all energy efficient lights, insulated windows and extra ceiling and wall insulation with an energy efficient heating and cooling system. I’m doing more than a lot of you so called sustainability advocates.
However, I had to laugh when Michael Moore came to Chico State to give us a speech on saving the environment, he didn’t show up in a Prius, he arrived in a big SUV, actually a caravan of three big SUV s. When Al Gore was telling to watch his movie An Inconvenient Truth and selling carbon credits, his own house was using somewhere between 12 and 20 times more energy than the average American household. Nobody on your side when after Al did they?
So Libby, don’t get too full of yourself lecturing us when your side is full hypocrites and charlatans out to fleece the public in the name protecting the environment or global warming.
You talk about “testosterone poisoned brains” as if the right are all a bunch of greedy troglodytes. That’s real funny, but it doesn’t advance the discussion about how we should manage our resources for the future generations. That kind of talk is polarizing, its divisive and its part of the partisan gridlock problem that is consuming too much of our time in Congress, when we could be solving this current economic crisis and so many other things from taxes to immigration.
RHT in the Great Depression there was some fairly good times when recovery started and then it fell back. Just like now, there are signs one can always point too and say we’re fine – don’t worry. But, there are signs, significant signs, that warn us all is not well. The more educated and economically savy of us know our recovery is like a house of cards. Many of the economic signs today are as bad or worse than the same indicators were during the depression. For example, homelessness is today as bad as it was in the 1930. “The report points out this is the highest number since the city began keeping count, and it reaches Depression-era levels.”
What happens when the debt fueled economy runs out of fuel?
The big picture says we could get slammed hard and we’ve got no where to turn because we have played our best hand already.
Hope for the best, but be prepared if the best doesn’t happen.
Jack, there are capitalists on both sides of the fence. Did I ever say there weren’t? And the capitalists on both sides are culpable for the mess.
Nor can I fathom how you got the idea that T-poisoning is in any way political. It is biological, and endemic in the male human population.
Once again, I will ask you to consider that your partisan world view might be a large obstruction to a happy life … and, that it makes you really easy to manipulate. All the polarizing comes out of yer own head.
All I said about the right was that this attempt to redefine an economic depression is not going to fly … cause we all know what that is.
And then I went off into my analysis of the origins of our economic doldrums, which I believe to be way more primal than any political distinction.
Jack: “Many of the economic signs today are as bad or worse than the same indicators were during the depression. For example, homelessness is today as bad as it was in the 1930.”
A couple of other bad signs: other than a brief period in the late 80s/early 90s, the top marginal tax rates today are lower than they’ve been since the beginning of the Great Depression.
Income inequality in the U.S. is also at it’s highest level since 1929.
http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates
http://www.politicususa.com/why-tax-cuts-for-the-rich-killed-the-economy-in-1929-and-are-killing-us-again.html
http://www.gospelpolitics.com/tax-inequality-in-the-united-states.html
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2789
Re Libby’s: “people whose brains are poisoned with testosterone”
I have heard and read some extremely bigoted, condescending, insulting, sexist nonsense from supposed “liberated females” in my day but Libby takes the cake.
When you have no argument you can always fall back on misandry.
Okay Libby…if I have read into too much, then my bad. However, the bottom line is still the same: We are all sharing the same planet, with our limited and not so limited resources and we have our very capable brains that can do so much good, if we choose. I wish we could focus on the big mutual problems and set aside partisanship for awhile.
Chris I get it, taxes must be in proportion to one’s ability to pay… which is why we do have a scalable tax rate. As you have pointed out, at various times those tax rates on the rich were much, much, higher and then we reduced their rates. I admit it doesn’t seem to have had the desired effect of helping the economy or creating more wealth among the populace, but the top 2% have done pretty good! lol Why we did that scaling back part ought to be interesting to explore.
Okay, I don’t think you want to unjustly attack the rich or overtax them into leaving the country. I think you would just like them to pay a bit more than they are currently…to pay their fair share as it were. I would like to everyone who earns more than $18k a year pay a token something. Too many riding in the wagon and too few pulling it is never good, more need to get out and pull. However, along with any taxation adjustments we must have responsible, accountable government spending. That’s the big problem Chris…its a much bigger problem than squeezing more money out of the rich citizens.
Jack, I almost want to hug you after that comment. That’s all for now.
Applause, applause, Jack Sprat!
While I appreciate the can’t we all get along sentiment Jack, it is doubtful that we will ever see Democrats in Congress willing to cut spending in any meaningful way. It will be tough enough to get Republicans to muster the courage.
Chris makes a few good points but he fails to realize that the current lack of jobs and the number of people that no longer have homes are directly or indirectly a result of failed progressive policies. Also our marginal tax rates may be lower now but the amount of revenue flowing to government has grown. Obviously the government doesn’t have to punish with high rates to acquire revenue. In order to balance the budget and end the massive accumulation of debt they need to stop spending, just as you said. We have seen the evidence of fraud and waste. If our politicians would get serious there would be no need to raise rates AND the things that are necessary woudl be more than adequately funded.
One thing is certain. If business doesn’t get the support of government soon there will be very little income to tax.
Heard one telling statistic today (don’t know the source). In the larger metropolitan areas traffic has declined by 30%. Fewer people going to work and fewer goods being shipped in and out. Not a good sign.
Although this article claims that our current economic state is “depression,” I find that hard to believe. Wherever I go, I observe people closely. Collectively, I notice that everyone seems to be doing just fine, as well as my friends who live in different parts of the world and country. I just don’t notice it.