by Tina Grazier
San Diego California school officials have decided to enact a special classroom forum at the start of the school year that encourages middle and high school students to “vent their frustration that the world lacks justice”. They have dubbed the forum the “Trayvon Martin Dialogues” and cite the students “feelings of fear, anger, and skepticism that they will live in a just society” as the reason to hold discussions. A survey that asked teachers how they would discuss the case with their students resulted in several replying they would use the case to discuss “vigilantism and racial injustice”. We can only hope that a few will also discuss the negative influence of popular culture and the primary right of every citizen to self defense.
The forum proposal and the opinion of the sponsor:
The full proposal calls for forum participants to explicitly condemn “stand your ground” laws, which permit citizens to use force to defend themselves in dangerous situations instead of retreating. Florida’s law was erroneously credited with prompting the conflict between Martin and Zimmerman, though the matter never became a significant factor at the trial, since Zimmerman had no option to retreat, according to his official testimony.
The dialogues will “allow students to talk about the world view that prompted George Zimmerman to confront Trayvon Martin,” and “allow students to speak honestly about the ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws that could give one person an unfair advantage over another and the pros and cons of their perceptions,” according to the proposal.
Marne Foster, a San Diego school board member and sponsor of the proposal, said that she had three black sons, and that any one of the could have suffered a fate similar to Martin’s.
“They are still living in a time reminiscent of Emmitt Till,” said Foster, referencing a black teenager who was beaten to death by a white mob in 1955.
I will address the Oprah inspired, erroneous statement made by Marne Foster regarding the times her children live in and Emmit Till in a moment. It’s important to note at this time that this woman, the sponsor of the forum, has already slanted the so-called discussions and announced her agenda by naming it after Trayvon Martin and by calling for condemnation of stand your ground laws which had nothing to do with the Zimmerman defense.
The stated hope for the forum is that the discussions will, “teach kids the truth about Martin and civil rights.” It is doubtful that what has been labeled a teachable moment will teach the kids much truth or be anything more than another propaganda opportunity for race baiting cultural divisivness. Why do I say this? The sponsor attempts to make equal the case of Emmitt Till and that of Trayvon Martin.
We have discussed the Martin killing and the Zimmerman trial fairly extensively at Post Scripts so I won’t go through it again. If there are questions or disagreement we can address it in comments.
Emmit Tills story is worth noting. The account of his beating and murder is mind numbing and should serve as a gruesome and tragic reminder of the terrible injustices that black Americans suffered in our nation’s history. Using Tills murder as a comparison to the events surrounding Trayvon Martin’s death, however, is a disgrace that minimizes the sheer animal brutality and heartlessness that marked the evil of racism in Till’s time.
Racism played no part in the Martin killing. In fact these two cases have literally nothing in common other than the fact that both Till and Martin were young men and both were black.
An accounting of the Till murder at pbs.org reveals that Till was “kidnapped” and “brutally beaten” after which he was taken to the edge of the Tallahatchie River where he was “shot in the head” and then tossed in the river having had a “large metal fan used for ginning cotton” tied to his neck using “barbed wire”. Tills terrible “error” was that he supposedly whistled at a white woman.
Two men were indicted for the murder and witnesses testified about hearing the brutal beating. One was brave enough to point to the accused in court. After only sixty seven minutes of deliberations the jury decided the two men were not guilty and the court set the men free. They stood on the steps of the courthouse and gloated like fools…adding insult to injury.
Again…there is no comparison…these cases are in no way equal.
If the Trayvon Martin Dialogues is fully enacted as described the school system in San Diego will be guilty of inculcating a false racial narrative, inciting division and racism, furthering unfounded white (and white Hispanic) guilt in American youth, and fomenting hatred of whites in black American youth. It will be guilty of participating in and furthering lies that create division. It will be guilty of sentencing youths to another generation of dishonesty regarding race relations.
Racism and bigotry exist everywhere in the world and probably will for many decades to come. But the racist has been shamed in our civilization; we do not tolerate racism in America and our kids deserve better from their teachers.
Questions for San Diego school officials . . . . .
Will the forum be held in a padded room?
Will guest race-baiters/hustlers Sharpton, Jackson, Foxx, Oprah or Obumble be invited to speak?
Will equal time be given for the youngster that was beaten by 3 black kids on the school bus in Florida that those same race hustlers refuse to talk about?
And finally, will Trayvon’s record of brushes with the law be introduced as a subject of discussion?
A little over a year ago, when the Trayvon Martin case broke on the news, I observed a high school English teacher who showed a news clip about the case and asked students to consider the incident in the context of their civil rights unit, which included “To Kill a Mockingbird” and Bob Dylan’s song “The Death of Emmett Till.” While the teacher did clearly support Martin (she was wearing a hoodie that day, which made it hard for me to locate her as the teacher when I walked into the classroom) she led a balanced discussion and made it clear that not all the facts were known yet. And she was respectful to the opinions of students who said that Martin may have started the altercation and it may have been in self-defense. (At this point, no news agency had reported any witnesses who said that Martin attacked first or was on top of Zimmerman at the time of the shooting, so it seemed to many as if the shooting was completely unjustified.)
I would support a more balanced discussion of this case as a school event. My master teacher this semester has suggested that we may discuss it in class. But to host a school event that so clearly takes a side like this is very inappropriate to me. It would be much better to hold a debate so that both sides could be heard.
Tina: “Racism played no part in the Martin killing.”
This statement is just as unfounded as the protester’s insistence that racism was Zimmerman’s entire motivation. We simply don’t know enough to make either conclusion. Those who hold 100% certainty of either position are mostly basing their opinions on personal experience. You’ve never had to really deal with racism, so you assume it wasn’t a factor. Most of the black community have, so many of them assume that racism was THE factor. Both sides are being unreasonable, and basing their conclusions more on what they want to believe than on the evidence.
I believe Zimmerman probably racially profiled Martin, even if he didn’t intend to do so. That doesn’t make him an evil racist. Anyone is capable of doing that.
Not everyone is capable of following someone they think is a criminal with a gun, however…that’s why I think he was criminally negligent. What followed was a logical plausible outcome that could have been easily predicted. If Zimmerman thought Martin was a thief, why would he think he would be above attacking him? (And that’s assuming Martin attacked first, which is another thing we don’t know with 100% certainty.)
The uncomfortable fact that too many on both sides don’t want to admit is that in this case, there is too much we don’t know. That’s why the jury was right to rule not guilty on the murder charge; there was way too much reasonable doubt. This school is taking a complicated case and acting as if it is open-and-shut. That is anathema to critical thinking, which is what education is supposed to support. I am all for social justice and evaluating this case in the context of black oppression, but it is wrong for the cause to overwhelm the specifics of this case, and it is wrong to put George Zimmerman on trial for historical, systemic racism, or to use Trayvon Martin as a stand-in for all blacks who have been mistreated by the justice system.
J. Soden: “And finally, will Trayvon’s record of brushes with the law be introduced as a subject of discussion?”
Will Zimmerman’s? It’s funny how none of the conservative blogs you get your news from have told you about Zimmerman’s brushes with the law, which are more significant in both number and severity, but they are awash with the sordid details of the “black thug’s” more minor teenage mistakes. Almost as if they only want you to have one side of the story.
Good questions all J. Soden!
It occurs to me that if America was as racist as they claim…and particularly those gun toting conservatives…black on white crime stories would headline in the news Instead these stories are buried. This is justice?
Chris: “We simply don’t know enough to make either conclusion.”
Chris that isn’t true. We do know that Zimmerman didn’t say anything about race until the dispatcher asked him what race the person was that he was observing. We know that he has black relatives and is of mixed heritage with a black grandmother. We know that he had a black partner in an insurance business. We know that he came to the defense of a black homeless man that was beaten by the son of a white police lieutenant. We know that his ex-girlfriend testified that she never heard him make a racist remark. Friends told investigators the same. We know he took a black girl to the prom. We know that he tutored black kids and continued to tutor them even after the public funds for the program ended. We know that the FBI investigated and could find no evidence that Zimmerman is racist.
That’s a lot of testimony and evidence in support of Zimmerman that illustrates he is not racist.
“Most of the black community have, so many of them assume that racism was THE factor.”
In the face of evidence to the contrary shame on them!
“What followed was a logical plausible outcome that could have been easily predicted.”
I disagree. Any number of things could have happened that night that would have resulted in Martin remaining alive…many of them decisions that Martin made. He could have run away as his girlfriend suggested. He could have called the police to report Zimmerman following him and waited for them to arrive. He could have simply gone home. All of these alternative scenarios would have occurred with Zimmerman carrying and no gunshots would have been fired.
“If Zimmerman thought Martin was a thief, why would he think he would be above attacking him?”
I’m pretty sure he was aware of that possibility which is another reason to call the police and remain at a distance. His motive was that his neighborhood was basically under siege:
The history suggest Zimmerman’s motive and actions including those of self defense. I do not believe given all of the circumstances and evidence that Zimmerman was looking to use his weapon. The beating he took and the reported screams for help indicate he felt his life was threatened. It is at least the most plausible scenario.
“I am all for social justice and evaluating this case in the context of black oppression…”
I am as long as the evaluation isn’t rife with lies, deception and emotionally misguided or misplaced hatred and desire for revenge!
“…it is wrong to put George Zimmerman on trial for historical, systemic racism, or to use Trayvon Martin as a stand-in for all blacks who have been mistreated by the justice system.”
Applause applause…yes it is.
“It’s funny how none of the conservative blogs you get your news from have told you about Zimmerman’s brushes with the law”
That’s not my experience. I saw his past history of brushes with the law discussed on conservative blogs.
“…which are more significant in both number and severity…”
That’s a bit of a stretch. Zimmerman was charged for for speeding, domestic violence resolve by mutual restraining orders, and battery of a police officer which was reduced to resisting officer without violence and later waived when he completed an alcohol education program. He shoved the officer who was questioning a friend in a bar.
Martin was a teenager with a criminal history that was never reported:
I don’t think given the facts that you can justify your statement of Zimmerman’s history as being “more significant in both number and severity”…not with a straight face. The difference is he was held accountable and Martin was coddled!
Chris If Zimmerman had “Brushes with the law” how did he get a permit to Carry? Just asking.
Did you look up Trayvon Martin on Bing or Google? There are a couple pictures and a profile, his own mother kicked him out of the house as he was out of control.
The media “painted” him as a kid walking home with skittles. Which by the way those along with his drink are ingredients for a drug.
Zimmerman at first did not know what race Trayvon was, the 911 operator asked, he said I think maybe black,
The media and our president created this story, it should never have gotten to where it is.
There are those, including parents, who are taking a different approach. A civil rights group, T.H.U.G. (True Healing Under God), is holding a workshop for black boys ages 8-16 this weekend across the country:
I wish them well and solute the effort to guide young black youth toward healthier, more productive lives.
If during this “Forum” if a kid, black or white has an opposing opinion do you think they will feel free to voice it? Maybe once.
I had to google it but the name of the crap is LEAN or DRANK. Takes cough syrup, skittles and Iced Tea. Back in the early 90’s I was the night guy at Bar-X down on 9th and Main. We sold a hell of a lot of cough syrup. We also sold tons of anti-histamine. People have been perverting over the counter items for a very long time.
Tina: “That’s a lot of testimony and evidence in support of Zimmerman that illustrates he is not racist.”
You’ve never heard a single thing I’ve said about this case.
For the hundredth time: Whether Zimmerman was “racist,” as if people can be easily categorized as “racist” and “not racist,” is irrelevant. Anyone is capable of racially profiling a black teenager. It does not require malice or ill will. All it requires is growing up in a culture which says that black teenagers are to be viewed with suspicion.
I think Zimmerman probably did racially profile Martin. I don’t think that earns him the label of “racist” to be carried around like a scarlet letter for the rest of his life. I am deeply uncomfortable with that term being used to separate individuals we don’t like from the rest of us Good People who would never, ever think of racially profiling anyone even though we all totally do. It’s a way to distract the issue away from systemic racism.
“I disagree. Any number of things could have happened that night that would have resulted in Martin remaining alive…”
Yes, Martin obviously made mistakes as well, but he was a teenager. Zimmerman was an adult. And while there were many possible outcomes to this situation, what ultimately occurred was not outside the realm of possibility. A rational person of sound mind can predict that when you follow someone you think is a criminal while carrying a gun, a situation might escalate and you might have to use it. That is why neighborhood watch volunteers are trained to never do that. Zimmerman knew he was not supposed to do what he was doing, and his actions led to needless death. That’s criminal negligence to me, possibly manslaughter. However, if Martin attacked first, it is not murder.
“That’s a bit of a stretch.”
How? You yourself name three brushes with the law for Zimmerman and two for Martin, which proves me right on saying that Zimmerman had a higher number. And two out of those three for Zimmerman were for instances of alleged violence, while neither of Martin’s crimes were violent. Doesn’t the comparison reflect worse on Zimmerman? Aren’t violent crimes more significant than non-violent crimes, especially regarding a case where a fight escalated into a shooting?
(As I understand it, neither man’s history with the law was allowed to be considered at trial.)
You’re also wrong that Martin’s troubles were never reported. They were, and on mainstream networks such as NBC, but only after they were first reported by the conservative media. In fact, I remember seeing more on the mainstream media about Martin’s suspensions than Zimmerman’s brushes with the law; I only found out about his history from blogs. Though I admit my experience is anecdotal.
I also think Martin’s school was right to handle those matters internally. I am not sure why you think it would have been better to put a teenage boy into the penal system for non-violent offenses.
Chris: “I think Zimmerman probably did racially profile Martin.”
Of course you do. You have been schooled to observe in terms of race!
Zimmerman’s profile to the dispatcher was someone who was possibly suspicious, walking around his neighborhood…he had to be prompted about race to describe the person racially.
“A rational person of sound mind can predict that when you follow someone you think is a criminal while carrying a gun, a situation might escalate and you might have to use it.”
Yeah…like being jumped, punched in the face, knocked to the ground, pinned, and having your head pounded on the pavement! The gun is for self-protection and it turns out it was needed. You just made the case for conceal/carry. And by the way…thousands of teenagers are being killed every year by gun toting (illegally) teens, particularly in Chicago, LA, Detroit, Ne Jersey, New York…so Martin’s age is irrelevant in today’s world and Zimmerman was right to carry for protection as long as he had the legal right to do so, which he did.
“That is why neighborhood watch volunteers are trained to never do that. Zimmerman knew he was not supposed to do what he was doing…”
Zimmerman was observing from a distance and he had been cleared for carrying a weapon. He called the police. He followed the dispatchers direction; when she said “You don’t have to do that,” (follow him) his response was, “Okay.” If Zimmerman’s intention was to chase Martin down and kill him, as the irresponsible and biased media erroneously and repeatedly claimed, calling the police would have been the last thing he would have done. Zimmerman did act as a responsible adult!
As most progressives do, you make your case in order to “create” Martin as an innocent victim and Zimmerman as an out of control (madman) racist.
I believe that the suspicious teen became an aggressor and sadly pushed the aggression to an unavoidable conclusion.
“…neither of Martin’s crimes were violent. Doesn’t the comparison reflect worse on Zimmerman?”
Martin’s record indicates that Zimmerman had good reason to be concerned about his neighborhood. Martin, or any suspicious person in the neighborhood, might have been on drugs, might have been casing the area, might have been intending to commit a break-in and robbery…the person Zimmerman was following was a “suspicious” person.
Martin’s record of being excused by school administrators and the justice system for drug use, associations with gangs, fighting, and what looks like robbery (jewelry and robbery tools in his backpack) did not help Martin become a smart, responsible teen, rather it gave him reason to continue in his destructive behavior. The adults in his life prior to the incident failed him miserably. Our nations infatuation and celebration of gangs and the drug culture also failed him…ultimately his own (indulged) decisions led to his death.
“Aren’t violent crimes more significant than non-violent crimes, especially regarding a case where a fight escalated into a shooting?”
Zimmerman’s prior problems with fighting and gang association are more relevant because he was the aggressor on that fateful night. Zimmerman’s past record is not relevant to what happened. There is no evidence to show he initiated the violence, or was anything but cooperative with the authorities, or attempted to do anything but report a suspicious person to the police up until he was forced to defend himself.
“I also think Martin’s school was right to handle those matters internally.”
There is nothing in the news reports about what they discovered about the jewelry and watch (or the tool commonly used in burglaries) that they found in his backpack but if he was guilty or associated somehow in a robbery you’re wrong. Our schools should not shelter, aid, or abet criminal activity…and to do so for the purpose of keeping criminal statistics about black youths down is unconscionable…it doesn’t help them…and it doesn’t help the community!
Being adult means making tough decisions that often break your heart.
Nobody likes to see young people throw their lives away with repeated bad behavior. All of the good adult intentions and pretending that we can treat bad behavior with soft solutions has only led to worse behaviors and accelerated problems. Adults have to learn to be like gravity when it comes to dealing with youth problems. Gravity doesn’t care. People don’t fling themselves off of cliffs for thrills (unless their crazy) because gravity has taught us that it’s a losing game. If we don’t provide gravity in our dealings with young people they will, more often than not, repeatedly do stupid, dangerous things. Too often our failure to create consequences results in much greater life altering consequences and death.
Our media is complicit…this case never should have come to trial. It was contrived for political reasons and has spawned a whole new level of race division and contention that is based on lies. If you want to be concerned about something it should be this!
Off topic, but still in the area of education I wonder how many 8th-graders could pass this test today. Heck, I wonder how many adults could.
Are you smarter than a 1912 8th-grader? Take the exam and find out.
Century-old 8th-grade exam: Can you pass a 1912 test?:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/century-old-8th-grade-exam-can-you-pass-a-1912-test/2012/01/04/gIQAxjC00P_blog.html