Good News: Border Patrol Told Not to Shoot

by Jack

bp1  New rules for border patrol agents.  They can no longer open fire on a fleeing vehicle, even one that is charging head long at them.  The agents are ordered to step aside and not use deadly force.  

If an agent comes under fire from a barrage of rocks, even rocks large enough to crush his skull…he may not use his weapon, and no he can’t even throw the rock back.  He or she must retreat to a place of safety.   

In the past decade some 19 persons have been shot because they refused to stop as a border patrol agent blocked their escape path.    The border patrol boss says this is unfair to the fleeing felon.

bp2MEXICO CITY — The chief of the U.S. Border Patrol instructed his agents Friday to seek cover from rock throwers along the southern border rather than shoot at them, and to take other steps to curb a spate of killings of migrants.

Border Patrol Chief Michael J. Fisher, under scrutiny from the Mexican government and U.S. civil rights groups over the killings, also ordered agents not to put themselves in the paths of moving vehicles as a pretext for shooting at them.

Fisher’s directive came as the Department of Homeland Security made public its overarching policy on the use of deadly force after a decade of secrecy. The policy is intended to guide the actions of 21,700 Border Patrol agents, who constitute one of the largest U.S. law enforcement agencies.

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16 Responses to Good News: Border Patrol Told Not to Shoot

  1. Dewey says:

    Funny I have a family member in Border Patrol and he is just fine…..

  2. Tina says:

    Funny isn’t a word I’d use when the lives of our agents have just been compromised by “silly” rules.

    These rules mirror the rules of engagement for our troops in Afghanistan under the Obama, smile and retreat, policy that caused US military deaths in Afghanistan to skyrocket. See here and here.

    Hearts and minds have also not been won and respect for American leadership has been lost.

    Dewey I don’t know what your family member does but I wish him/her well and God-speed.

  3. Chris says:

    Seriously, Tina? Citing Allen West, a serial liar, McCarthyite and admitted torturer? The chart he uses to compare deaths in Afghanistan under Bush and Obama is totally misleading. Of course there are more deaths under Obama–Obama sent more troops to Afghanistan than Bush!

    Now you can agree or disagree with Obama’s troop surge in Afghanistan, but I hardly see how you can use it as evidence of him being a weakling on foreign policy.

    As for the subject of this article: Good. Shooting someone who is throwing rocks at you is a disproportionate show of force. From Jack’s linked article:

    “In January 2011, a Border Patrol agent shot across the fence and killed 17-year-old Ramses Barron-Torres in Nogales, Mexico. In October 2012, an agent shot 16-year-old Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez repeatedly in the back while he was on a street in the same city. U.S. investigators declined to prosecute the agents involved, saying in part that they lacked jurisdiction because the victims had died on foreign soil.”

    If you’re outraged by the fact that Border Patrol agents can no longer kill rock-throwing children, rather than outraged that this was a thing that was actually happening, then I can’t bring myself to sympathize with you.

    • Post Scripts says:

      Chris, you accuse Mr. West of the most character damning things, so I checked his bio and this doesn’t even come close to the character you depict.

      Allen Bernard West (born February 7, 1961) is a former member of the United States House of Representatives and contributor for Fox News.[4][5] He is a member of the Republican Party.

      West was born in Georgia and joined the United States Army in 1983. He was deployed to Kuwait in 1991 and Iraq in 2003. In 2003 West was charged in an incident that involved the beating and simulated execution of an Iraqi Police officer. West was fined $5000, and allowed to retire as a lieutenant colonel after an Article 32 hearing and accepting a Non-judicial punishment. [6] The alternative to retirement was to face a Court Martial for assault, with a sentence of 11 years.

      After leaving the military he and his family moved to Florida where he taught high school for a year and worked for a defense contractor, part of his time spent in Afghanistan as a civilian adviser to the Afghan National Army.

      West took office in January 2011 as the first black Republican Congressman from Florida since Josiah T. Walls left office in 1876 near the end of Reconstruction.[7]

      West served on the Armed Services and Small Business Committees. [8]

      Redistricting due to the 2010 census resulted in West switching to Florida’s 18th congressional district for the 2012 House elections.

      Allen Bernard West was born in Atlanta, Georgia, to Elizabeth (1931–1994) and Herman West, Sr. (1920–1986) on February 7, 1961.[10] His father and older brother were both career military officers; West’s father served in World War II, and his brother served in Vietnam.[11] His mother was a civilian employee of the United States Marine Corps. Although both of his parents were registered Democrats, West has remarked that they raised him “very conservatively.”[8]

      In the tenth grade, West joined the Junior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps program and entered the United States Army in 1983 when he graduated from the University of Tennessee. West is the third of four consecutive generations in his family to serve in the US armed forces.[11] He later received a master’s degree in political science from Kansas State University. He also earned a master of military arts and sciences degree from the US Army Command and General Staff Officer College in political theory and military history and operations.

      Chris…. This man has accomplished many great things. He build a military career around his competence, leadership, honesty and high moral character and he would not have risen through the ranks without it! The value of good character, especially in officer ranks, it relentlessly stressed in the Army. They teach classes on ethics and striving to always be of good character, to tell the truth, to be upright in all that you do.

      Mr. West took many oaths of office, pledging over and over to support and defend the United States. He served in Congress and has done many great things for his country…and you call him a liar, a torturer and a McCarthyite? That’s the best you can say about this man?

      Chris by now you know the left will take things out of context, they will stretch the truth, they will embellish, they try destroy their opposition by character assassination all the time and they learned from the professionals, the communists during the cold war. That’s their mentors…what a nice group, eh? And her you are in 2014 and you have bought in to all this leftist BS, tossed balance right out the window and you are acting exactly like another talking head, another mind numb leftist robot…I’m worried about you, you need to regain some sense of balance here. And as I say that, I know nobody is perfect, and Mr. West is obviously not perfect. But, to cast such a great American in such ugly terms is unfair and beneath your standards and if it isn’t you need to raise the bar.

  4. Tina says:

    Special Operations Speak:

    The number of U.S. battlefield fatalities exceeded the rate at which troop strength surged in 2009 and 2010, prompting national security analysts to assert that coinciding stricter rules of engagement led to more deaths.

    A connection between the sharp increase in American deaths and restrictive rules of engagement is difficult to confirm. More deaths surely stemmed from ramped-up counterterrorism raids and the Taliban’s response with more homemade bombs, the No. 1 killer of NATO forces in Afghanistan.

    But it is clear that the rules of engagement, which restrain troops from firing in order to spare civilian casualties, cut back on airstrikes and artillery strikes — the types of support that protect troops during raids and ambushes.

    “In Afghanistan, the [rules of engagement] that were put in place in 2009 and 2010 have created hesitation and confusion for our war fighters,” said Wayne Simmons, a retired U.S. intelligence officer who worked in NATO headquarters in Kabul as the rules took effect, first under Army Gen. Stanley M. McChrystal, then Army Gen. David H. Petraeus

    The Hill:

    Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) on Sunday said that the U.S. military’s rules of engagement have hurt troop morale in Afghanistan and said that he hoped the new top commander there, Gen. David Petraeus, will clarify them as soon as possible.

    The previous commander in Afghanistan, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, placed restrictions on U.S. air strikes and artillery in Afghanistan, limiting the circumstances that allow troops under fire to call for fire support. Those rules of engagement have cut down on civilian casualties, but have been strongly criticized by American troops who say those rules have made the fight more dangerous.

    “…If you’re outraged by the fact that Border Patrol agents can no longer kill rock-throwing children”

    Yeah Chris I just love the sound of dying children. Could you possibly think for a change without spewing from that drama kit you carry around?

    What do you think the border patrol encounters more often, kids throwing rocks or armed and dangerous criminals? What is the probability that a rocks could be used as lethal weapon? Would you say it’s poor…fair…good…excellent?

    You might want to read through this article that includes the following:

    Dying on Duty

    The inherent risks of confronting armed criminals and extreme climates have led to 116 deaths since 1919, when agents served as part of the U.S. Immigration Service. Thirty-four agents have lost their lives in accidental or deliberate gunfire, according to the Officer Down Memorial Page, a nonprofit agency that tracks law enforcement personnel deaths. Auto and aircraft accidents accounted for the second and third leading causes of death, claiming 32 and 14 agents’ lives, respectively. Agents have also died in drownings, duty-related illnesses, falls, heart attacks, stabbings and vehicular assaults.

    Mental Fatigue

    Mental fatigue is a reality of a border patrol’s job. Rookie agents who must work graveyard shifts in isolated Mexican border towns, with poor food and medical facilities, are particularly vulnerable. Faced with temperatures that reach triple-digit ranges, many agents quit. Twenty percent of recruits don’t graduate from the Border Patrol’s academy, an August 2008 report on the Boston.com website states. Nearly 30 percent of all new agents quit during their first 18 months, as well.

    Rock Attacks

    During the late 2000s, agents began documenting the phenomenon of “rocking,” a term coined for criminals throwing large pieces of rocks at them. In 1979, a group of illegal aliens caused a helicopter’s crash by hurling rocks at its rotor blade, “Homeland Security Today” magazine reported in July 2011. Agents reported 793 rock attacks for 2010, according to Border Patrol statistics given to the magazine. Agents cite these figures as evidence of the physical dangers they face.

    This article reports on how dangerous the job has become:

    While most people in Mexico are good, hardworking people, the drug lords are making it more difficult for honest people on both sides of the border. The threat that Mexico currently poses to the United States includes murders, kidnappings, and holding up Border Patrol agents at gunpoint.

    Border Trespasses

    The Mexican military has held United States Border Patrol agents at gunpoint, on US soil, on several occasions. At times, the Mexican military will hold up Border Patrol agents while driving Humvees that the United States government gave them. It is believed that the Mexican soldiers are doing this in order to protect drug runners and migrant smugglers.

    Kidnappings and Violence

    Kidnappings and violence have made life more hazardous on both sides of the Mexican border. Mexicans who have relatives in America are especially at risk, as they are being singled out for kidnapping because it is believed that their family members in the United States can get ransom money. The US State Department warns that the drug cartels have begun to resemble small combat units, using automatic weapons and occasionally grenades. More than 1,000 people were killed in Ciudad Juarez alone last year. Public shootouts have occurred during daylight hours, people have been beheaded, and dozens of US citizens have been kidnapped. Recently, kidnappings have begun to occur on US soil, with their victims smuggled into Mexico.

    Grow up!

  5. Dewey says:

    P.S. I have family executive border patrol……

    Would you like the opportunity to correct your facts?

    As a resident of Chico, visit your local Doug La Malfa Farm and report back please!

  6. Dewey says:

    Mr west is guilty of those crazy things…lol

    Great American? lol I consider him a traitor to human kind

    • Post Scripts says:

      Well of course you do Dewey. I would expect nothing less, but then there are people on your side like Chris and he has moments of clarity, because he has not yet turned completely over to the dark side of rabid socialism. There’s a glimmer of hope for him. It’s why I asked him to reconsider he bias towards Mr. West with respect to his many great accomplishments and service to his country.

  7. Tina says:

    Jack I notice that the stone throwing Dewey didn’t bother to answer your question about his relative in border patrol but did take the opportunity to say hateful things about a fine American who has served his country well.

    There is nothing nastier than an exposed liberal/progressive and man have they been exposed lately, not only as complete incompetents and fools but as liars and deceivers as well.

  8. Chris says:

    Jack, not only were my accusations against West true, you proved the “torturer” charge true with the second paragraph you cite! Why would you claim that my accusations are false and then cite evidence proving that one of them is true?

    As for the other charges, West has claimed that about 80 Democratic members of Congress are “members of the Communist Party.” This would make him both a lair and a McCarthyite.

    You can see his full Politifact file here–his record for truth-telling is not very good. Out of the 22 statements Politifact has examined, 15 have been rated “mostly false,” “false,” or “pants on fire.”

    http://www.politifact.com/personalities/allen-west/

  9. Dewey says:

    LOL Bottom line I will not disclose tactics used on the border…..especially when I am visiting and in Drone range

    Lies? Allen West lost for a reason and spews nothing but lies…… A fine American does not spew lies from elected office. Allen West is despicable

    Liars? You never prove the facts wrong ya just call out names.

    Why not tell the truth? America is a combination of socialism and capitalism.

    To suggest humans are secondary to money is pure evil. Balance is how we prospered before.

    Wall Street is not my master nor will I say destroying this country to supply Communist China energy is OK.

    But bottom line a year ago TP’s wouldn’t even admit they were formed by big Tobacco and the Koch’s….

    Americans voted no …….Tea Party has no respect for the majority.

    Reaganomics failed

    I know better than to believe you have no idea what the real facts are…….It’s all in writing in public and leaked documents

    In this case it is probably a John Birch type problem

  10. Tina says:

    Dewey: “Why not tell the truth? America is a combination of socialism and capitalism.”

    Why make such a stupid accusation. That’s exactly what we discuss daily!

    “To suggest humans are secondary to money is pure evil.”

    The suggestion has not been made. Your prejudice and contentious attitude causes you to interpret and find conclusions that have not been made.

    “Wall Street is not my master nor will I say destroying this country to supply Communist China energy is OK.”

    Goody for you! I don’t know anyone who thinks Wall Street is their master or who supports “destroying” our country by any means. Please stop preaching about putting humans before money if you are unwilling to include Chinese people…they have the same need to prosper, yes? You really shouldn’t preach to other about putting people before profits if you don’t want the Chinese people to prosper. (There isn’t a shortage of oil, Dewey)

    “a year ago TP’s wouldn’t even admit they were formed by big Tobacco and the Koch’s”

    Because they weren’t. The movement shares the same ideas…big woop!

    “Tea Party has no respect for the majority.”

    How arrogant! I’d say the Tea Party is on the leading edge of the next revolution and a return to constitutional principles or at least a move in that direction.

    “Reaganomics failed”

    A lie made even more despicable given the results of the last five years of policy enacted by Reagan’s detractors. One million jobs in one month…match that epic fail boy!

    Notice the following contains statistics taken from the official record.

    CATO:

    On 8 of the 10 key economic variables examined, the American economy performed better during the Reagan years than during the pre- and post-Reagan years.

    Real economic growth averaged 3.2 percent during the Reagan years versus 2.8 percent during the Ford-Carter years and 2.1 percent during the Bush-Clinton years.
    Real median family income grew by $4,000 during the Reagan period after experiencing no growth in the pre-Reagan years; it experienced a loss of almost $1,500 in the post-Reagan years.
    Interest rates, inflation, and unemployment fell faster under Reagan than they did immediately before or after his presidency.
    The only economic variable that was worse in the Reagan period than in both the pre- and post-Reagan years was the savings rate, which fell rapidly in the 1980s. The productivity rate was higher in the pre-Reagan years but much lower in the post-Reagan years.

    There’s a good reason that savings declined. All the money that was in CD’s during the period of high inflation under Carter was unleashed and invested in the stock market and in new entrepreneurial business. The change in productivity can be explained in part by the surge in technology and the failures in the American car industry to compete with Japan.

    Those interested in the Reagan record as compared to the left polices plaguing Americans today might enjoy http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2011/05/05/reaganomics-vs-obamanomics-facts-and-figures/“>Reaganomics vs, Obamanomics: Facts and Figures in Forbes by Peter Ferrara.

  11. Chris says:

    “Reaganomics” has become such an abused misnomer that I no longer feel comfortable using it. The fact is that while Reagan did a lot of radical things I disagree with, like lowering the top tax rate from 50% to 28% in a very short time, he also was willing to make bipartisan compromises in a way that the GOP is totally unwilling to do. Reagan closed loopholes, including raising the capital gains tax to make it equal with the earned income tax. The minimum wage was higher, and he spoke highly about the right to unionize (though he also took some anti-union actions). He was a complicated guy who didn’t always live up to the lofty speeches he gave. He was right to lower taxes from such a high rate, but I think he lowered them too much. His economic record is a mixture. Both liberals and conservatives are guilty of making Reagan a caricature, and it hasn’t done the country any good. It’s just divided us further.

  12. Dewey says:

    “Both liberals and conservatives are guilty of making Reagan a caricature, and it hasn’t done the country any good. It’s just divided us further.”

    Really? I always despised him and bottom line every president after him drank the kool-aide.

    I remember UCSF closing down medical research for it to be privatized. Call it what you want but the income inequality started it’s largest hike after off the graph during this period.

    Every admin is guilty of drinking the kool-aide, Heck Clinton signed NAFTA!

    But it is living in the aftermath we see the results of his policies……..

    So after the conservatives idolized Reagan in the primaries they brought back my memories of the Reagan nightmare. So I make no apology’s for reflecting on Reaganomics nor follow your reasoning.

    Reaganomics put my PHD father out of a job. I was reminded by the crazy Reagan worshiping…..but whatever, I do see the mainstream media abuse it

    I stand strong against trickle down as it only trickled out of the country. As England did when Thatcher died I say Ding Dong! to Reagan

    The last 2 presidents to me were Eisenhower and JFK, Since then they all seem to be puppets on a string

    The divide is engineered

    Citizens United destroyed Democracy.

    Foreign donor money being hidden in 501 4(c)’s

    Why is it OK for long beach naval station to be ran by a communist China for profit? So many real issues and all we see here is Propaganda and hate.

    Get rid of all 3 parties Tea Party, GOP, and Dems…..all they do is write laws in exchange for campaign money

    Bottom Line..How many of you have lived on the Southern border?

    How many here know anything about the border beside what they read?

  13. Tina says:

    Dewey: “Reaganomics put my PHD father out of a job.”

    And he couldn’t find another one?

    I’d be interested to know how Reagan “caused” the job loss.

    Hate? Dewey! I thought you abhorred “hate”!

    The Reagan recovery was fantastic for America. From the link above…I will highlight for the lazy and stubbornly stupid:

    During this seven-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third, the equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany, the third-largest in the world at the time, to the U.S. economy. In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years. Nearly 20 million new jobs were created during the recovery, increasing U.S. civilian employment by almost 20%. Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.

    The shocking rise in inflation during the Nixon and Carter years was reversed. Astoundingly, inflation from 1980 was reduced by more than half by 1982, to 6.2%. It was cut in half again for 1983, to 3.2%, never to be heard from again until recently. The contractionary, tight-money policies needed to kill this inflation inexorably created the steep recession of 1981 to 1982, which is why Reagan did not suffer politically catastrophic blame for that recession.

    Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989, meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just seven years. The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak. The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990, a larger increase than in any previous decade.

    Overall the picture for average working Americans and the poor was very good. Compared to the conditions under progressive policies today we were living in boomtown!

    Bottom line…epic fail boy knows a few things but as Reagan put it:

    “Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.”

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