Posted by Jack
The American middle class, long the most affluent in the world, has lost that distinction.
While the wealthiest Americans are outpacing many of their global peers, a New York Times analysis shows that across the lower- and middle-income tiers, citizens of other advanced countries have received considerably larger raises over the last three decades.
After-tax middle-class incomes in Canada — substantially behind in 2000 — now appear to be higher than in the United States. The poor in much of Europe earn more than poor Americans.
US CEO continue to out distance the their European peers by a wide margin. The parity spread for CEO’s pay and benefits increased by a stunning 750% between 1978 to 2011 compared to average worker wages. CEO’s didn’t have to cry poor for long, as their pay is now back a pre-recession levels. On the other hand most workers can’t remember when they had a raise, according to CNN Money and Bureau of Labor Statistic.
Clearly, this is because of socialism. If we would just embrace the capitalist, small government ways of those wealthier European countries, surely we could regain our spot!
Incredibly the economy and the middle class have suffered and deteriorated drastically under the leadership of the radical left in the last eight years (In the last two years under Bush Pelosi had control of the nations purse). And yet the good little comrades of the left continue to think that left policies are much better for the middle class and the poor…but what possible logic?
IBD reviews a book by a French author and concludes:
That the left has come full circle to celebrating the confiscatory tax rates of the bad old days of the 1970s is a depressing reminder that liberals really haven’t learned much of anything over the last 30 years. In the 1970s, by the way, the combination of high tax rates and high inflation ended with the worst losses in middle-class incomes since the Great Depression. If U.S. politicians are dumb enough to take Piketty’s advice, a depression is just where the U.S. economy is headed.
You don’t have to take money from the rich to create a better life and more opportunity for the poor and the middle classes. They will spend and invest it willingly if you don’t punish and restrict them.
All we have to do is set the rich free from burdensome taxation and regulation. It would put the power of their money to work and through that investment there would be plenty of opportunity for all to work and to grow personal wealth.
Only an envious and covetous people thinks it should take from the rich. It’s a program of theft, pure and simple and totally unnecessary!
In a free country the middle and poor classes can benefit directly from the wealthier among them but only if they are encouraged to use their money (their property) through investments.
That’s what 30 years of Republican economic policy will do for ya, all right!
Tina: “And yet the good little comrades of the left continue to think that left policies are much better for the middle class and the poor…but what possible logic?”
By comparing our country’s policies to the policies of countries that have wealthier middle classes. You know, like you did in the title of this post, but then refused to actually think about.
The countries that have been successful in growing their middle classes were drowning in public government debt and stagnation of individual creativity and industry. Only after they they adopted more conservative capitalist policies did their middle classes start doing better. France is a mess…the people are fleeing the country. Canada is doing better because they shifted to the right!
And Libby we haven’t experienced conservative policy completely in this nation for at least 100 years…we have occasionally been able to reign in government expansion for short periods but the relentless march of redistribution and progressivism has continued throughout. I give you California, New York, Chicago, Stockton, and Detroit…all leftist run and all deeply in debt and failing (CA still has 8% unemployment).
Contrast Texas, Ohio, Louisiana, Provo and Plano.
Our most dangerous cities have also been run by Democrats:
1. St. Louis–Democrat Mayor for the last 61 years
2. Camden, NJ–Democrat Mayor for the last 24 years
3. Detroit–Democrat Mayor for the last 48 years
4. Flint, Mich.–Democrat Mayor for the last 35 years
5. Oakland–Democrat Mayor for the last 43 years
6. Richmond, Calif.–Democrat Mayor for the last 10 years
7. Cleveland, Ohio–Democrat Mayor for the last 22 years
8. Compton, California–no info avail. But has a Lib history.
9. Gary, Ind.–Democrat Mayor the last 16 years
10. Birmingham, Ala.–Democrat Mayor for the last 35 years
Contrast the way crime decreased dramatically under the leadership of Republican Mayor Giuliani in New York. It’s not just a matter of demographics. Conservative policy matters and it works for everyone!
It’s possible that some countries have improved after making slight shifts to the right on things like tax policy, but they’re still nowhere near as conservative as the U.S. It’s about balance. It is possible for a country to go too far left and too far to the right. Actual Communist countries have horrible poverty levels.
This article states that “citizens of other advanced countries have received considerably larger raises over the last three decades.” Are we really going to ignore the fact that in many of those countries, these raises are the results of minimum wage increases? That workers there are treated better and have more benefits than in the U.S.? Are we going to ignore the inverse relationship between CEO pay and worker pay also mentioned in this article, and the implications that has for trickle-down theory?
One of the reasons the middle class is in decline is because our taxes under Obama have gone up leaving us less in our pockets to spend on the things we need and want.
With high unemployment (less people to carry the tax load) and all of the new taxes and the cost of premiums and taxes within ObamaCare the democrats have piled on us it’s no surprise the middle class slid toward poverty instead of prosperity.
Revealed: Obama to collect record taxes in 2013:
“The federal Treasury expects to collect a record $2.712 trillion in taxes on Americans and U.S. business this year, shattering the 2007 high of $2.5 trillion in taxes.
Despite the sputtering economy and sustained high unemployment, the fine print in President Obama’s budget belatedly presented Wednesday revealed that the administration expects to take more in taxes than the Congressional Budget Office projects. CBO put the 2013 estimate at $2.708 trillion.
More shocking in the president’s 376-page “Historical Tables,” is the projection that tax receipts will soar during the remainder of the president’s second term, reaching nearly $4 trillion in 2018, four times Uncle Sam’s take in 1989.”
http://washingtonexaminer.com/revealed-obama-to-collect-record-taxes-in-2013/article/2526886
Tax revenues are expected to double by 2018, which means even more earned money out of our pockets, from those who do pay taxes. With the rising cost of gas, food, etc. the middle class will surely decline even more. Obama’s transformation will be complete. We’ll be a poor nation dependent upon other nations for their assistance.
Peggy not one liberal who posts here can explain how higher tax rates and loads of expensive regulations will create a vibrant economy. None has explained how spending increases and new expensive programs will miraculously be affordable but they sure act like it’s possible.
Chris has tried, claiming that a higher minimum wage would put enough dollars in pockets to spur spending and that would be a big enough engine. He says nothing when its pointed out that this adds pressure to raise all wages and also puts greater expense on the employer.
After five years they will not acknowledge that the extreme redistribution policies of the Obama administration, so loved by the left, actually prevented recovery after the end of the recession for most Americans.
There are many other reasons that the middle class is doing poorly, including the fact that people are uneducated about money. We work against ourselves by expecting it’s possible to live the high life early in life. We use credit to live large and we don’t save. I can’t believe the number of families that eat most of their meals out now. They have to have the big screen TV, the best car…things my parents and I waited to acquire. Worst of all we never learn the number one rule…pay yourself first. A budget should have at the top of the list a savings plan that we treat like the rent or any other bill.
It’s easy to see how ignorance creates a depression. It’s pretty bad when government is out in front making sure it happens. The global redistributionists, which I think is what Obama is, is happy to see the American middle class “put in their places”. It’s about time we found out what its like is a common theme. We weren’t prosperous because we had freedom, worked hard, innovated and took risks. We were just lucky or something.
Bah!
Peggy: “One of the reasons the middle class is in decline is because our taxes under Obama have gone up leaving us less in our pockets to spend on the things we need and want.”
*sigh*
This article comes right out and says that the middle class in America has fallen behind the middle classes of European countries. Everyone, including you, Peggy, knows that most European countries have higher tax rates than the U.S.
To look at that data and then conclude that the reason we have fallen behind is that our tax rates are too high is…just an incomprehensible level of stupidity. And yet I knew it was coming; that’s why I satirized this position in my first comment on this thread.
Taxes. Are. Lower. In. America. Than. Countries. With. Wealthier. Middle. Classes. How many times do you have to read that information before it sinks in? Are you just incapable of processing this information? Is your ideological bubble that freaking impenetrable?
Tina: “Chris has tried, claiming that a higher minimum wage would put enough dollars in pockets to spur spending and that would be a big enough engine. He says nothing when its pointed out that this adds pressure to raise all wages and also puts greater expense on the employer.”
You need to check your memory. I have responded to this argument numerous times.
1) Adding “pressure to raise all wages” would be a good thing. This is literally supported by your own article,which says, “citizens of other advanced countries have received considerably larger raises over the last three decades…On the other hand most workers can’t remember when they had a raise.”
Raising wages for middle class workers in addition to the minimum might help us catch up with Europe.
I can understand why the prospect of being pressured to raise wages might not sound great to a small business owner such as yourself, but I’m thinking about the economy as a whole, not just you.
“After five years they will not acknowledge that the extreme redistribution policies of the Obama administration, so loved by the left, actually prevented recovery after the end of the recession for most Americans.”
Yes, because that’s utter nonsense, as your own article proves. Unless you are going to sit there and argue that Obama has implemented more “extreme redistribution policies” than our European counterparts. I would love to see you try.
It is time for you to do some explaining. You rail against what Obama has done over the last few years and give a few other reasons why you think America is falling behind, but you’re clearly avoiding talking about the countries that are doing better than us. The fact that you refuse to make these comparisons, even though your article invites them, is quite telling. You can’t bring yourself to admit that the countries that are doing better than us right now are all more socialist than we are, because doing so would destroy your entire ideology.
Tina, the two obvious reasons, which you’ve written about over and over here is: 1) the progressive left honestly believe they are entitled to what others have worked for and/or 2) they’ve depended on the government handouts for a large portion of their lives never having to live without it and expect it to continue for the rest of their lives.
The concept that taxes like ObamaCare are provided by some storybook tooth fairy or Santa Clause demonstrates the progressive’s juvenile thought process about the real world. They’ve never grown up to realize who really put the money under their pillow or the present under the tree.
Living within a budget is as foreign to them as learning Latin is today. Budgets are not required any more because there’s always credit cards, bailouts and the government tit to live off of. (I hear talk Obama’s going to bail out Detroit with more of our tax dollars.)
Reading that tax revenues will reach over $4 trillion by 2018, double what it is today, is staggering. I can not fathom how my kids and grandkids will be able to pay those high taxes and still maintain a reasonable level of living.
My taxes tripled for last year. I didn’t understand why when I’d done nothing different, except had some medical expenses I thought would give me a refund. I learned the reason I had to pay more taxes was because of the increases in the percentage of allowed write offs increased from 5% to 9.5%, which wiped out the refund, along with other limit increases. Plus, my estimated quarterly payments for this year also tripled. Leaving me less money to put back into the economy.
Hey, but I’m talking to someone who really understands how bad it’s going to get. I hope and pray every day for you and your business and that you’ll be able to keep your doors open for years to come. Of course my prayers include that ALL progressive in Congress lose their elections and fiscal conservatives take their place.
Grow up Chris. If someone gets paid $10 or $20 an hour it’s because that’s what the going rate is for the level of work, the level of responsibility and the demand for workers.
The government should not be dictating minimum or maximum wages. Let the free market set the level.
PERIOD!!!
Chris to Peggy: ” Everyone, including you, Peggy, knows that most European countries have higher tax rates than the U.S.”
Everyone who has a brain also knows that in Europe many countries have created a friendly business environment, which is why so many middle class jobs have been moved over there! The level of “stupidity” that cannot comprehend this simple detail has to be quite high.
In 2007, CATO:
This site has the global rates.
America is also falling behind the rest of the world on trade agreements. While America fails to compete, sits on the sidelines, the rest of the world is busy making stuff and trading their goods for the goods made by others…and the people have JOBS…amazing!
Talking slowly to our guests doesn’t advance your pitiful argument, Chris. Your problem is you have no experience. All you have is ideology. It is particularly stupid not to at least be curious when another person who does have experience speaks. That person just might know a few things that you couldn’t possibly know.
Chris to Moi: “Raising wages for middle class workers in addition to the minimum might help us catch up with Europe.”
Europeans are doing better since they now have all the jobs! It’s hard to pay people if the conditions are such that you don’t have any work.
“I can understand why the prospect of being pressured to raise wages might not sound great to a small business owner such as yourself, but I’m thinking about the economy as a whole, not just you”
Wrong. You are sympathetic to people without assets, training, education, or hope. Who isn’t? But you do not understand the many dynamics that affect the economy and you have a bias that says business owners are motivated by greed. Add to that the opinions of academics, most of whom have never run a business, and voila! Giving people raises will solve the problem! Here’s a tip…obviously it won’t.
If I accuse you of being stingy, put all kinds of new costly regs and taxes on you, and then demand that you hand over five dollar bills to each family in your neighborhood every week will you be able to do it and stay above water yourself for very long? I know you’de like to help those people out but real world circumstances would get in the way. In the current economic atmosphere that is what it is like…being told we have to do and pay more to please government AND hire more people at higher wages…the impossible.
You are not considering the whole economy because you are not considering what a business needs to stay in business, think about possible expansion, open another franchise, and offer people jobs.
Things works well when they work for everyone. You start with an adversarial position, you don’t care if business is harmed or hamstrung. It’s two year old thinking…you just want.
Can you see how that doesn’t work long term?
Lefties like you mean well. You believe big government can make the world fair. But to do that it HAS to control everything. Nothing dynamic will ever happen under central control. The whole works will gum up, slow down, and come to a sudden stop!
September 2012 article at CNS News:
The Washington Post blows the whistle on Obama’s claims of tax cuts for small business:
This type of tac cut gives the Prez bragging rights and doesn’t do anything to help business in a meaningful way.
Maybe Kevin Jackson’s view will give you pause. (Please scroll down to see the lists of store closings)
Do yourself a favor and step back. It isn’t just taxes its the disparaging remarks the President makes about business and certain businesses. It’s his radical position on oil and coal that keep energy prices high. Its the constant threat of higher costs.
” but you’re clearly avoiding talking about the countries that are doing better than us.”
Not true. I have addressed the differences when the subject comes up. In every case the countries in question got their better records by cutting taxes (Most have been inspired by the Reagan eighties…they saw the growth even if our radical lefties won’t).
The radical left cannot admit that reagns tax policy caused economic growth, lifted many of the poor into the middle class…many of them entrepreneurs, and resulted in higher revenue to the federal government (which congress spent).
Chris everywhere you look, whether a city, a state, or a country, progressive policy have killed the economy and are only turned around when those places adopt more conservative economic policy. My ideology is quite simple and works for every person as well as any government: You don’t spend more than you take in, you save for a rainy day, you don’t promise what you cannot deliver, and at the garage sale you don’t overcharge for that old desk cause nobody will buy it.
The problem with socialism is that it isn’t really considerate, it only pretends to be. Things work when they work for everyone. Socialism pits people against each other rather than encouraging cooperation and symbiosis. Socialism is based on a major sin or fault…theft. Socialism is cold and calculating. It doesn’t consider the whole person that requires dignity, opportunity, a sesne of belonging and contribution. Freedom, the rule of law, and capitalism offer everyone opportunity to pursue their dreams and build wealth. Instead of training people to go for it we have been training them to resent others and feel entitled. Its sick.
I’m out…Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Peggy: “Grow up Chris. If someone gets paid $10 or $20 an hour it’s because that’s what the going rate is for the level of work, the level of responsibility and the demand for workers.”
Except in those European countries where it’s because the minimum wage is higher.
“The government should not be dictating minimum or maximum wages. Let the free market set the level.”
Well, you could always name me the country without a minimum wage law that has higher wages than the U.S.
But of course there are no examples; you’re not talking about anything that happens in real places, you’re talking about what happens in Conservastan, the mythical faux libertarian utopia that exists only in your mind. I’m sorry if my real world examples are puncturing your bubble.
Tina, those European countries do not have lower corporate tax rates than the U.S. The U.S. has the lowest effective corporate tax rate in the world. Those countries with wealthier middle classes have corporations that are paying a larger percentage of their profits to the government.
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/oecd201106.pdf
Chris show me the proof that Europe has no “effective” tax rates before you try to argue apples and oranges.
Our tax rates are higher, period.
The left loves to cherry pick a few companies and pretend it’s the same for all companies in every instance. It isn’t because not all companies buy new equipment or incur other deductible expenditures and no company has the same effective rate year to year.
Additionally, while the complex tax system allows deductions that create a lower, or effective rate, they also cost the company more to file taxes so the savings is somewhat off set by higher costs.
Bottom line…businesses wouldn’t be moving operations out of America if tax rates weren’t higher here, if regulations weren’t more complex and costly to meet, if energy and fuel costs weren’t being kept high, and if threats, like the Jack booted selective tyrannical raid on Gibson Guitar wasn’t going on. This government is hostile to business. This government has a propensity toward fascism (GM, healthcare/insurance, lending-student loans and real estate)
Legal loop holes are an expense for business (And individuals too)…the cost of filing taxes is huge! According to the Mercatus:
You cannot keep ignoring these realities and expect to be taken seriously.