by Jack
My first question is, can we even have critical thinking while high on pot? That really wasn’t the intent of my title, but the double entendre struck me as funny enough to open with it. But, while we’re there, I don’t recall any great epiphanies in history that came while smoking dope, do you? Okay, we’ve been entertained by Cheech and Chong while they’re presumably high, but that’s pretty much the high (no pun intended) watermark for cleverness while under-the-influence. If the real world was a safe and fair place to live I supposed that would be good enough to say, long live potheads! But, it’s neither safe nor fair and we either progress or we die, potheads first.
That’s not very funny is it? That’s because the world is a dangerous place filled with all sorts of threats and injustices. We’re living in a Darwinian world that is more about survival of the fittest. There are national economies that rise and fall all the time. It’s a competitive world. Nobody is anxious to roll out a safety net for a nation gone to pot. Do we want to become another Darwin statistic? That seems to be where we are headed.
Top countries often engage in criminal conduct to get head, like stealing ideas and illegal patents infringements, I’m not advocating that I’m just saying its a tough world and we have be on our best game. Look at China, they are waging economic war on the world and on the US in particular. Global competition is fierce and it’s not getting better, it’s getting worse because failure to thrive can mean the collapse of an entire society. So, it’s logical to say that whatever takes away from our nation’s ability to compete with the rest of the world is probably a real bad idea.
When a bad idea can be good: The State of Washington has legalized marijuana for recreational use, no need to get one of these phony prescriptions like we have in California…just do it or rather just smoke it! It’s a pothead’s dream come true and it’s a huge magnet for their dollars. Now one might think with all kinds of people travelling to Washington to enjoy the altered mindset from marijuana that eventually the State’s productivity in other areas, like Boeing, might eventually decline. And you would be right if you believe in the many past studies on such things. But, this part is offset by all the money pouring into the State of Washington now. This legalized pot idea is an entrepreneurs dream come true. Imagine Al Capone during prohibition and suddenly his state (Illinois) is the only one that can produce and distribute booze legally! What a windfall for Capone!
Now back to the West coast, instead of pot prices coming down because it’s legal the pot business in Washington is too good. They can mark up their product 300-500% over the normal black market street value in neighboring states and it’s still flying off the shelf’s. So Washington is rolling in new found money, and at the moment they don’t need the same level productivity found in pre-legalization days to keep their tax revenues as high as the local population.
But, what happens when the party is over, when almost a third of America is under the influence because pot is mostly legalized? We know from past experience that pot users take more time off work. Okay, so a few days here and there won’t kill us. Then we also know when heavy pot users that are working do not work at the same level of efficiency as non-pot users. Again, not really that big of a deal, because most potheads can still perform well enough to get by. Then there are losses from accidents and a certain impact on our educational system. Accidents, uh, what do I mean by that you may wonder? Well, aside from the obvious car and plane accidents, I really wouldn’t like my heart surgeon to be stoned the day before my surgery when an “oops” would be classified as an accident and I might be classified as, er, … dead. However, on the bright side it might make for a good gag in a Cheech and Chong movie. Hey, my loss – your gain kind of humor. Okay, now lets get serious and talk about education while under the influence. You must realize that pot is soon going to find it’s way into the classrooms at a rate never before seen and to very young students too! That can’t be good for the formative years and besides, we’re dumbing down just fine without adding pot to the equation.
Eventually creativity, education and motivation will be impacted enough that we will all feel and see the difference. But, by then it may be too late to do undo the damage. And worse, in the meanwhile what’s our competition been doing? They’ve not been standing still, I can guarantee you that much! Mostly likely they’ve been taking up the market share we’ve surrendered, and once it’s gone they’re not about to give it back.
So, instead of just thinking only about how the wonderful the economy in Washington state is right now and how everything is doing just fine with legalized marijuana, maybe…just maybe, we should be looking at the bigger picture and where we’ll be in 50 years and make some adult decisions while we still can?
How is this any different than alcohol? Beer, wine,cider and hard liquor have been with us for along time, and some how civilization survived.
Jim, that’s a fair question, but it’s been answered many times. I get the feeling you don’t want to accept the answer because there is some conflicting data out here? I know, it’s confusing, but both sides can’t be right and I’m betting those medical researchers with no vested interest who say, both alcohol and marijuana have dangerous side effects are right. Neither are helpful in society and they can both be extremely bad. Why would we want to add to alcohol, isn’t that bad enough? And what’s the next drug…mushrooms? Where does it stop or should it stop? What do you think?
“President Obama says that while marijuana is a vice, a waste of time and not very healthy, it’s no more dangerous than alcohol. Some medical experts agree, while others take issue with his comments. The president is obviously “not familiar with the science and frankly doesn’t know what he’s talking about,” said Stuart Gitlow. He directs the Annenberg Physician Training Program in Addictive Disease at Mt. Sinai School of Medicine in New York City. “There’s no benefit to marijuana,” said Gitlow. “It’s simply that people want the freedom to be stoned. That’s all it is. And there’s a great deal of risk.”
The two drugs have very different side effects, different long-term effects and different contributions to illness and death in the general population. “I would never try to compare and contrast them on something as absurd as ‘dangerousness,’ ” he said. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/20/marijuana-more-dangerous-alcohol-president-obama/4660555/
One thing we can agree hopefully agree on is people today spend an enormous amount of time and money pursuing marijuana, far more than they did just a few decades ago. It’s a huge time waster and we’re investing heavily into the marijuana culture and I wonder why? It’s like people are pursuing it with a religious fervor. It’s a bad habit that is cult-like and almost every student above the 6th grade can’t wait to get their hands on some. That’s disturbing because we already have alcohol and all the ills that come from that and now we’re adding marijuana. What’s the combined effect going to be? Do you know Jim, because I sure don’t. Why even go there if we don’t have too?
From Scientific American, which most of us would say is more credible than Mother Earth news or High Times magazine, “When THC strikes specific cannabinoid receptors, it triggers domino chains of interacting molecules in neurons that culminate in both unusually elevated and abnormally low levels of various neurotransmitters (the molecules that brain cells use to communicate with one another). The result is the well-known “high” of marijuana. Suddenly, the mundane seems hilarious, and ordinary foods taste delicious. People generally feel merry, relaxed and introspective, although undesirable effects—such as paranoia and irritability—are common as well.
Marijuana also temporarily impairs an array of mental abilities, especially memory and attention. Dozens of studies have shown, for example, that people under the influence of marijuana perform worse on tests of working memory, which is the ability to temporarily hold and manipulate information in one’s mind. Participants in these studies have greater difficulty remembering and reciting short lists of numerals and random words. Research has further revealed that cannabis blunts concentration, weakens motor coordination and interferes with the ability to quickly scan one’s surroundings for obstacles.”
and…
“Such mild cognitive deficits may not endanger anyone if a marijuana user lazes on the couch, but it is a different story when someone takes that high on the road. In driving-simulation and closed-course studies, people on marijuana are slower to hit the brakes and worse at safely changing lanes. Investigators still debate, however, at what point these impairments translate to more traffic accidents. A 2009 study found an increased risk of accidents for levels of THC higher than five nanograms per milliliter of blood, which some evidence indicates is as impairing as a blood alcohol concentration around the legal limit of 0.08 percent. Typically one would have to take several puffs of a joint to reach such a concentration. Consequently, voters in Washington State have adopted 5 ng/mL as the upper threshold for drivers.
Enforcing that limit presents a technical challenge, however. Unlike alcohol, marijuana cannot be detected with a relatively unobtrusive Breathalyzer test. Police officers would have to look for it in blood—something that often requires a warrant. “There is currently no practical method for law-enforcement officers at the scene to collect blood samples from suspected DUI cannabis drivers in a timely manner,” says Paul Armentano, deputy director of the Washington, D.C.–based National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws”
Given the lack of critical thinking on display in this article, I have to ask: were you high when you wrote this, Jack?
Chris that was a bit snarky. You would be better served to explain why you disagree with my overall position, that ultimately marijuana will prove harmful to the USA and will help lower our standing in the world. Tell me why it won’t instead Chris, don’t just shoot at the messenger.
Sorry, Jack, I should have been more specific. There are a few statements you made here that just don’t make any sense.
“This legalized pot idea is an entrepreneurs dream come true. Imagine Al Capone during prohibition and suddenly his state (Illinois) is the only one that can produce and distribute booze legally! What a windfall for Capone!”
Surely you know that Capone’s entire business model was based on alcohol being illegal? Prohibition was the windfall for Capone, not legalization.
“Well, aside from the obvious car and plane accidents, I really wouldn’t like my heart surgeon to be stoned the day before my surgery when an “oops” would be classified as an accident and I might be classified as, er, … dead.”
What makes you think pilots or surgeons are going to be getting stoned prior to flight/surgery, any more than they’re already getting drunk the day before? This is a nonsensical argument; the rules and regulations that apply to legal alcohol still apply to legal pot.
“Okay, now lets get serious and talk about education while under the influence. You must realize that pot is soon going to find it’s way into the classrooms at a rate never before seen and to very young students too!”
It’s already there. If anything, making it legal for adult use might also make it easier to track where and how kids are getting the stuff. It’s true that kids might have expanded access to the drug, much like they have expanded access to alcohol in a post-prohibition world, but I don’t believe that justifies banning pot any more than easy access to alcohol justifies banning alcohol.
Basically, everything you’re saying about pot was said by prohibitionists back in the day. They feared that society would crumble, education would suffer, crime would run rampant, and people would have less motivation if alcohol was legalized. Critical thinking requires examining previous similar arguments for comparison, and making sure your own arguments don’t fall into the same fallacies of the past.
Jack that last bit of law enforcement information my be why some people support the legalization of pot…less jail time fewer fines.
To me it is more than hypocritical that many of the same people that have railed against smoking, drinking, and food choices for decades are now embracing a substance that in many ways is more harmful if for no other reason than the idiocy of tying it to medicine, lending it a sheen of healthful benefit on par with vitamins and minerals. As with most things liberal or progressive the “reasoning” behind the argument in favor is, “Because we want it”
In Colorado they are already seeing an uptick in use among school aged children and that’s troubling. There is scientific evidence that use by young people can damage brain cells and function, “…potentially increasing the risk for schizophrenia and other psychiatric problems.” See also here. Children are the most vulnerable to public pressures and more likely to see themselves as invincible. Without adult voices to counter the pseudo-adult hoopla it is likely that quite a few will be led down a dangerous garden path.
There are also studies that suggest long term use will cause lung damage and then, just for fun we can add cancer to the mix.
If we are going to embrace this narcotic for everyday use then it should be subject to the same level of taxation, the same level of regulation, the same level of warnings and messaging restrictions that cigarettes have and if liberals are going to be consistent they need to quit promoting it as harmless…even healthy.
More info here
I don’t have a particular axe to grind with this drug over any other drug or substance but I do despise the double standards and of course as in all things suggest moderation and responsible use. But it troubles me that Americans don’t seem able to achieve high levels of responsible use, even more so since so many adult aged citizens have chosen to eschew responsible adult behavior in favor of perpetual adolescence.
It would be nice to have reasonable conversations about a great many things, including the legalization of pot, nut I’m not sure its possible in today’s polarized, often liberal and adolescent atmosphere.
The deal is that now we can find out if the problems you are concerned about materialize. Everyone will watch to see what happens in Colorado and Washington over the next couple years. Time will tell.
Re #6 Chris: “There are a few statements you made here that just don’t make any sense. Surely you know that Capone’s entire business model was based on alcohol being illegal? Prohibition was the windfall for Capone, not legalization.”
Again, Chris’ ignorance and lack of ability to think critically (or to think at all) rears it’s ugly mug.
Al Capone was convicted in November 1931 and in 1932 was sentenced to eleven years in federal prison for income tax evasion and violating the National Prohibition Act. In prison Capone was officially diagnosed with syphilis and gonorrhea and was suffering from cocaine withdrawal, the use of which had perforated his septum. While Capone was able to stitch soles on shoes for eight hours a day, he became increasingly incoherent (common symptom of advanced neurosyphilis. By the time Al Capone was released from prison in 1947, he was a diseased and broken man.
The National Prohibition Act was repealed December 5, 1933, a year after Capone was sentenced.
The Chicago Outfit (and gangsters elsewhere) adopted a low profile image after the national attention given to the notorious Capone. “The Gangster Era” of prohibition never went away, it merely transformed. Post repeal criminal organizations moved into gambling and control of unions, but that does not mean they moved out of the alcohol business (as Major Boob assumes), stealing or legitimately acquiring it and selling it. During prohibition money from criminal rackets had already been poured into legitimate business investments and this practice continued post prohibition.
There is no doubt in my mind that had Capone not been convicted, had not suffered from the mentally debilitating effects of neurosyphilus, and had not emerged from prison to a different gangster environment some 15 years later, he would have pulled a Joseph P. Kennedy after repeal. Something that Chris cannot even imagine, even with his (questionable) advantage of a college education in English.
“Imagine Al Capone during prohibition and suddenly his state (Illinois) is the only one that can produce and distribute booze legally! What a windfall for Capone!” I understand the point Jack is making. It is pretty straight forward. Major Boob in his daily zeal to discredit Jack and Tina never will.
LOL Pot being a schedule 1 drug?
That is the issue.
Bottom line the for profit prisons who can not handle real criminals with their untrained workforce needs pot arrests to fill their beds.
Sorry but this was way out there.
Also …. pretending the CIA is not involved in drugs is absurd
Congress has a donor responsibility to profit prisons while immigration detention is their main goal they love people being thrown in for years because of a joint!
Congress has a profit prison quota… everybody knows about it… Congress is no more than a corrupt horse trading biz.
Congress has planned to work about 28 more days till end of year at an average $170,000! What has this congress done? Fiscally conservative? Does that mean do nothing and get paid?
Also I find it amazing you speak of CO and WA when you live on the edge of the Emerald triangle. Do you realize how much pot revenue is injected into the economies of Chico and surrounding counties? LOL
Pot should not be schedule 1.
Why is it ok for BIG GOV to jail a person for medical MJ?
Also I do not smoke do you really think legalization has changed that? If I wanted to smoke I could get a prescription. I do not need one. So Epic fail on the legality changes anything ……except empties prisons
If someone has cancer and pot helps them…. It bothers me none
Dewey, vast numbers of people in “for profit prisons” over nothing more than growing a little pot does not exist, except in your mind. It’s a fantasy. I’ve done the research and in every case the pot violator has a long rap sheet or was convicted of another serious is crime. First time pot offense [rarely] get prison time, especially in CA! This is why you have no credibility here and likely anywhere else. You are too far out for even our most far left commenters to believe.
Tell us Dewey, how many for-profit prisons are there in CA and what is their prison population? And exactly how many are in there for first time pot offenses?
At#9 Pie I have a cousin in New York whose family owns a restaurant…and as late as a couple of decades ago (out of touch since then) were still paying those gents for their alcohol deliveries. Since they own the unions if a business refused to pay up their deliveries just (ooops) magically disappeared. They’re still in the business just from a different angle.
“… but it’s been answered many times.”
Jack there’s nothing in your article that answers. Alcoholism is a scourge, but our attempt to ban consumption was a dismal failure. Likewise with the pot. It’s costing us a fortune to incarcerate people who are no more a danger to society than any liquor store owner.
So we’re going to try regulation, taxation and education, and see if that doesn’t work out better.
Epic Fail Boy’s problem is obvious. The title of this blog post says it all.
Re #12 Tina: Precisely. The Mob and alcohol will forever be intertwined.
To reiterate, let us not forget Jack’s point, “This legalized pot idea is an entrepreneurs dream come true. Imagine Al Capone during prohibition and suddenly his state (Illinois) is the only one that can produce and distribute booze legally! What a windfall for Capone!”
A free wheeling Capone would have been absolutely delighted at the prospect of legally producing booze in a wet Illinois and exporting it to the rest of a dry US illegally at an astounding profit. This is something the English Major, with all of the superior reading comprehension skills his college education supposedly affords him, fails to grasp.
Please note that I am not arguing for or against the legalization of marijuana. That is completely beside the point.
On a separate note, if growers can produced super pot that get a person baked and even hallucinating on a single inhalation of the drug (and this is the desired result of every pot head I have ever known), imagine if plant breeders went the opposite direction? What if cultivators or gene splicers developed a pot so weak that you would have to smoke and entire acre to get high, and most of the high would be from holding your breath?
Such hemp would be an excellent source of valuable, sustainable, and much needed plant fiber.
“Learning without thought is labor lost.” – Confucius
FYI, Pie, there already is an “industrial” hemp that everybody grows but us, and that could save the planet. The stuff sucks up CO2 better than redwood trees, and you can burn hemp oil in an internal combustion engine (of course, Big Oil don’t think much of that).
But our Congress is just flapping its chicken wings: “it’s pot! … its pot”. Bunch of ignoramuses, on top of everything else.
… rolls a big fattie of industrial hemp for Libby. Remember to hold your breath until you turn blue …
Why on earth do you think oil companies do not think much of plant fuels??? (Rhetorical, I already know the reason, you are a complete idiot.) Oil is their business, no matter where it comes from. Put that in your hooka and smoke it.
Oil companies are heavily invested in biofuels, you ignorant, silly left wing pot head moron –
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970204731804574386960944758516
I wonder if this is how Pie speaks to people in day-to-day life.
“and that could save the planet.”
Oh please! The planet is just fine and will be just fine long after we are gone.
Entrepreneurial innovation is always welcome and if it is workable and inexpensive people will naturally embrace it.
You don’t have to sell good products with scare tactics but your bigotry causes you to think some people are not interested in clean air and water so you do…such nonsense.
Tina, read this:
“You don’t have to sell good products with scare tactics but your bigotry causes you to think some people are not interested in clean air and water so you do … such nonsense.”
Does it make any sense to you?
Libby in the context of your snarky comment:
…
Yes, it does make sense!
You and your lefty pals have been scaring the public with outlandish lies about the damage that our use of oil and coal has caused or will cause and outlandish lies about how oil and coal companies live to pollute the air and water! On the back of these lies you advocate for hemp, a product that if it delivers the benefit you claim, will be embraced by the public without the lies. It doesn’t occur to you that the hemp growers/investor help to float these lies as a means of damaging the competition (coal and oil) TO MAKE FILTHY LUCRE (MONEY).
Liberals are just as money GRUBBING as the next guy; they just prefer to cheat, lie, and engage in deception to make it.
You are all such phonies!