Posted by Tina
I was reading an article today and ran across the following opinion. It made me wonder what some of you might think of it…will the usual dynamic be turned on its head in the next election?
“…moderate candidates in the 2016 race look unelectable—Chris Christie for his unnecessarily combative statements and whiff of corruption, and Jeb Bush for his support of amnesty and backing of Common Core. With Christie and Bush appearing unacceptable, 2016 might be the first year where the Republican electoral dynamic is turned on its head; rather than the base having to choose the most palatable option among establishment candidates, the establishment will have to stomach someone whose political roots spring from something closer to the Tea Party.” – Scott McKay – The American Spectator
Wouldn’t it be cool if the establishment Republicans found themselves playing catch up, challenged to get on board or be left in the dust, for a change?
Gohmert/Palin! 2016 Now that would be fun!
History does not support this position. Both Romney and McCain started losing ground when they embraced Tea Party rhetoric and politicians. Sarah Palin was the death knell for McCain, the 47% comment (which echo Tea Party rhetoric) was the death knell for Romney (the Ryan budget didn’t help). If you want to win a national election you have to appeal to more than just the conservative base. Hell, even Reagan took many positions that would now be seen as heresy by the conservative base (gun control, cap and trade, raising the capital gains tax to be equivalent with income tax). The Tea Party is not the answer.
Look we do not pick the candidates…..
GOP will use the Tea party for their circus.. at this point Jeb, Romney, Christie, (Huckabee coming) are their front conversation
Democrats? Hilliary Monsanto Clinton and……. a few lurking to primary
Independents? Bernie Sanders is being pushed a little by the base as well as warren who is not running
Tea party seems to like Raphael ted cruz..but they are too chicken to stand up and run as a 3rd party…. (for the life of me I do not understand as he just makes crap up)
Unless Americans turn off the TV and spend the energy vetting candidates and campaigning on social media while the billionaires run their media war full of lies and just pure mean ugly unchristian like campaigning …. we will stand at the poll and vote for our version of the lessor of 2 evils…
The 2016 political games have already started.
Ted Cruz is joining Glenn Beck to deliver $2 million worth of supplies including toys to the illegal kids on our border and the press is absolutely silent.
The left and GOP establishment can’t have a Tea Party candidate who wants to close our border to illegal immigration and have a heart to still want to help those who came here because of Obama’s 2012 amnesty carrot.
Why Glenn Beck Says ‘Nobody’ Is Covering Ted Cruz’s Decision to Join Mercury One’s Border Relief Effort:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/18/why-glenn-beck-says-nobody-is-covering-ted-cruzs-decision-to-join-mercury-ones-border-relief-effort/
Let the games begin.
Save the children!!
“Sarah Palin was the death knell for McCain…blah blah blah”
Sarah Palin was a HUGE THREAT to the Obama campaign because she was an attractive woman that connected with the people.
Democrats and the slobbering-for-Obama left media had to take her out (like the thugs they are) and so began Saul Alinsky kill technique #12 on her before she had completed her acceptance speech.
They badgered her, they attacked her children, they were petty about her clothes, hair and makeup, they made fun of her and her family, they followed her, they grilled her neighbors, they spied and rummaged through her garbage. They lied about her abilities and achievements. They filed one law suit after another to keep her tied up in court
No other person up for office has ever been treated like this. Any Democrat woman treated like this would result in howls but feminists were out in front to tear Sarah Palin apart. Phony B’s!
Ditto the Tea Party. Most Americans don’t have any idea who or what Tea Party people are…what they have learned is all left wing generated LIES!
Democrats don’t win because their ideas work; they win because they get away with demonizing the opposition,they play divide and conquer, and they toss down the race/bigotry card every chance they get.
Filthy cowards!
The Ryan budget was a damn site better than anything put in place in the last five years…the Democrat Party is a complete bust on the budget, the economy, the debt, the dollar, and jobs.
Considering the record numbers in poverty, and the women, college grads, and minorities experiencing very high unemployment rates you would think Democrats would hide their heads in shame. I don’t know if its just arrogance or blatant stupidity but they don’t…they continue to beat the drum that has given us lousy growth, massive debt, and another transfer of wealth program that will also add to the debt long term just like SS and Medicare/Medicaid do year after year.
That was then…this is five years later.
Tina: “Sarah Palin was a HUGE THREAT to the Obama campaign because she was an attractive woman that connected with the people.”
When you say “the people,” who do you mean? It’s true that Palin connected with SOME people, but she was extremely alienating to others. (All that talk about how California and New York aren’t “real America” will do that.)
Like I said: being extremely popular with the conservative base does not win national elections.
It is true that many Democrats were unfair to Sarah Palin. It is true that a lot of this unfairness manifested in blatant sexism. And it is true that some lied about her.
None of that changes the fact that Palin is a Class A moron with a martyr complex, willing to use Alinsky tactics herself (“death panels!”) in order to tell incredibly stupid lies about her own opposition.
She was discredited on her own merits, or lack thereof.
Did you see her this week calling for impeachment, comparing herself to a battered woman saying “No mas?” It was hilarious. As was Stewart’s takedown of her apparent belief that the real victim of the influx of children fleeing their home countries is…Sarah Palin.
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/739w4w/bad-impeacher
Chris: “It’s true that Palin connected with SOME people, but she was extremely alienating to others”
Name a candidate who doesn’t alienate “others”!
Of course I was speaking in general terms and before you get all snooty again remember Obama didn’t get all of the votes. Plenty of people were turned off by Obama’s statement to Joe the plumber! Obama had his skin color as an advantage going in, “historical presidency” won him a lot of votes. But it is also true that:
1. Obama was never vetted.
2. Obama was 100% supported by the press.
3. Obama never had to compete.
Also, please remember being popular with the Republican/conservative base has won 10 out of the last 16 elections and the terms liberal and conservative have never been used to the degree that they are used now and Obama has done a lot to further damage the word liberal in the last few years. The sheen has worn off the guy who could once speak well and connect with people when he had no track record and has shown he can’t lead his way out of a wet paper bag. (Are you really too dumb to notice?)
Your experience of the people is also a bit shallow.
“And it is true that some lied about her.”
Name one that gave her an honest appraisal. While you are at it tell us what any of them reported of her accomplishments other than the boiler plate, PTA to Mayor to Governor.
Your own version of how she discredited herself includes a personal slur and a statement she made after the election, neither relevant to this discussion. Perhaps it is you who is the “moron”…”class A.”
Stewart? Oh yeah…a real serious commentator, a “non-class A moron,” just like you…Pathetic, Chris!
Sarah Palin’s statement, see here, compared the American people to a battered wife who has given an abusive spouse chance after chance to treat her with respect and who is now confronted with another abusive event (thousands coming across the border and Obama asking the mayors of cash strapped towns to take these kids in). It’s not a bad comparison considering:
Five years of poor leadership resulting in chaos in our healthcare, lying to the people, a democrat super majority Congress using dirty tricks and lying to get the ACA passed, veterans dying for lack of prompt care, high rates of poverty, high unemployment, a dying middle class, businesses dying or running overseas to escape uncompetitive tax rates and punishing regulations, rising prices on goods and services, high gas prices, punishing the coal industry, millions wasted on green energy projects like Solyndra, increasing the Pigford “distribution” list to numbers greater than the number of farmers, the Benghazi scandal, playing the race card and dividing America, the IRS, DOJ, NSA, FCC, OSHA scandals, Fast and Furious, attempts to limit/control gun ownership, using the power of government to control lending, corporatism, spying on journalists, burgeoning debt, a foreign policy in chaos in a world falling to wars and strife, treating our friends as enemies and our enemies as friends…is there ever an end to the abuses of power, failure to uphold the Constitution and rule of law, failure to serve the people, putting politics, ideology and party over his sworn duty and the incredible damage to individual people’s lives that this man is doing?
Nixon was impeached for far, far less! (Obama is a black man so it probably won’t happen to him…but does that signal equality for blacks? Hell no! It means liberals are still treating blacks like second class citizens and using them for political purposes. If a black man can’t be criticized or held accountable he ain’t equal).
Your scorn will not cover the truth…stop trying.
“1. Obama was never vetted.”
Tina, what do you mean by this? What types of scrutiny have other candidates been subjected to that Obama was not? I remember that Obama was questioned a lot about many aspects of his life. The pastor scandal was in the news for quite a while before election day. He was pressured into releasing his legal birth certificate before the election as well, something I don’t recall most presidential candidates ever having to do. Palin’s “palling around with terrorists” charge got a lot of press, and his connection with Ayers was explored. It seems to me that Obama was subject to the same level of scrutiny as everyone else. What more do you believe should have been done?
“2. Obama was 100% supported by the press.”
Certainly you don’t actually believe this, unless you aren’t counting FOX News or any other conservative outlet as “the press.” I will admit that there was a media bias in favor of Obama, and at least some of that had to do with his race, but there was also a LOT of negativity coming from the other side. There was no shortage of negative press about Obama in 2008, and this was covered by both traditional and non-traditional media.
“3. Obama never had to compete.”
I don’t know what this means. Are you saying that McCain/Palin weren’t real competition?
“Also, please remember being popular with the Republican/conservative base has won 10 out of the last 16 elections”
I don’t see how going back over 100 years is at all relevant to today. I think looking at the last two elections is a bit more relevant to judging how political attitudes will influence the next election.
And as I’ve said, Reagan supported a lot of policies that today would be considered liberal. He supported cap and trade and the Brady Bill, and he raised the capital gains tax. None of these are favored by the conservative base today. Conservatives have been moving further to the right and away from the mainstream.
“Name one that gave her an honest appraisal. While you are at it tell us what any of them reported of her accomplishments other than the boiler plate, PTA to Mayor to Governor.”
Huh? Are you asking me to name just one reporter who treated Palin fairly? That’s a bit ridiculous. I feel that Katie Couric was perfectly fair in her infamous interview with Palin. It wasn’t Couric’s fault that Palin couldn’t think of any newspapers off the top of her head, or that she couldn’t seem to complete a sentence without going off topic and babbling.
“Stewart? Oh yeah…a real serious commentator, a “non-class A moron,” just like you…Pathetic, Chris!”
Funny, coming from someone who thinks the pinnacle of satire is Rush Limbaugh. I don’t expect you to like or even understand actual satire.
Palin’s comparison was offensive and stupid, as was her bizarre choice to slip into Spanish for two words. She did not come off well.
At least half of the sins and scandals you just listed about Obama are imaginary, and they’re also not relevant to this conversation. Your argument is that the next Republican candidate needs to skew even FURTHER to the right in order to win the presidency. That is a completely unsupported assertion, and if your party embraces this strategy, you are going to lose the third presidential election in a row.
Chris, apparently you believe Obama was subjected to the same level of scrutiny as past candidate for this office. I think we knew less about this candidate than any since WWI. His association with Rev. Wright was only the beginning. We should have known who paid for his education and we should have had access to his thesis for his post grad work. Why? Because this man has a very limited history. We really needed to know more about his history….from wherever we could find it. His Mom was a liberal kook and her associations and some of Obama’s mentors were highly questionable characters.
Re college…I think it’s important to know if a person plagiarized his thesis or any of his post grad work. We’ve caught other candidates doing that and it cost them, but so much about Obama’s education was closed to the public view for reasons that I still don’t understand. As time goes on all our questions will be answered, but by then we’ll all be long gone!
Several prominent conservatives agreed that Couric’s interview was fair, including Mike Huckabee:
“Now I must say I did not think that … the Katie Couric interviews were unfair. In fact, if anything, Katie Couric was extraordinarily gentle, even helpful. [Palin] just … I don’t know what happened. I can’t explain it. It was not a good interview. I’m being charitable.”
National Review editor Rich Lowry and Rod Dreher of the American Conservative agreed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin_interviews_with_Katie_Couric
Palin’s bitter comments about Couric after the interview, in which she blamed Couric for her performance and accused her of bias, were even more shameful than her initial performance. It’s sad that someone who claims to stand for personal responsibility and accountability has so little self-reflection that she feels the need to lash out against others for her own failures.
Ex-CIA Operative: Obama Never Properly Vetted:
Discussion between Charlie Rose and former news anchor Tom Brokaw days prior to the 2008 election
Obama’s staunch secrecy in locking down the ordinary records of his past (passport, education, hospital, medical, vital, etc.)
The Atlantic tool on the accusation that Obama had not been properly vetted, citing a NYT piece that read:
Mr. Obama also fit in at Hyde Park’s fringes, among university faculty members like Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, unrepentant members of the radical Weather Underground that bombed the United States Capitol and the Pentagon to protest the Vietnam War. Mr. Obama was introduced to the couple in 1995 at a meet-and-greet they held for him at their home, aides said.
Now, along with Mr. Obama’s former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., Mr. Ayers has become a prime exhibit in the effort by Mr. Obama’s presidential rivals to highlight what could be politically radioactive associations. In 2001, Mr. Ayers said he did not regret the Weatherman bombings.
It reads like a dispationate accounting of the contents of his suitcase.
In contrast a negative tone and attitude, negative hype and senationalism were tools used against Palin in the press. Any revelations about Obamas past from, the right were and still are met with dismissive contempt to discredit from the getgo.
The Atlantic goes on to defensively say that, “American voters circa 2008 were presented with more biographical stories about the early years of Barack Obama, including the politics of his Kenyan father, the time he spent as a child in Indonesia, the relationship with Antoin “Tony” Rezko that was the subject of another 2007 New York Times story, and the youthful drug use that has been mentioned in multiple Times stories over the years, than it has about anyone it has ever elected to the presidency. The press obsessed over his biography, right down to re-reporting his autobiography.”
Which is absolutely true…but they never questioned any of it…instead they swooned! And they openly promoted candidate Obama.
American Thinker looked at the vetting process:
Accuracy in Media looked at the vetting process:
One Obama voter expressed what she believed was true about Obama the candidate. She wouldn’t have had that impression if the media had been treating Obama as any other candidate. (She has since educated herself)
And before I leave I want to remind you that Obama also made another remark that was a turn off to many rural voters in 2008: “they get bitter” and “they cling to their guns and religion” .
Sarah Palin was right about how badly the Couric people treated her in that interview (see editing)…as did others.
Charles Gibson’s people at ABC edited her interview to make her look stupid.
That isn’t coverage and it sure doesn’t show a media willing to vet the candidates fairly! It is sabotage, pure and simple.
OMG Palin? really? Well that says it all!
I’s like to thank palin for all the great SNL material!
I did not want any of the candidates we had a choice of. One thing I am glad of is that John McCain is not in the white house our debt would be through the roof as the military contracts went out… and all their paid for by election money “Israel” talk the USA would have ramped up those subsidies to Israel for their arms testing in Gaza.
So why is it the Tea Party does not stand on their own 2 feet and run as a 3rd party? If you run as Tea Party then you will not have to deal with “OTHER PEOPLE” from the left or the right!
Oh, brother.
Jack: “We should have known who paid for his education and we should have had access to his thesis for his post grad work.”
Is this common for presidents and presidential candidates? Which others have made this information public? Which have not? This seems petty.
“His Mom was a liberal kook and her associations and some of Obama’s mentors were highly questionable characters.”
And all of this was widely known before the election.
“Re college…I think it’s important to know if a person plagiarized his thesis or any of his post grad work.”
Why? Is there any evidence at all for this accusation?
Tina, nearly all of the info about Obama mentioned by your links was widely known before the election. Much of it was in Obama’s book for goodness sakes! The notion that Obama has been more secretive about his past than other past presidents just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
Another view of a real leader with solutions to two of our problems created by Obama.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QlB_tP5aOpU
Simply put: The “Obama wasn’t vetted” excuse is designed so that the “party of personal responsibility” can blame the media for their own failures. This way, they don’t have to admit that they have lost the past two elections because the majority of voters simply didn’t like their ideas. It’s not the fault of conservatives that they are seen as out of touch and callous towards the poor and needy; no, it’s the fault of the media. Even when all the media does is broadcast a Republican candidate’s exact words calling half of Americans irresponsible and entitled people who will never take care of their own lives, it’s not the candidate’s fault, it’s the media’s.
Chris: ” It’s not the fault of conservatives that they are seen as out of touch and callous towards the poor and needy; no, it’s the fault of the media.”
I realize finding fault is the only thing you know but you might try simply observing once in awhile.
I have said on more than one occasion that conservative candidates are not very good at selling themselves and their ideas.
But it’s also true that selling the public on personal responsibility, self reliance, hard work…even freedom is difficult in a nation that has gotten used to being taken care of by the government and a society that advocates doing whatever you like because somebody else will be there to pick up the pieces for you. It isn’t easy when your opposition (liberal) candidate is “popular” because he promises to be your Fairy Godmother, Santa Clause, connection, and bail bondsman all rolled into one. Add to that a media that will see to it that the Fairy Godmother, et al, looks like a saint and you the worst kind of villain.
We are making inroads in the media sphere and we are learning to meet liberal destroyers sling for sling and arrow for arrow. We have a da#n good role model for selling ourselves and our ideas in men like Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan. How to overcome years of misinformation and propaganda in our schools is another challenge yet to be addressed but we are working on that too.
These are not excuses. These are the walls republican candidates must climb to win.
Bill Clinton and Barack Obama did not have to climb those walls. They didn’t have to fend off personal attacks either…the old media does that for them.
I wouldn’t be too sure that you speak for the majority, either, when you say Republicans are seen as callous to the poor and the needy. If the reality and record were ever truly discovered, and we’re working on that too, it would be obvious that Republicans don’t feel sorry for the needy and the poor because we see them as capable and we know that emotion alone, at the representative level, is useless and does nothing to uplift people. Bill Clinton could “feel your pain” but what did that do besides make him “popular”?
Republicans want every person in America to succeed to the best of his ability and beyond if fate and his ambitions allow. We believe if a poor person is in need what is given should put him on a path to self sufficiency and greater opportunity.
What’s happened to you, Chris, makes me sick…literally. You actually believe the nasty things that lefty operatives say because we dare to suggest that changes might be in order after seventy years of failure and when so many people who could be productive and happy are stuck in ghettos, gangs, jails. Some of them should be business…others should be proudly working for them.
The goal to divide American has certainly worked with you. Not only do you not value freedom, the very foundation of this nation, but you are willing to believe that only the Marxist system will do and only those who support it care. You have been molded rather than educated and its a sad sad thing to see.
I don’t see how you can say theaffect of the remarks made by Romney are his “fault” when he was speaking in a private meeting and the remarks were taped and replayed in the media by someone who was obviously playing for the other side.
Romney is responsible for his words…he is even responsible for what happened, although he had no control. But the person recording him is responsible too and…
The left/left media is responsible for distorting the meaning for their own political purposes.
This incident was no more damaging than were the things Obama has said and yet Obama manages to fly above it all untouched. Do you really think that is an accident…or a function of Obama being the better candidate? No, Chris, it is a function of promotion in our media of a single candidate, Obama, and the vilification of the other, Romney. Our media is not supposed to work that way. It doesn’t serve the people or our nation.
Observe without finding fault or awarding credit…if you can.
(This post has been updated and corrected)
First:
“I have said on more than one occasion that conservative candidates are not very good at selling themselves and their ideas.”
Then:
“But it’s also true that selling the public on personal responsibility, self reliance, hard work…even freedom is difficult in a nation that has gotten used to being taken care of by the government and a society that advocates doing whatever you like because somebody else will be there to pick up the pieces for you.”
Tina, do you not see the problem here? It’s not that Republicans are bad at delivering their message. We know exactly what your message is. You’ve made it very clear, both in your above comments and elsewhere. The problem is that your message blows. Your message is that poor people are lazy and entitled, and if we just stopped being lazy and entitled, things would be better. That’s a shitty message! And no matter how you repackage it, it’s always going to be a shitty message. Not just because it’s offensive or insensitive. But because it’s not true. The majority of Americans, even those living in poverty, are trying the best they can. They are working hard. It’s. Not. Enough. The system is rigged against them.
“Bill Clinton could “feel your pain” but what did that do besides make him “popular”?”
You’re right. Other than making him popular, rapidly shrinking the poverty rate, and creating a surplus, Clinton’s policies for the poor did nothing.
“The left/left media is responsible for distorting the meaning for their own political purposes.”
The left did NOT distort the meaning of Romney’s 47% comments. Romney said that 47% of the country was irresponsible and entitled, and would never take care of their own lives. So that’s what the left media reported. Because that is what he fucking said.
“This incident was no more damaging than were the things Obama has said”
Obama never directly insulted half the country. The closest comparison is the “bitter,” “cling to their guns and religion” comments, but even there Obama said that he was going to work to change those people’s minds–he didn’t completely write them off, as Romney did to 47% of Americans.
You have no capacity for self-reflection.