Posted by Tina
Citing new research the Economist Magazine has posted a provacative article this morning titled, “Lying Commies,” in which it claims that the more people are exposed to socialism the worse they behave. The study centered on a game where participants rolled a die forty times and recorded the result of each roll:
After finishing the game, the players had to fill in a form that asked their age and the part of Germany where they had lived in different decades. The authors found that, on average, those who had East German roots cheated twice as much as those who had grown up in West Germany under capitalism. They also looked at how much time people had spent in East Germany before the fall of the Berlin Wall. The longer the participants had been exposed to socialism, the greater the likelihood that they would claim improbable numbers of high rolls.
The study reveals nothing about the nature of the link between socialism and dishonesty. It might be a function of the relative poverty of East Germans, for example. All the same, when it comes to ethics, a capitalist upbringing appears to trump a socialist one.
Works for me and mirrors my experience of socialists, particularly of the radical variety. In fact this is one of the things discussed by Alinsky in Rules for Radicals, see here and here:
Saul Alinsky misquotes and misrepresents everybody from Dostoevsky to Gandhi in his book. He presses into service figures from the Bible from Moses to Jesus Himself in an effort to make the reader believe that these figures would be in sympathy with him and his tactics. I’ll get to the others as we go on, but here’s what he does to Dostoevsky. Alinsky says the “organizer” should work within the system. Why? “Because taking a new step is what people fear most.” (Rules, page xix)
“Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people.” (Rules, page xix)
Revolutionary change? Weren’t we talking about community organizers? Why, yes, we were. And this is what Alinsky’s organizers are: people who work at organizing groups of people for a cause (any cause, doesn’t really matter; see page xxiii) who can then be used for whatever action the leader has in mind down the road. Any action. We’ll see later just what actions Alinsky has in mind.
Back to his mangling of Dostoevsky. The brief line Alinsky is “quoting” is from chapter one of Crime and Punishment (5th paragraph down) and the change referred to is this: the main character, Raskolnikov, is considering a plan of action to get him out of a desperate situation and he is trying to talk himself into going through with it. Going through with what, you ask?
Murder.
Raskolnikov owes an old woman some money and he can’t pay it back and he decides to kill her. To murder her in cold blood. He’s trying to talk himself into committing this horrible act of violence. That’s the “new step” that he fears. The “new step” that Alinsky wants to help his team of “organizers” help their communities to take. The “new step” of the brave new world of modern ethics. The not-so-new step of pretending that the ends justify the means. That any act is justifiable, any means allowable, if only I want the end bad enough.
See also, PJ Media:
Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical; from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins — or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.
Thus Saul Alinsky begins Rules for Radicals, his impassioned 1971 missive to the political counterculture which had been galvanized into protest mode during the Vietnam War. I was one of the radicals for whom the book was written, though now I am a conservative mom and grateful American. I began blogging of the Obama-Alinsky connection during the 2008 presidential campaign, and given Obama’s history and his surrounding himself with characters from that Chicago/community organizing/dirty politics nexus, it was difficult for someone with my roots to think anything but the worst about the subtext of his message and his methodology. …
…if you know your Alinsky and are beginning to fathom the extremism of Obama’s czarist empire, it should seem no surprise at all.
Saul Alinsky was the founding father of community organizing. And Obama’s team of Alinskyite cronies are doing what they’ve been doing for years — only now they are community organizing at a national level. This involves “empowering” the poor by crushing the middle class (though as we will see, Obama-style empowerment is an illusion). It involves obliterating traditions and symbols with which patriotic Americans identify (see Obama and iconography). It involves fomenting fear, uncertainty, and racial division. It means — because in an Alinsky world, the end justifies the means — that moral constraints like truth and honesty are off the table.
I was recently accused of thinking that those sixties and seventies radicals in power had “magical powers”…nothing is further from the truth. the truth is an uneducated and uninformed public has handed power to radicals for which ethics mean nothing and the only thing that matters is the fundamental transformation of this nation. Some scoff and claim they ony want a social democracy like those in Europe. I suggest that the way this bunch cozies up to men like Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez, and holds men like Che Guevara and Chairman Mao as icons their aspirations for this nation are to turn it into a third world socialist country like Cuba…and this study, if accurate, tells us they will lie about what they intend to their dying breaths!
“The study reveals nothing about the nature of the link between socialism and dishonesty.”
“All the same, when it comes to ethics, a capitalist upbringing appears to trump a socialist one.”
Tina, why can’t you see that the latter statement completely contradicts the former?
It is unethical and dishonest to talk out of both sides of one’s mouth like this, and to use studies to mislead people in order to pursue a political agenda. You’ve said this yourself, but you don’t really believe it, as long as it’s your political agenda being pursued.
This explains the activities of the commenter in #1 and his pals.
Tna,
Poor Chris is “floundering” again. While the study does not explain the nature of the link between socialism and liars, it does show a valid and strong statistical connection. The study need not reveal the nature of that connection to be valid.
Moreover, Chris does not have the credentials, intelligence (as evidenced in #1 and elsewhere in these pages) nor the trustworthiness (as he is a member in good standing of the mendacious socialist group) to make a valid criticism of the study or you, Tina. As usual Chris is grasping at specious rhetorical straws he imagines are actually valid points.
Tina, I enjoyed the Alinsky links and saved them. thank you. I anticipate a good fish slap retort to the idiotic comment #1.
Chris why do you always ask stupid questions?
After years of observation, I find the assertion, “the more people are exposed to socialism the worse they behave,” to be quite plausible. It’s one of the reasons I posted the information again about Alinsky.
If you ever get a chance, see the movie, “The Lives of Others.” You might begin to see why I think this study could have merit. It’s about a couple, a writer and an actress living in East Berlin before the wall came down, who become the focus of the Stasi. They discover their apartment has been wired. They have to be careful about what they say when people call or come by.
I’m not posting things like this to mislead anyone. I post it to open eyes. I post it to create curiosity. I post it to remind all of us how easy it is to throw our freedom away for a little security a bit at a time until it’s too late. I post it because of ignorance or naivete…so many Americans never question. I post it in an attempt to warn about liars and deceivers and to, hopefully, make people more aware.
The discussion, in case you wish to participate is about lying and deception and how socialism, living under socialism or adhering to the socialist creed as articulated by Alinsky will teach you to discard your morals and values for the “cause”…for political reasons or, as with the couple in the movie, FOR SURVIVAL!
Climb out of the box, Chris, fly free. You won’t believe how liberated could/will feel!
It is not unethical to consider things in the news. That is all that’s happening here so take your stupid question, and your dunce cap, and go off in the corner to ponder it yourself.
Tina, thank you for this article. It said more about Saul Alinsky than I wanted to know, but I suppose it’s worth it to be informed. This guy was really dangerous, more so than Goebbels. He re-wrote history, enlisted the endorsements of dead people that would never have endorsed if they were alive and exploited every sort of human weakness.
By this logic, I guess Tina must be a socialist.
Pie I have never claimed to be an expert in anything. I do have a critical eye and I am a curious person who enjoys discussion so I greatly appreciate it when you contribute substantively.
It’s no accident that the founders believed our system of government was dependent upon a moral populace…John Adams:
Jack I learned a few things myself. I love the things you can find on the internet. Imagine trying to counter and expose whats going on today without it!!!!!
I agree, what kind of guy do you have to be to find affiliation with the likes of Goebbels AND Frank Nitti?
Tina, your article couldn’t have been timed more perfectly. The progressive/liberals have just moved from the Devil to zombies to associate their agenda to.
“True Blood” makes an episode bashing Ted Cruz, Ted’s response is legendary:
HBO’s show “True Blood” showing how classless they are. Reminds me of the time Game of Thrones put George Bush’s head on a stick.
Ted Cruz posted this on his Facebook page in response.
“Of all the places I never thought to be mentioned, HBO’s True Blood vampire show would have to be near the top of the list. Sunday night, they aired a misogynist and profanity-ridden episode where Texas Republicans are murdered attending a “Ted Cruz fundraiser.”
Well, I’m sorry to have lost the vampire vote, but am astonished (and amused)that HBO is suggesting that hard-core leftists are blood-sucking fiends…”
http://youngcons.com/true-blood-makes-an-episode-bashing-ted-cruz-teds-response-is-legendary/#lightbox/0/
Love Ted Cruz’s leadership style of leading from the front and willing to take on members of both party who promote the progressive agenda.
His response even made me laugh out loud.
Re #6: Still stuck in the box.
Re#6 Stuck in a box screaming liar liar pants on fire!
Peggy classic Ted Cruz…not a bad description of the far left either. the bunch in control now HAS sucked the life out of this nation and its economy. The best comedy id loaded with truth.
Where have all the Communists gone,
Long time passing,
Where have all the Communists gone,
Long time ago,
Where have all the Communists gone,
Turned into Environmentalists every one,
When will they ever earn?
When will they ever learn?
http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/23/130-environmental-groups-call-for-an-end-to-capitalism/
Pie you are spot on! The poor dears can’t help but show their hand and reveal their real intentions:
Changing the “system,” freedom and republican democracy, has been the goal all along. These are the enemies of the communists who want central control and absolute power.
The Australians have decided to take them on; they’ve scrapped carbon taxes.
Smart move according to the latest revelations about zealots models:
Ya just can’t trust radical commies!