Posted by Tina
The Swiss struck a blow for freedom and private property on Sunday when they voted against changing their privately owned health care system and turning to a government controlled “scheme.” The initiative was defeated by 65% of the voters.
“The Swiss population does not want a single national scheme,” said the Swiss Insurance Association.
“Our health system is among the top performers in the world. Competition between health insurers and freedom of choice for clients play a major role in this,” it added.
Kudos to the Swiss! Let’s hope that our own citizens wake up and realize that America used to be the beacon for freedom, choice, property rights, economic success and incredible opportunity for everyone. We also had a vibrant health care system in which no one was denied care. America can be herself again…IF we return to the principles of freedom that made us prosperous.
In other news, the people of Hong Kong are striking their own blow for freedom with protests in the streets for the right to choose candidates in their elections:
Pro-democracy protesters, some wearing surgical masks and holding up umbrellas to protect against tear gas, expanded their rallies throughout Hong Kong on Monday, defying calls to disperse in a major pushback against Beijing’s decision to limit democratic reforms in the Asian financial hub.
Police officers tried to negotiate with protesters camped out on a normally busy highway near the Hong Kong government headquarters that was the scene of tear gas-fueled clashes that erupted the evening before.
An officer with a bullhorn tried to get them to clear the way for the commuters. A protester, using the group’s own speaker system, responded by saying that they wanted Hong Kong’s Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying to demand a genuine choice for the territory’s voters.
“Do something good for Hong Kong. We want real democracy!” he shouted.
China is reneging on the promise made to allow the citizens to choose their leaders when Hong Kong came under Chinese authority.
Once an iron-fisted commie, always an iron-fisted commie, yes? A leopard doesn’t change its spots.
But hope, and freedom, lies within the hearts of the young who are resisting iron-fisted big government rule; they want freedom!
Prior to the takeover by China there were more new millionaires in Hong Kong than anywhere else on the planet. Every week as the people worked, saved, and invested their wealth grew. The entrepreneurial spirit set free, thrived, creating abundance and opportunity for the people.
America could take a lesson.
Someone didn’t read the whole article…
“The current system, used as a model for US President Barack Obama’s controversial healthcare reform, requires that every resident in the wealthy nation of eight million hold basic health insurance and offers freedom of choice among the 61 companies competing for customers.”
You just indirectly praised Obamacare.
LOL.
Attacks on our Freedom is taking place in our own country too. In the state of Wisconsin Michelle Obama’s and the Governor’s aids tell reporters they can not talk to people in the crowd at an even. Why would they feel the need to control the press? What are they afraid the people might say?
Wisconsin Reporter Was Sent to Cover Michelle Obama’s Speech and What She Says an Aide Told Her Had Her ‘Creeped Out’:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09/30/wisconsin-reporter-was-sent-to-cover-michelle-obamas-speech-and-what-an-aide-allegedly-told-her-had-her-creeped-out/
Concerning health care, I hear Oregon’s ObamaCare problems are unraveling even more with no hope of fixing it.
With the successful track record for decades of churches like the Catholic, Baptist and Seventh Day Adventist owning hospitals like Feather River Hospital in Paradise, St. Jude’s, Alta Bates in Berkeley and others all over the country. It’s time for the government to get out of the health care business and like the Swiss let those who know what they’re doing take care of people’s health needs.
Churches also have a fantastic track record of taking care of orphans, the sick and dying, the hungry and homeless and those needing something to wear.
Our government is failing to take care of mandated things like our post office, military and security. We should have the private service experts provide non-mandated gov’t services and stop forcing our government to be a “Jack of all trades.”
No Chris I praised the free market.
Obama gave us the takeover of 1/6th of the market by government when he could have suggested a few simple changes to correct problems. In Obamacare, Obama, Pelosi and Reid virtually took a dump on the free market. (My apologies for the graphic image; I am speaking to an adolescent who refuses to learn)
Attacks on our freedom? Tea party attacks my freedom all the time.
The ACA is a law not gov healthcare.
It has created jobs and insured more people. It ended the insurance companies cancelling on long time policy holders when they got sick. It ended up being pregnant as a preexisting condition.
As with any law it needs to be strengthened and to fix any problems.
Anybody on medicare and Veterans benefits is on Socialist GOV Insurance. And I have no problem with that except when they vote against others having healthcare.
Tea Party wants to get rid of that. Many Tea Party members vote against their own benefits? Why because they want theirs but to deny the future vets and seniors.
Hypocrisy again.
Capitalism and Socialism balance each other out together.
The catholic Hospital in Grass valley screwed up so many people and had to sell. Religion again?
I do not want Churches to run everything Peggy. That is not freedom!
At least Pope Francis has finally arrested one priest and he is in jail at the Vatican. Child porn!
Religion is not to replace our government!
We will take our gov back not get rid of it for an oligarchy.
You are free to worship not run the country.
Peggy…worth repeating in bold:
It’s time for the government to get out of the health care business and like the Swiss let those who know what they’re doing take care of people’s health needs.
One portion of Healthcare.gov, the part that handles patient billing and records, was not even built last spring:
I couldn’t find an update on the progress
but I have heard about backlogs and problems with doctors and hospitals not being paid.
Wow Peggy you are hot this morning:
Our government is failing to take care of mandated things like our post office, military and security. We should have the private service experts provide non-mandated gov’t services and stop forcing our government to be a “Jack of all trades.”
Good goin’ girl!
Our government is failing to take care of mandated things like our post office –
Peggy Glad to see you care about the USPS
So how about telling Darrell Issa and our congressman La Malfa you want the post office and that 55 Billion is enough for future pensions right now Stop that law and let them run!
They want to privatize it and hate those wages! The USPS is fine! Stop that law and they will be profitable! It’s that easy!
http://www.postalreporternews.net/2011/10/19/flashback-congress-says-2006-postal-reform-bill-will-make-usps-viable-for-21st-century/
I have been watching this since 2006. That law was pushed through added in the middle of the night after members of senate already read the bill. Forget the congressman’s name who did it. May have been a been a bought out DEM. But Issa was the champion for campaign money.
Members in Congress are fighting the Koch Tea Party against closing down USPS every session!
It is in the Koch agenda and displayed even in Davids VP presidential run.
The postmaster general is also a plant and is helping them to end it. They are slowing down mail by closing distribution centers to make people not want to use it.
You need to get the facts. Darrell Issa is a primary in Congress who wants to shut it down and privatize all mail.
Fedex and UPS pay for this attack on Post Office as well. They do not even service everyone. USPS finishes 25% of all other companies delivery.
The USPS is in an amendment to the Constitution. It is the only guaranteed communication to all citizens.
The “Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006″?
Required the USPS to fund 75 years of benefits for future workers in 10 years.
It is up in 2016. Last I checked there was 55 Billion in that fund for workers not even hired yet! GOP and Tea Party Politicians now want to make laws that will bankrupt USPS and steal that money.
USPS uses no taxes. Would not have a deficit without that law.
Now they are compromising with Issa trying to get some fixes in but nothing will pass the house that helps the USPS.
Get the facts from real sources not Tea party news which plain out has been lying. I even remember them trying to say taxes run the post office hoping you guys would want to end it!
http://www.savethepostoffice.com/senate-does-postal-reform-highlights-and-low-points-carper-coburn-bill
I have been fighting on this for years!
Most Americans have no idea the USPS has over 55 Billion in an account by law.
If you guys would just start reading actual bills in congress and realize they are titled the opposite of their intention, then congress members are sent out to push it for their donors we would all get along in this country.
Dewey: “The ACA is a law not gov healthcare.”
It might as well be. The government dictates what will be covered in insurance plans. The law is long but the regulations even longer. Power was given to the HHS Secretary, and unelected public official, and her board, also unelected, to change the law as they sees fit. They get away with it only because there’s a provision for congress to intercede…yeah, like the bureaucracy would do that in the time required.
It’s a fascist plan.
You claim to hate fascism and yet support fascist laws? That’s crazy, Dewey.
Tina: “No Chris I praised the free market.”
You praised the current Swiss health insurance system, which again, is the basis for Obamacare. All Swiss citizens are required to purchase health insurance on the private market. I believe this is a free market solution, but you call it
“the takeover of 1/6th of the market by government”
Which, as you know, was the Lie of the Year three years ago.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/dec/16/lie-year-government-takeover-health-care/
Do better.
Chris the Swiss are required to have insurance that isn’t the same as a requirement to choose between government dictated/controlled plans.
Politifact can give a thumbs down all they want, economists have placed healthcare at 1/6th of the economy and growing:
Obamacare has control in one way or another through taxes, mandates and regulation!
Mises:
An The American Thinker article talks about control through the tax structure and costs to individuals:
Coverage directs care. Taxing and regulating authority controls the broader economy. The only choice Americans have is between plans the government mandates. Doctors must justify treatments to be paid by insurance. All of us are financially affected by all of this interference. If that isn’t control over our healthcare I don’t know what is.
“Do better.”
Get bent!
Tina: “Chris the Swiss are required to have insurance that isn’t the same as a requirement to choose between government dictated/controlled plans.”
You don’t even bother to do a basic level of research before saying such ridiculous things. The Swiss health insurance plans are just as, if not more, regulated by the government as they are under Obamacare:
“Swiss are required to purchase basic health insurance, which covers a range of treatments detailed in the Swiss Federal Law on Health Insurance…It is therefore the same throughout the country and avoids double standards in healthcare. Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Switzerland
Once again: you praised the current Swiss health insurance as a “free market” system, not understanding that it is actually more highly regulated than our system under the ACA.
Be an honest person and admit it.
“Politifact can give a thumbs down all they want, economists have placed healthcare at 1/6th of the economy and growing”
Politifact never disputed that healthcare is 1/6th of the economy. They disputed that the ACA is a “government takeover” of healthcare. Read.
The Mises article literally lists the same requirements that are already part of the Swiss healthcare system.
Why can’t you just admit you were wrong? Not about Obamacare in general, of course–you wouldn’t do that if it saved your own life–but about your comparison with the Swiss health insurance system?
Chris: “You don’t even bother to do a basic level of research before saying such ridiculous things. The Swiss health insurance plans are just as, if not more, regulated by the government as they are under Obamacare”
Or your research cherry picked to make it seem so.
This article suggest there are basic differences that are quite significant:
It’s a good article with suggestions for fixing the mess Obama/Reid/Pelosi have made.
And in Forbes, another good article, “Obamacare Adapts The Worst Of Swisscare, Rejects The Best”
Why can’t you stop pretending to be everyone’s superior? Why do you insist on looking down your nose, playing hall monitor and teacher?
This article was based on an article about the result of a vote taken in which the Swiss rejected single payer and stronger government control. The quotes I posted reflect the sentiment of the people and include: “Our health system is among the top performers in the world. Competition between health insurers and freedom of choice for clients play a major role in this,”
Freedom of choice for clients to me suggests that whatever was proposed took that away. I may have misunderstood some aspects but you are not all right either, even with your Wikipedia research.
Take that crap attitude of yours and shove it, Chris. My assertion in comments stands: “Obama gave us the takeover of 1/6th of the market by government when he could have suggested a few simple changes to correct problems.
And in the article: “Kudos to the Swiss! Let’s hope that our own citizens wake up and realize that America used to be the beacon for freedom, choice, property rights, economic success and incredible opportunity for everyone. We also had a vibrant health care system in which no one was denied care. America can be herself again…IF we return to the principles of freedom that made us prosperous.”
I stand by that also! How about you learn to read. Like I said, “…I praised the free market.”
Tina: “Switzerland offers its citizens premium support subsidies, on a sliding scale, for the purpose of buying private health insurance; there are no “public option” government insurers.”
You just described Obamacare.
“Low-income individuals are fully subsidized; middle-income individuals are modestly subsidized; and upper-income individuals are unsubsidized.”
You just described Obamacare again.
“Competition between health insurers and freedom of choice for clients play a major role in this”
And again.
“Obama gave us the takeover of 1/6th of the market by government”
As I pointed out, this was a lie the first time you said it; I am not sure why you feel that saying it again will magically make it true.
“We also had a vibrant health care system in which no one was denied care.”
I didn’t call out this lie the first time, but come on–you know it’s a lie, and it’s the most obvious, transparent lie you’ve told in a conversation in which you’ve told several obvious and transparent lies. You know that people without insurance were (and still are) denied care all the time. Unless you believe that people get chemo in emergency rooms?
Chris I stand by everything I wrote. You disagree. I couldn’t care less.
You conveniently failed to list the ways that the Swiss system is different…and more free. That’s one of the ways you are deceptive in your responses. You figure if you ignore the parts you cannot refute they go away…what an a$$. (I imagine you also assume no one notices. They do; they just don’t play hall monitor like you do)
In a article at PJ Media Democrat Senator Chris Murphy was quoted as saying healthcare was 1/6th of our economy:
America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) is “the national trade association representing the health insurance industry.” An article on their site, here, favored Obamacare and also refers to 1/6th of the economy (scroll down to “Rising Health Care Costs”:
I have no idea what your problem is with this figure it is widely accepted. It appears you just enjoy attempting to discredit me. Certainly your snotty attitude would suggest as much. We’re done.
Sound familiar?
“There are also those who delusively if not enthusiastically surrender their liberty for the mastermind’s false promises of human and societal perfectibility. He hooks them with financial bribes in the form of ‘entitlements.’ And he makes incredible claims about indefectible health, safety, educational, and environmental policies, the success of which is to be measured not in the here and now but in the distant future.
For these reasons and more, some become fanatics for the cause. They take to the streets and, ironically, demand their own demise as they protest against their own self-determination and for ever more autocracy and authoritarianism. When they vote, they vote to enchain not only their fellow citizens but, unwittingly, themselves. Paradoxically, as the utopia metastasizes and the society ossifies, elections become less relevant. More and more decisions are made by the masterminds and their experts, who substitute their self-serving and dogmatic judgments — which are proclaimed righteous and compassionate — for the the individual’s self-interests and best interests.”
― Mark R. Levin, Ameritopia: The Unmaking of America
Love this.
“Equality, as understood by the American Founders, is the natural right of every individual to live freely under self-government, to acquire and retain the property he creates through his own labor, and to be treated impartially before a just law. Moreover, equality should not be confused with perfection, for man is also imperfect, making his application of equality, even in the most just society, imperfect. Otherwise, inequality is the natural state of man in the sense that each individual is born unique in all his human characteristics. Therefore, equality and inequality, properly comprehended, are both engines of liberty.”
― Mark R. Levin, Ameritopia: The Unmaking of America
http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/18225308-ameritopia-the-unmaking-of-america