Posted by Jack
WASHINGTON — In an unexpected move, President Barack Obama on Monday will ban the federal government from providing certain military equipment to police departments.
Effective immediately, the government will no longer provide local law enforcement with armored vehicles, grenade launchers and bayonets. Other items like explosives and riot equipment will be transferred to police only if they provide additional certification and assurances that the gear will be used responsibly.
The changes stem from recommendations made to the president in a new report produced by a White House working group. Obama created the task force earlier this year via executive order.
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From Jack….. I’ve always had a problem with cops wearing combat uniforms while policing our Halloween revelers in downtown Chico. That seems a bit much, but it only happens once a year, so I suppose its not that bad in the grand scheme of things.
Now that being said, past riots in Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, Los Angeles, Berkeley, etc., often require a serious police response. That response could mean officers in battle dress to armored vehicles with fire hoses. Let me be clear…I’m not talking about cops using army surplus bayonets. I’ve never heard of a department requesting bayonets. (Obama scare tactic?) I’m just talking about helpful surplus gear that are tools used by police in extreme situations.
However, for the President of the United States to insert himself in local management, to get between a Chief of Police and the situations cops face and basically tell them how to do their business…well, that’s foolishly wrong.
That surplus military equipment program for police was an asset, especially for departments on a small budget. They made good use of that expensive equipment that otherwise would have been scrapped. My department once received 30 perfectly good military gas masks that we otherwise could not afford.
Bottom line: That surplus military equipment ought to be used if its needed, after all, we paid for it. Obama has gone to far again and overreacted.
He’s the worst President ever and I can’t wait to see him gone.
Ditto Jack.
Off Topic:
Surprise, surprise! Hillary lied about her email —
Newly Released Documents Indicate Key Hillary Clinton Claim on Emails Was Not True
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05/18/newly-released-documents-indicate-key-hillary-clinton-claim-on-emails-was-not-true/
“I’ve never heard of a department requesting bayonets. (Obama scare tactic?)”
Not an Obama scare tactic. The Pentagon has distributed almost 12,000 bayonets to law enforcement since 2006:
http://www.npr.org/2014/09/02/342494225/mraps-and-bayonets-what-we-know-about-the-pentagons-1033-program
“However, for the President of the United States to insert himself in local management, to get between a Chief of Police and the situations cops face and basically tell them how to do their business…well, that’s foolishly wrong.”
He isn’t getting “between a Chief of Police and the situations cop face.” You literally just said those weapons come from the federal government. Did you forget that you said that, or are you seriously arguing that the president has no business butting into the federal government? (Shades of “get the government out of my Medicare.”)
Shorter Jack: I was opposed to the militarization of the police force until Obama did something about it, so now I have to pretend to be against it.
#2 Chris have you ever known cops to go around bayonetting people? Police agencies do not authorize the use of bayonets, swords or even spears. lol
“He isn’t getting “between a Chief of Police and the situations cop face.” You literally just said those weapons come from the federal government. Did you forget that you said that, or are you seriously arguing that the president has no business butting into the federal government? (Shades of “get the government out of my Medicare.”)
C’mon Chris you can do better than that.
This may come as a surprise to you but law enforcement agencies have depended on surplus equipment from the military for over 100 years.
A lot of departments just don’t have the budget for buying new rifles/pistols/helmets/vests/tear gas launchers, etc., and this out dated military surplus is a life saver for them…literally and takes on whole new life serving of the public good.
As the bad guys get more sophisticated, armored tactical vehicles have been found to be helpful. They’re typically used to block or stop bullets and to protect officers inside. An obsolete military troop carrier with armor cost the taxpayers $300,000 or more. Unless they were [given] to police departments they would be made into scrap metal. That’s a waste of our tax dollars. Most departments can’t afford to buy a $300k armored vehicle, so perhaps you can see how that surplus vehicle is a real asset?
Again, we’ve had this cooperative arrangement with the government for over a century and now President Obama has blocked it. He has inserted himself into a long standing program and by doing so he has interfered with local government. That has taken away some of the local Chief’s or Sheriff’s discretion for obtaining equipment they may deem as prudent and necessary for the protection of their citizens. The reason he gave for doing this amounted to basically, I know what’s best for you, this is politically correct and I don’t trust you anyway, so you are cut off. That’s terrible and it will cost lives, not save them.
Now do you get it?
“#2 Chris have you ever known cops to go around bayonetting people?”
I just showed you proof that the Pentagon has distributed thousands of bayonets to local law enforcement, so I don’t understand how this question is relevant.
” Police agencies do not authorize the use of bayonets, swords or even spears. lol”
Good, then you agree that Obama was right to stop the federal government from distributing bayonets to local law enforcement. Either cops are illegally using these weapons or they’re buying weapons they have no authority to use; either way that should be stopped, right? So your question of whether banning police departments from buying bayonets from the fed gov was an “Obama scare tactic” was answered with a very clear “no.”
“A lot of departments just don’t have the budget for buying new rifles/pistols/helmets/vests/tear gas launchers, etc., and this out dated military surplus is a life saver for them…literally and takes on whole new life serving of the public good.”
So you’re saying you want the federal government to bail them out? Interesting.
“As the bad guys get more sophisticated, armored tactical vehicles have been found to be helpful. They’re typically used to block or stop bullets and to protect officers inside. An obsolete military troop carrier with armor cost the taxpayers $300,000 or more. Unless they were [given] to police departments they would be made into scrap metal. That’s a waste of our tax dollars. Most departments can’t afford to buy a $300k armored vehicle, so perhaps you can see how that surplus vehicle is a real asset?”
Yes, but they can still buy armored cars from the fed as long as they run on wheels and not tracks. They do not have to make more of an effort at justifying these purchases, but as a fiscal conservative, I’m not sure how you could argue that’s a bad thing.
“Again, we’ve had this cooperative arrangement with the government for over a century and now President Obama has blocked it. He has inserted himself into a long standing program and by doing so he has interfered with local government.”
You can’t just keep glossing over the fact that local governments get these things from the federal government as if that doesn’t matter.
“The reason he gave for doing this amounted to basically, I know what’s best for you, this is politically correct and I don’t trust you anyway, so you are cut off.”
No. This decision was the result of serious inquiry by a task force of experts set up specifically to evaluate how the militarization of police affects the relationship between the police and the public, as well as safety. Please read their recommendations.
“A lot of departments just don’t have the budget for buying new rifles/pistols/helmets/vests/tear gas launchers, etc., and this out dated military surplus is a life saver for them…literally and takes on whole new life serving of the public good.”
So you’re saying you want the federal government to bail them out? Interesting.
No I am not saying that all. I am saying, rather than to destroy the surplus equipment, its better to use. In this case law enforcement needs it. There is no bailout, it’s just being responsible with things the taxpayer has already paid for.
Sorry, the above should read:
They do have to make more of an effort at justifying these purchases, but as a fiscal conservative, I’m not sure how you could argue that’s a bad thing.
Police are to serve and protect.
We have the national guard for military type protection.
I welcome the new ban. Policing has become a business. They do spreadsheets and tell officers to bring in x dollars on tickets ect.
Also it says on some gear a LOCAL GOVERNING BODY must approve it. That gives the citizens the ability to elect sane people who oversee remaining military gear.
They need to be taxpayer funded and have taxpayer oversight. They are getting greedy and trying to become a FBI like authoritarian entity.
They take money and property on speculation. The citizen has to prove they did nothing wrong, the police just have to accuse.
http://www.republicmagazine.com/videos/officer-larry-bates-liar-thief-and-the-face-of-asset-forfeiture-in-tennessee.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/18/mississippi-citys-41-million-police-station-funded-by-civil-forfeiture/
http://www.scrippsmedia.com/newschannel5/news/newschannel-5-investigates/policing-for-profit/Civil-Forfeiture-Reforms-Stall—-For-Now-298967781.html
http://www.kcrg.com/subject/news/forfeiture-money-funds-many-things-for-johnson-county-agencies-20150514
You hate Obama, Ok no big deal.
Obama is not my favorite guy. When he does something right I say so. This was a good move. Sitting in Chico California is a far cry from seeing the police abuse in other parts of the country.
When police show up in unnecessary gear for the situation it incites violence and anger. We do not want to be a police state.
Police need oversight. Any entity left to their own devises faces becoming corrupt. Take the Police in Mexico. They kill for no reason on a much larger scale.
Everybody wants police to have proper gear. Not excess. Also maybe if we stopped allowing our taxes to be diverted to corrupt politicians and their cronies and properly funded our police and schools we would not have any problems.
Worst President? G.W. Bush is a proven criminal and the worst. Tax cuts and 2 wars on a credit card. Reagan is my second. 30 years of Reaganomics has destroyed the middle class.
I like social security, public schools, and for my taxes to pay for infrastructure. Guess that makes me an enemy.
Privatize? Well News Flash! 1/7th of the USA’s assets are foreign owned! privatizing away the country is not my ideal of National Security.
Question who runs the port if Long Beach CA?
And yes why would any police force take those Bayonets just because they were available? ya ever hear of an army being formed inside of our PD?
They are going after social security and did another cut in the Senate TPA deal. That should make you happy.
Off topic.
This guy is great!
BOOM: Black Man DESTROYS Michelle Obama’s Race Baiting with an EPIC History Lesson (VIDEO)
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/black-man-destroys-michelle-obamas-race-baiting/#ixzz3akZILBr1
While I am supportive of our local and state police having the necessary equipment to keep us and themselves safe I have concerns with the federal gov’t’s involvement with the funding and providing the equipment as a means to taking over control.
Obama said, “We cannot continue to rely only our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”
The DOJ is now involved in Ferguson, Baltimore, Stockton, Albuquerque, Seattle, Portland, Ore., New Orleans, Philadelphia, Spokane, Calexico and Cleveland. I’m sure there are more, but this is what I found after a quick search.
I don’t like local police dressed like soldiers in camo uniforms. They should all be in local police uniforms. I also see no reason for tanks or grenade launchers being needed by local police.
From 2013.
Are Police in America Now a Military, Occupying Force?:
“Consider that in 1980, there were roughly 3,000 SWAT team-style raids in the US. By 2001, that number had grown to 45,000 and has since swelled to more than 80,000 SWAT team raids per year. On an average day in America, over 100 Americans have their homes raided by SWAT teams. In fact, there are few communities without a SWAT team on their police force today. In 1984, 25.6 percent of towns with populations between 25,000 and 50,000 people had a SWAT team. That number rose to 80 percent by 2005.”
http://thetimesweekly.com/news/2013/aug/06/are-police-america-now-military-occupying-force/?page=2
Remember this?
Toddler burned, critically hurt by flash grenade during drug raid at Georgia home:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/05/30/toddler-burned-critically-hurt-by-flash-grenade-during-drug-raid-at-georgia/
We all feel less safe today than we did over a decade ago, but at what cost are we now willing to pay for our safety? Personally I do not want a civilian national police forced controlled out of DC. It’s against our Constitution for a good reason.
I do want our National Guard protecting our borders, period. And state and local police forces in total control of their communities without any federal involvement.
Peggy, while I agree with most of what you said, I think the full context of Obama’s quote shows that he wasn’t talking about a national police force, and when he mentioned “national security goals” he was talking about things like fighting climate change and poverty.
From FactCheck:
“Obama was not talking about a “security force” with guns or police powers. He was talking specifically about expanding AmeriCorps and the Peace Corps and the USA Freedom Corps, which is the volunteer initiative launched by the Bush administration after the attacks of 9/11, and about increasing the number of trained Foreign Service officers who populate U.S. embassies overseas.
Here is the relevant portion of what Obama actually said, with the sentences quoted selectively by Broun and others in bold.
Obama, July 2, Colorado Springs, CO: [As] president I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots [from 75,000] and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals, like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their effort connected to a common purpose.
People of all ages, stations and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem – they are the answer. So we are going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people. We’ll call on Americans to join an energy corps, to conduct renewable energy and environmental clean-up projects in their neighborhoods all across the country.
We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, and to be there for our military families. And we’re going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy. We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set.
We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. We need to use technology to connect people to service. We’ll expand USA Freedom Corps to create online networks where American can browse opportunities to volunteer. You’ll be able to search by category, time commitment and skill sets. You’ll be able to rate service opportunities, build service networks, and create your own service pages to track your hours and activities.
This will empower more Americans to craft their own service agenda and make their own change from the bottom up.”
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/11/obamas-national-security-force/
This federal ban is not over reach at all. I look at the present inside. it gives approval of some military gear back to the local government. Police departments have to go to their city council or other governing body to get gear approved. For me that is a win!
Citizens need to become more involved in local government. Both sides of the isle create a balance. Every city has different needs and should be able to oversee their local police.
It also forces people to show up for local elections and vet candidates. Today’s business of politics has candidates promising the world to their base only to serve their donors once office is obtained.
Off Topic Urgent
TPA made it through the senate today.
It will go up for vote as soon as Boehner can get the votes before the public has a chance to react.
Do not give Obama this Power! or any other President ever again!
URGENT! Please call the House Reps in DC on the TPA.
Congressional Switchboard @ (202) 224-3121
Even La Malfa has spoke out against the trade deal.
Remember the TPA is not the trade bill. It transfers full negotiating power to the President and removes the duty and power of congress.
That is unconstitutional.
If passed when the trade bill reaches the floor in congress each member will have a total of 83 seconds to debate if divided evenly.
That is not what our founding fathers intended.
Also this secret trade deal needs to be exposed to all members of congress freely. No secret room where you can not take an assistant, phone, or notes.
Why are they hiding the trade deal?
Because if we saw it we would unanimously reject it as a country.
TPP CAN NEVER BE UNDONE IF PASSED
Look at the recent WTO ruling that over rides the USA law that the country of origin has to be on our meat products.
That is a global court telling our country what to do. Does not matter if you like the law or not matters that a court outside our borders is dictating law to the whole country.
#Sovereignty
http://obamatrade.com/
conservative site
I have been on this mission for months as you know. I have read the leaks. Don’t you think you should also know what is in it?
Why give Obama total power here?
Sorry to take up so much space. This is really Urgent. They will slip this in before break if they can.
I gave you the Conservative argument against it wanted to give you the liberal argument against it.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4537663/sen-bernie-sanders-tpa
I’ve Read Obama’s Secret Trade Deal. Elizabeth Warren Is Right to Be Concerned.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/tpp-elizabeth-warren-labor-118068.html#ixzz3anpI36kK
Please take time to consider joining the “Blow Up the Phones campaign” A Bipartisan effort to stop the railroading of A SECRET TRADE DEAL
From elsewhere on the web—
https://leshunky1.wordpress.com/2015/05/20/done-thinking-still-pissed/
Link by RHT: “When I was born in 1958, there were about 3.5 Billion people on our Planet, and we were in the middle of the “Pax Americana.” For all intents and purposes, what the United States said, half the World agreed and followed along. The rest were under the Control of the Soviet and Chinese Communist Empires, and the Ordinary People who were Trapped in those Systems just had to do what the Man with the AK-47 said.
Today, there are over 7 Billion people on the Planet. And it looks like 3/4 of them are stuck doing what the Man with the AK-47 says. Don’t believe me? Well, the UN said in a News story a couple of weeks ago that there are over 38 Million “Internally Displaced” people out there. That means that Living Conditions are So Bad that people are moving from one side of their Country to another and living like Refugees. Think of all those people who fled New Orleans after Katrina and moved to Houston. They’re still in the U.S., but they weren’t living back home in the Big Easy.
Now, add in the “Externally Displaced” of 50 Million who are OUTSIDE their Home Country living as Refugees, and we’re talking about nearly 90 million people who aren’t living at home.
The last time those numbers were so big, it was right after WORLD WAR TWO.”
That was a good article, so I put in a snippet from it. I might add that we’re seeing more people than not going to the side Islamic radicalism because of all their promises for a better life. I think this is ok in the long run. One, it will never work and that will eventually end their rule, but not before a lot of damage is done. Two, during their rule it significantly reduces the population – radicals get themselves killed. Three, the survivors get to learn a great lesson about not falling for the radical’s BS.
#14 RHT
That was a great link. Can’t say I disagree with anything he wrote.
This part hit a major concern for me for the future and how they will read about the present.
“Now, as some of you know, I struggled for years to get my Bachelor’s Degree in History. I won’t go into the boring details for that Journey, just let it suffice to say that I read those Stories not as “Current Events”, but as “Primary Source Documentation.” Those of you in the History Field know that PSD is THE Main Source for trying to get the Facts (if one isn’t a Phony trying to Push an Agenda!) of what was Happening at a certain Time and Place. So my “Viewpoint” is one who has it in their Head that what I’m reading TODAY is what Future Historians would be looking BACK at to try and understand how they got to the Point of their own Time.
Take for example World War One. Looking back at it from a Hundred years ago, it was pretty much obvious to most Main Line Historians that SOMETHING was going to Happen that would bring about the Collapse of the Old Political and Social Order that was in place at the time. But for most of the People who were about to LIVE through World War One, most of them didn’t realize that “Life as they knew it” was about to be Completely Turned Upside Down.”
Schools today, I’m told, are not teaching cursive writing any more. Therefore, they will not be able to read it. They won’t be able to read original documents like our Constitution or any letters, etc. written by our founders or great scholars. They’ll have to rely on someone else’s interpretation. Now, that scares me.
Remember when someone in the Obama WH changed the information about our history on the official WH website?
Obama W.H. change official biography pages of past presidents?:
http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/17/is-it-appropriate-for-president-obama-to-change-the-official-biography-pages-of-past-presidents-on-the-white-house-website/
If history can be rewritten at the whim of individuals with the intent to hide the truth or promote a political agenda our nation will be one big lie. It will have the same affect as burning all of the books. If there are no books any more because everything is now downloaded electronically, what happens if the power goes out forever?
Ever see the movie, “Book of Eli?” Great movie. Great message. Don’t want to give it away, but see it. That could be our future.
Jack, in my opinion so many young people today are turning to Islam’s promise of a better life because they haven’t been raised in faith based homes or taken to church. Church attendance is at an all time low and kids are looking for something to believe in. If it’s not the God of love they will turn to the god of hate.
I read that Texas blog.
Very concerning.
When we have a small local group trying to form a police force to fight the federal gov that is not right. We need to take our country back not create some civil war.
The citizens from the left and the right have to unite and stand strong. The politicians are selling off our national assets to multinational corporations who own congress and are judicial system.
Also it saddens me people believe the media. I saw Baltimore, and watched Ferguson by livestream. Most people have not a clue on actual facts about what really happened.
There is a reason. More importantly those events are a symptom of a bigger problem.
We have been lied to in this country most of our lives. I can only hope people turn off heir tv’s and wake up
There is no Democracy in the USA. We are being sold off piece by piece. Global Fascism and their world gov is in place. Think I am kidding?
Then how does the WTO tell the USA to change a law on a lawsuit from Canada and Mexico? A corporation thinks labeling the country of origin on our meat looses them money? We the people have no right to know where our meat comes from?
That is a world corporate gov, next up their policing forces.
” The Pentagon has distributed almost 12,000 bayonets to law enforcement since 2006″ ????
I could not see specifically where any State “LEO” agency received or even requested a Bayonet. I would put a lot more credence on Jacks comments in this area as he does have the background and experience of knowing. However the next time I see a bayonet in the use of a state Leo, I could only imagine Hell just froze over.
I did notice some Federal agencies mixed up in the report that is being used as a general broad-brush statement of fact.
Agencies and depts. like, FBI, DOJ, Parks, school districts and Recreation depts., Possibly even the CMP (who sells that type of item to military surplus collectors and other nefarious types). The national guards were not mentioned, but their in there somewhere I’ll bet.
Repurposing products that were outdated and scheduled foe destruction (read, wasted tax dollars)that can save the need of additional tax dollars makes more sense than destroying serviceable equipment.
At least I did not read about any Abrams tanks or Nuclear Subs being sold, Whew!
http://www.npr.org/2014/09/02/342494225/mraps-and-bayonets-what-we-know-about-the-pentagons-1033-program
http://www.kcra.com/news/bayonets-grenade-launchers-given-to-local-law-enforcement/27908876
Stuff goes missing? Where is it in the militia now? ya know the secret Anti Gov Tea Party one?
Now on the bigger question what about that wasteful spending? In fact the gOP demanded more in the budget for the pentagon than they requested? Why is that? Do their donors want specific contracted amounts why?
Where is the wasteful spending talks? We still have not paid for that hear yet. Us the taxpayers who got the bill.
They want to get rid of social security and increase defense spending. Why is that such a great platform?
Look at all the M16’s in California Police departments where we have no oversight on who is hired.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LDU9IG3my6-h4gO2i2pyINP565ajo7-3LbCWIotFIbE/pubhtml
Presidential Legacies:
http://www.youngcons.com/this-presidential-legacies-cartoon-really-puts-obamas-failures-in-perspective/
This man should be in our Oval Office instead of the idiot who is there now.
Black Leader Dares To Ask, If All Whites Left The Country, How Would It Really Affect The Black Community?:
“Robert Woodson, a nationally recognized community development leader, posed an amazing question on CSPAN this Tuesday.
“If all whites tomorrow were to move to Canada and Europe, tell me how it would affect the black on black crime rate, how would it it affect the out-of-wedlock births, how would it affect the spread of AIDS?” he asked.
He added, “What I’m saying to Black America [is that] we must stop victimization. We must stop complaining about what white folks have done to us in the past. We must go into ourselves, as Dr. King said, and find indelible ink — our own emancipation proclamation.”
His point — and it was an amazing one — was that much more can be accomplished when people “are motivated by solutions” and “entrepreneurial energy” versus when people are “complaining about what others have done.”
Continued w/ video..
http://reagancoalition.com/articles/2015/black-leader-dares-to-ask-if-all-whites-left-the-country-how-would-it-really-affect-the-black-community.html?utm_source=fnot2&utm_medium=facebook