Labor Day Weekend Blues

Cartoon_Labor_Day_Cookout_Obama_RickMcKee-1mdPosted by Tina

“Had me a job til the market fell out. Tried hard to borrow but there was no help; now I’ve got nowhere to go. I need a job for these two hands. I’m a workin’ man with nowhere to go.” – “Workin’ Man (Nowhere To Go),” Nitty Gritty Dirt Band

The labor participation rate in America is stuck at a “38-Year Low for 3rd Straight Month.”

Not good news as we head toward Labor Day:

In August, according to BLS, the nation’s civilian noninstitutional population, consisting of all people 16 or older who were not in the military or an institution, reached 251,096,000. Of those, 157,065,000 participated in the labor force by either holding a job or actively seeking one.

The 157,065,000 who participated in the labor force equaled only 62.6 percent of the 251,096,000 civilian noninstitutional population — the same as it was in July and June. Not since October 1977, when the participation rate dropped to 62.4, has the percentage been this low.

You might take a minute to recall that Jimmy Carter was president and Democrat policies were in force in 1977. Democrats held the majority in Congress with 61 Senators and 292 Representatives in the House. In fact Democrats had been making policy since 1954 at that time.

Americans need a strong economy and growth to see opportunities for work to return. Policies that oppress investment, innovation, and wealth building in the private sector, as radical left policies do, will never end in increased opportunity and jobs. Conservative polices, implemented by both Republican and Democrat presidents have accomplished that happy reality several times since the era of Carter. Conservatives are the only folks calling for such policies. You can do something about this next year…vote for the most conservative guy or gal in the bunch!

The tax on capital gains directly affects investment decisions, the mobility and flow of risk capital… the ease or difficulty experienced by new ventures in obtaining capital, and thereby the strength and potential for growth in the economy. – President John F. Kennedy, Democrat

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29 Responses to Labor Day Weekend Blues

  1. JR Herbaugh says:

    Innovations in production and business practices are the very reason that half the country doesn’t *need* a job.

    • Post Scripts says:

      I always enjoy hearing from new commenters. “Innovations in production and business practices are the very reason that half the country doesn’t *need* a job. J.R. says in response to Tina’s, “Policies that oppress investment, innovation, and wealth building in the private sector, as radical left policies do, will never end in increased opportunity and jobs.”

      How true, JR and Tina.

      Trial and error has taught us that business works best when government gets out of the way… as much as possible.

      Obama’s theory is just the opposite. He wants government involved too much. This has resulted in losing market share to the competition overseas (China). He hits us with high taxes because we waste too much money and lose too much to corruption. And worse, he need to extort more taxes to buy votes for democrats with these gimme’s. The gimmes often go to people who haven’t earned it and are perfectly capable of working for a living. If government didn’t keep them on an allowance they would find a way to go to work.

  2. J. Soden says:

    We continue to hear about the “unemployment rate” where numbers were tweaked to make Obumble look good before the last election.
    Until such time as the numbers are adjusted to include the number of people on unemployment combined with the numbers of those who’ve quit looking for work – and even perhaps tbose on welfare – versus the much-ballyhooed number of jobs created, any labor dept statistics won’t be believable.
    And remember – there are 3 kinds of untruth. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Especially from Obumble.

    • Chris says:

      “We continue to hear about the “unemployment rate” where numbers were tweaked to make Obumble look good before the last election.”

      The last election was three years ago. Unemployment has continued to fall during all three of those years. What are you talking about?

      “Until such time as the numbers are adjusted to include the number of people on unemployment combined with the numbers of those who’ve quit looking for work – and even perhaps tbose on welfare – versus the much-ballyhooed number of jobs created, any labor dept statistics won’t be believable.”

      How do you propose we measure such a thing? And did you ask for such statistics during the Bush administration, which saw a net decrease in the number of jobs and employment, or did you recently decide such a number was important?

      • Tina says:

        Chris: ” Unemployment has continued to fall during all three of those years ”

        Most people don’t watch business channels, or pay much attention to employment statistics. I can tell you that in every month since before the last election the unemployment number has been adjusted up, because I do watch a business channel.

        Now it may be that this adjustment practice has always gone on due to states not getting their employment reports in on time (CA is apparently notoriously bad). But the thing that’s important is that the unemployment number has averaged around 4 -5% through our past presidents terms in office… during Obama’s term the unemployment percentage has never been lower than the current rate of 5.1% and our economy has bumped along the bottom with growth rates at 2%.

        Read more here

        Department of Labor – Bureau of Labor Statistics:

        01: 4.2 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.3 4.5 4.6 4.9 5.0 5.3 5.5 5.7

        02: 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.9 6.0

        03: 5.8 5.9 5.9 6.0 6.1 6.3 6.2 6.1 6.1 6.0 5.8 5.7

        04: 5.7 5.6 5.8 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.5 5.4 5.4 5.5 5.4 5.4

        05: 5.3 5.4 5.2 5.2 5.1 5.0 5.0 4.9 5.0 5.0 5.0 4.9

        06: 4.7 4.8 4.7 4.7 4.6 4.6 4.7 4.7 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.4

        07: 4.6 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.4 4.6 4.7 4.6 4.7 4.7 4.7 5.0

        08: 5.0 4.9 5.1 5.0 5.4 5.6 5.8 6.1 6.1 6.5 6.8 7.3

        09: 7.8 8.3 8.7 9.0 9.4 9.5 9.5 9.6 9.8 10.0 9.9 9.9

        10: 9.8 9.8 9.9 9.9 9.6 9.4 9.4 9.5 9.5 9.4 9.8 9.3

        11: 9.2 9.0 9.0 9.1 9.0 9.1 9.0 9.0 9.0 8.8 8.6 8.5

        12: 8.3 8.3 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.0 7.8 7.8 7.7 7.9

        13: 8.0 7.7 7.5 7.6 7.5 7.5 7.3 7.2 7.2 7.2 7.0 6.7

        14: 6.6 6.7 6.6 6.2 6.3 6.1 6.2 6.1 5.9 5.7 5.8 5.6

        15: 5.7 5.5 5.5 5.4 5.5 5.3 5.3 5.1

        Bush policy began after November 2001 when the new budget began. Obama’s after November 2009.

        Under Bush, who inherited the Clinton recession, with 911 on it’s heels, never had an unemployment rate over 6.1%. Recall that Democrats took the House (budget policy) in 2006.

        Most recessions last between 10 and 18 months, depending on who’s counting. 🙂

        The recession Obama inherited lasted until June 2009 and unemployment began to dramatically increase. It remained very high through January 2013 and decreased at a very slow pace thereafter.

        Policy is key.

        Government spending and debt to GDP are part of the picture. In 2008 debt to GDP was 67%. It increased steadily after that hitting 102% in 2014.

        Hidden taxes in Obamacare hit job producers and productive citizens hard:

        “It follows that the effect of the Affordable Care Act on employment and work hours would be roughly 12 times as great as the effect of the Massachusetts law,” writes Mulligan. “The bottom line was that it was wrong to expect the two laws to have had the same effects.”

        Mulligan added: “Call me gloomy, but I’m one economist who thinks that adding, on average, five percentage points to marginal tax rates will noticeably depress the labor market, while adding a few tenths of a point in Massachusetts did not.”

        Obama’s tax policy, directed by class envy (wealthy-fairness) and has been devastating for the lower and middle classes:

        The truth is that envy creates poverty and decreased prosperity.

        Here are five reasons …

        Higher tax rates discourage wealth production, by discouraging productive behavior. Higher taxes on saving, investing and income, cause people to avoid these things and leads to lower living standards for everyone and lower revenue collected by the government – forcing cuts in government programs. Raising taxes does not help the poor, but rather increases poverty.
        Higher tax rates generate less government revenue, as shown by the Laffer Curve and proven several times in history as illustrated in the video below.
        Progressively higher tax rates on the rich, hurt the poor the most. As the poor suffer from the increase in unemployment and drop in non-profit contributions by the rich, and these conditions cause a drop in higher education of the poor and middle-class, which prolongs there income level perhaps by an entire generation or more.
        Higher corporate and income taxes drives jobs overseas, as the global economy forces nations to compete for labor and capital. The U.S. is already among the highest nations for corporate tax rates and the evident of job losses can be found in every industry. Obama’s tax plan is would increase the loss of jobs, increasing the unemployment and poverty.
        Progressive tax rates, lead to higher tax rates on everyone. Because before the money is ever collect, local and federal governments begin expanding programs and spending. And when the money doesn’t come in as projected because of the previous four points that I made, the politicians turn to higher sales tax and property tax to make up the difference.

        Obama’s class workfare and progressive tax rates are the source of the problem. It is the already high tax rates that continue to punish the poor and increase the poverty in America.

        Watch CATO video.

        Under Obama, unemployment/unemployed numbers remain high; overall production and opportunity remain low (small business – main street). His polices, indeed the Keynesian tax policy platform of the Democrat Party, just does not work for average Americans who depend on small business.

        Chris the unemployment may have dropped before the last election slightly but the numbers are nothing to brag about and there is evidence that the numbers were being manipulated:

        Just one month before the 2012 election, the Obama campaign received a major illegal campaign contribution from the Commerce Department. The Department’s Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) reported on October 5, 2012 that the nation’s unemployment rate suddenly dropped sharply over the prior month, from 8.1% to 7.8%. That supposedly ended the longest period in the nation’s history with unemployment over 8%, except for the Great Depression, which occurred under President Obama.

        Just before the election. How convenient.

        That was totally unbelievable at the time, and I and others said so then. In my Forbes column the very next week, “President Obama’s Unemployment Still Stuck at 14.7%,” I noted how inconsistent the supposed unemployment drop was with other contemporaneous economic data. The sharp unemployment drop supposedly resulted from a total of 114,000 new jobs created in September, 2012, according to the Establishment Survey of business payrolls of the Bureau of Labor Statistics that the Obama Administration had been emphasizing throughout its first term. But economist John Lott noted at Foxnews.com that the working age population had grown by 206,000 in September, 2012. With normal labor force participation during a recovery from a steep recession, that would have required 138,000 new jobs that month, just to keep pace with population growth, let alone to reduce the unemployment rate.

        Moreover, the BLS also reported for September, 2012 that the number of full-time jobs declined by 216,000 in that month. The supposed 0.3% drop in unemployment that month was also inconsistent with that data. The unemployment rate had never before in American history declined by nearly a third of a point in one month, while the economy was losing over 200,000 full time jobs in the same month.

        Americans of every stripe are sick and tired of political games and policies that jerk citizens around (Obamacare)…which is why Trump’s blunt talk is resonating. It could be that as American’s catch on the tide is turning.

        • J. Soden says:

          Thanks, Tina. You said it much better than I could have and successfully took Chris to the woodshed. Well done!

          • Tina says:

            Thanks J. Soden!

            I was just thinking how important and valuable it is that some of us can say what’s necessary in just a just a few words. 🙂

        • Chris says:

          Tina: “Under Bush, who inherited the Clinton recession, with 911 on it’s heels, never had an unemployment rate over 6.1%.”

          Your own stats right before this show that unemployment went to 7.8 under Bush. His term ended in January 2009.

          Your comparisons between the recession Obama inherited v. those inherited by other presidents ignores a couple of key points: first, that the recession was worldwide, and second, that it was the worst recession in our history. Of course the recovery hasn’t been as vibrant as others; the recession was much, much worse than the others. You always ignore that when you make these comparisons.

          • Tina says:

            Thanks for the correction, Chris.

            Still, 7.1 is not 8 or 9 which we’ve had for many quarters AFTER the recession ended.

            Also it must be noted that Democrats took control of the House and senate in 2007. It was their 2008 budget that led to the tanking economy and, according to thinking expressed <a here, chronic unemployment.”

            It should also be noted that Democrats had control in the Senate during Bush’s tenure:

            Congress was fully controlled by Republicans just four of…eight years. The GOP ran the House from 2001 to 2007, Bush’s first six years in office, while Republicans only controlled the Senate from 2003 to 2007. (In Bush’s first three months, the Senate was divided 50-50 until the May 2001 defection of Republican Sen. James Jeffords gave Democrats control.)

            It’s not like he had a super majority like the Obama had at the beginning of his term.

            I suggest you read the article. It also has information about the revenue increases that followed to government after the Bush tax cuts.

            “…the recession was worldwide, and second, that it was the worst recession in our history.”

            That the recession was worldwide is irrelevant except for the fact that had we adopted better policies the world would have improved along with us. Instead they have faltered…as we have.

            There are differing opinions about this recession being the worst.

            Oct 2009 CATO:

            Both President Reagan and President Obama inherited an economy suffering from a year of no growth, along with rising unemployment. (The numbers are almost identical.) But Mr. Reagan faced a far direr situation in that inflation was in the double digits and the prime interest rate was at 20 percent. In contrast, Mr. Obama inherited an economy in which inflation was falling (in fact, inflation has been close to zero for this year) and interest rates were very low.

            A situation in which the number of jobs available is falling is bad enough, but if inflation is also destroying purchasing power, the misery is compounded. In the 1960s, economist Arthur M. Okun created the Misery Index by adding the unemployment rate to the inflation rate. In the 1976 presidential race, Jimmy Carter frequently attacked President Ford for allowing the Misery Index to reach 13.57, even though it was lower when Mr. Ford left office than what he had inherited from the Nixon years. Ironically, four years later, when President Carter was running against Ronald Reagan, the Misery Index reached a record high of 21.98. Mr. Carter had no defense and lost the election. The Misery Index dropped by more than 10 points during the Reagan presidency, the single largest improvement during any president’s tenure in the last half-century.

            What Obama can take credit for is, “The Worst Economic Recovery Since the Great Depression.”:

            Yes, the economy was in recession when President Obama entered office, which he never tires of telling us. But that was not unique to Obama. There have been 12 recessions in America since the Great Depression. The American people have forgotten what that was like because President Reagan and his Reaganite Republicans gave us a 25 year economic boom from 1982 to 2007 with no serious downturn.

            President Obama’s responsibility was to manage a timely, robust recovery to get America back on track again. His record in achieving that is not to be measured from the worst of the recession, but to previous recoveries in U.S. history. And, no, President Obama cannot say that his recovery is so bad because the recession was so bad (worse than he thought he now tells us, after spending all of 2008 telling us it was the worst recession since the Great Depression). The American historical record is that the worse the recession the stronger the recovery, as traditional, long-term, American prosperity has always been restored.

            Based on that historical record, we should be in the third year of an economic recovery boom right now. That is what we experienced under Reagan, which was the last time we recovered from a recession of similar magnitude.

  3. Peggy says:

    38 year low! Now, that’s something to be proud of. Bet the majority of Trump supports are amongst all of those out of work and those who haven’t seen a pay raise in 7 years.

    People have had it with both parties and Trumps promise to make America great again and put people back to work is very attractive to them. Because of his business experience people believe him or want to.

  4. Chris says:

    This is more due to changing demographics than the policies of any one president. Unemployment is low and we’ve had three years of straight job creation.

    Reagan raised the capital gains tax to make it equal with income tax. There is no evidence that keeping the capital gains tax at the extremely low rate we have today helps anyone but the wealthy.

    • Tina says:

      Man you are stubborn, Chris! There’s a ton of evidence! We’ve posted about it many times. You just refuse to get it. Those who lived through the expansion of small businesses and a booming economy know first hand how the economy surged in the Reagan years.

      But there is the matter of fully understanding what actually happened and how it is discussed. The article, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times? The real story,” by Matt K. Lewis, Senior Contributor – The Daily Caller is reproduced in full below…cause we really need to get this! Much thanks to Mr. Lewis.

      Ronald Reagan may have presided over the most significant tax reform effort in our nation’s history, yet historical revisionists are attempting to besmirch that legacy — while using him as a straw man against modern Republicans.

      Saying Ronald Reagan raised taxes is like saying Michael Jordan was a guy who struck out a lot — or that he was a failed baseball player: It’s factually correct, but misleading, nonetheless.

      I’ve decided to examine Reagan’s tax cuts and tax increases in order to set the record straight and end this tomfoolery.

      Over the course of his two terms in office, Reagan presided over several changes to the tax code. What is important to remember — what is vital to understand — is that not all taxes are created equal.

      When Democrats or media embrace Reagan for “raising taxes X number of times,” they are usually engaging in willful obfuscation. This is because they know that when most people hear the words, “tax hike,” they naturally assume you mean raising income taxes. But tax rates (both nominal and effective) dropped dramatically across-the-board during Reagan’s tenure.

      Not only did the top individual income tax rate go from 70 to 28 percent! — but the tax code was also indexed for inflation (this is a big deal, because inflation had heretofore pushed people into higher tax brackets — a double whammy.)

      Yet the notion that Reagan was a tax-hiker has persisted. In recent years, Republicans ranging from former Sen. Alan Simpson to Reagan aide Bruce Bartlett have been cited noting that Reagan raised taxes (he did.) But their statements are often taken out of context — as if to muddy the waters — to make it appear that Reagan was a fan of tax hikes.

      The typical tactic is to say Reagan raised taxes 11 or 12 times (the exact number depends on whom you ask.) But it’s unhelpful — in fact, it’s a bit misleading — to talk about how many times Reagan raised taxes. That’s because (as noted earlier) tax increases are not created equal. Some are much worse than others. And many of Reagan’s so-called “tax increases” were actually examples of ending deductions.

      Overall, Reagan dramatically cut the most odious of taxes.

      So, for those who care about the truth, here are some details. One of the tax increases Reagan signed (the Highway Revenue Act of 1982) was a temporary increase in the federal gas tax from 4 to 9 cents. (This could be thought of as a sort of “user fee,” inasmuch as the revenue generally went to roads and infrastructure.) Another was a cigarette tax (Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985.) These are real tax increases, but should not be confused with the income tax.

      (Reagan also deserves special criticism from free marketers on the right for raising the capital gains tax rate — as well as the corporate rate — in the Tax Reform Act of 1986.)

      Make no mistake, these were real tax increases — in some cases, “regressive” taxation — but they pale in comparison to the scale of the income tax cuts that defined the Reagan era. Again, it’s important to put things in context. When inaugurated, Reagan inherited a nation with 16 tax brackets — ranging from marginal rates of 14 percent to 70 percent. By 1989, that was down to two brackets — with marginal rates of 15 percent and 28 percent. (Those rates — and brackets — were short lived. By the time Clinton left office, the top marginal rate was back up to 39.6 percent. But you can’t blame Reagan for tax increases that came after his tenure. That’d be like President Obama blaming George W. Bush for tax cuts passed in 2011…)

      Again, my argument is that some taxes are more important than others. Do massive cuts to income taxes — perhaps the most confiscatory and arbitrary form of taxation (which disencentivize the very act of working) — carry the same weight as a temporary consumption tax increase which raised just over 3 billion in revenue a year? I would argue that the two clearly aren’t the same thing — and yet that distinction is seldom made

      So how has this canard advanced to a state where it would demand correction so many years later? Both sides have contributed to advancing this misleading narrative. It’s in nobody’s interest to clarify the distinction — that not all taxes hikes and cuts are equal. Conservatives who oppose all tax hikes (or revenue raisers such as removing deductions) gain little by exposing Reagan’s nuanced approach. Liberals benefit most from the opaqueness — because they can label Reagan a serial tax increaser — while ignoring the broader impact of his work on the federal tax racket.

      Facts matter. Reagan’s legacy has been co-opted and mangled by both sides. Yes, he raised taxes. Yes he cut taxes. The real story is how he raised taxes and how he cut them. And the overarching theme is that Reagan dramatically lowered tax rates and broadened the base. He was a reformer willing to make tough decisions. And at the end of the day, his legacy is that of a free market tax cutter. “If you aggregate together all the tax hikes … Reagan was a net tax cutter,” says Americans for Tax Reform’s Ryan Ellis. “I believe that makes him unique in the 20th century Cold War era. (Kennedy’s were passed by Johnson, who later raised taxes to pay for Vietnam).”

      Why is it important to set the record straight on this? Because liberals continue to attempt to hoodwink conservatives into supporting deficit reduction plans along the lines of tit for tat. “We’ll cut spending if you raise taxes.” Looking to history, though, conservatives should be wary of this feint.

      Reagan was offered such a deal (a 3-1 ratio of spending cuts to tax increases) in 1982, and it’s the reason he reluctantly agreed to the largest tax increase of his presidency, the “Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982.” The Democratic Congress then promptly proceeded to ignore the planned spending cuts. George H.W. Bush encountered the same trick in 1990. It cost him the presidency. The same idea was tossed out last summer — and smartly rejected by the GOP.

      President Reagan deserves better than to have his legacy misrepresented. It is healthy for us to properly assess his policies. He came into office amid very difficult times, vowing to restore the American dream. Considering the full body of his work, I’d say that was a mission well accomplished.

      Reagan worked hard for individual Americans. A sampling of Reagan quotes on taxes:

      “Simple fairness dictates that government must not raise taxes on families struggling to pay their bills.”

      “You can’t be for big government, big taxes, and big bureaucracy and still be for the little guy.”

      “The American people are not under taxed, the government in Washington is overfed.”

      “No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth!”

      “We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much.”

      “Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”

      History going back to the 1920’s at Discover the Networks offers more evidence. It includes the following quote from Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon — who served under Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge

      “The history of taxation shows that taxes which are inherently excessive are not paid. The high rates inevitably put pressure upon the taxpayer to withdraw his capital from productive business and invest it in tax-exempt securities or to find other lawful methods of avoiding the realization of taxable income. The result is that the sources of taxation are drying up; wealth is failing to carry its share of the tax burden; and capital is being diverted into channels which yield neither revenue to the Government nor profit to the people.”

      This is what the majority of big investors, businesses, and individuals have been doing through the Obama era…pulling out of the market, withdrawing capital, and seeking out safe havens. People react when they feel they are being taxed too much.

      It’s not rocket science or politics. It’s just common sense!

      • Chris says:

        Tina, I’ll only address one portion of the article you cited, since it’s the only one that relates to my point:

        “(Reagan also deserves special criticism from free marketers on the right for raising the capital gains tax rate — as well as the corporate rate — in the Tax Reform Act of 1986.)”

        Why does Reagan deserve criticism for raising the capital gains tax? The author doesn’t say. Later, he says this:

        “Again, my argument is that some taxes are more important than others. Do massive cuts to income taxes — perhaps the most confiscatory and arbitrary form of taxation (which disencentivize the very act of working) — carry the same weight as a temporary consumption tax increase which raised just over 3 billion in revenue a year?”

        I agree with the author that income taxes are more important than capital gains taxes, and that high income taxes could disencentivize the act of working.

        So why, then, should the capital gains tax be lower than the income tax? Why should Reagan be criticized for making them equal? If we really want to incentivize work, then taxing capital gains at a lower rate than income doesn’t make any sense. It shows that we value the investor class more than the working class. Since most wealthy people make the majority of their money in capital gains rather than earned income–and the majority of everybody else barely makes anything in capital gains–this system represents a huge giveaway to the rich, the people who need it the least.

        I had no intention of misrepresenting Reagan’s record, and I don’t think I did so. I was not speaking of his overall tax plan, and I agree he was a net tax cutter. I was speaking only of the capital gains tax.

        I would be in favor of a compromise in which income taxes were lowered, deductions and loopholes were reduced and the capital gains tax was increased. This seems to have been a large part of Reagan’s plan; no wonder prosperity followed. Since then, loopholes have only gotten bigger, and while Republicans say they will close them, they are never specific about which ones.

        • Tina says:

          Chris: “Why does Reagan deserve criticism for raising the capital gains tax? The author doesn’t say.”

          Raising capital gains rates isn’t conservative.

          Today criticism could be considered a retort for the exaggerated radical left narrative and accounting of the Reagan record.

          Raising rates today, or not lowering them, would be a particularly bad idea since rates around the world are lower than ours.

          In 1986 Reagan and the Republicans in Congress worked with Democrats, honoring the balance of power in our system. (Obama has not given an inch!) Neither side got everything they wanted. Reagan had purpose behind his signature…closing loopholes being one and simplifying the code being another:

          The Tax Reform Act of 1986 shifted a large part of the tax burden from individuals to corporations; it also exempted millions of low-income households from federal income taxes. Reagan called it “a sweeping victory for fairness” where “vanishing loopholes and a minimum tax will mean that everybody and every corporation pay their fair share.”…”The 1986 act was really a coming together of the liberal idea of getting rid of tax loopholes with the conservative idea of flattening the tax rates,” he says, “and so each side felt that they had something to gain by the effort.”

          Another reason conservatives today hold firm against raising corporate and investment rates, see here:

          IRS data shows that in 2004, the richest 50% of the taxpayers paid 96.7% of all income taxes. From 1986 to 2004, the share paid by the richest half increased from 93.5% to 96.7%, and the share paid by the richest 1% increased from 25.75% to 36.89%. At the same time, the amount paid by the poorer half decreased from 6.5% in 1986 to 3.3% in 2004. While the poor’s contribution was cut in half, the richest Americans saw their contribution increase by nearly 50%. When you get past the propaganda, for the last two decades the rich have been paying more and more while the poor have been paying less and less.

          Today the rich pay a much larger share than in 1986:

          In 1980, the bottom 90 percent of taxpayers paid 50.72 percent of income taxes. In 2011 (the most recent year the data is available), the bottom 90 percent paid 31.74 percent of taxes. On the flip side, the top 1 percent paid 19.05 percent of taxes in 1980 and now pay 35.06 percent of taxes.

          One reason for the decline in the bottom 90 percent’s tax share is likely the proliferation of tax credits. In the last 30 years, the number of tax credits has increased, specifically refundable tax credits.

          An interesting piece of information from the chart below is that after the 01/03 Bush tax cuts, often claimed to be a tax cut for the rich, the tax burden of the top 1 percent actually increased significantly

          Sounds like many of the tax “loopholes” advantage the bottom 90%.

          Circumstances in our economy don’t remain static. What Reagan agreed to in 1986 is not necessarily something he’d agree to today.

          I don’t think anyone looking at lowering the investment tax rate (Capital gains) is looking at in any way other than from the perspective of competition with nations around the world. Our economy is tied much more to that of other nations today, as is the need to compete.

          ” It shows that we value the investor class more than the working class.”

          No, it shows we value investment because of the opportunities it opens up for EVERYONE!

          Chris thinking steeped in class envy is useless in this argument.

          I’m part of the investment class (small part in retirement investment and savings). I earned every penny of the money I placed in those accounts and I will be taxed (income) when I take the money out, as I must do at age 71 or so) at a rate dependent on other earnings. I will also pay capital gains tax on dividends and interest.

          Capital gains rates must be at a level that allows America to compete and gives the wealthy incentive to invest here at home. The investment will benefit every class and every person that wants to work>

          “I would be in favor of a compromise in which income taxes were lowered, deductions and loopholes were reduced and the capital gains tax was increased. This seems to have been a large part of Reagan’s plan; no wonder prosperity followed. ”

          The US cap gains rate is noncompetitive today and has contributed greatly to the jobs problem and the sluggish economy. Keeping it higher than other nations or worse, raising it, would be incredibly wrongheaded. Does it occur to you that your position is about class rather than sensible policy that would benefit all?

          I’ve offered evidence that the lower classes have been better off under conservative policies that create growth and prosperity and are worse off under policies that punish and stifle private sector investment.

          “Since then, loopholes have only gotten bigger, and while Republicans say they will close them, they are never specific about which ones.”

          Maybe that’s because they have concentrated on eliminating all of them by changing our broken tax code completely! There are several plans that could be considered if they were not immediately rejected by the opposition party. They will not engage, preferring to use it as a political tool. In my experience the radicals that have taken over the Dem Party don’t want compromise; they want absolute power and control and they want to separate all of us from as much money as they can get.

  5. Steve says:

    What gets me is the liberal mentality that is so against tax cuts even with clear proof of economic stimulus. They source of their opposition is not based in whether or not it is economically sound. They are against tax cuts because they want to “stick it to the rich.” They have been polarized to hate American success.
    Unfortunately, tax increases hurt the middle class and poor more than the rich. Look at California. We have the highest taxes in the nation and we still can’t pave our roads. There are more poor in CA than any other state in the nation. Yet we subsidize electric cars for the rich. Everyone who pays attention knows the system is broken here.
    I would ask liberals to define what is the ultimate tax rate for taxpayers? Is it 10%? 15%? What tax rate can we settle on where they won’t come back a year later and ask for more? Liberals will never settle because for them there is never enough. I believe some of them think taxes should be at 100%, because you didn’t build that. But 100% is slavery, and people everywhere just wanna be free.

    • Chris says:

      I’m not against tax cuts. Obama passed many tax cuts on the middle class, and I supported them.

      There is no “ideal tax rate” that works in all cases. Sometimes they need to be cut and sometimes they need to be raised. Reagan understood this, and acted accordingly. Today’s Republicans, who claim to be Reaganites, don’t understand that at all.

      • Steve says:

        Chris,
        I appreciate you commenting on this site, and sometimes I do feel for you as you take a lot of flak for your opinions. You’re not the only liberal out there and I can’t tell you how often if I get into a debate over taxes with liberal friends, it always comes down to them saying that the rich don’t deserve all that money and need to be taxed more. I’m not sure they even know or care where all the money goes!
        Clearly, conservatives don’t always agree with each other either. I get it that Reagan made decisions that don’t always seem to jive with the mindset of today’s conservatives. I really appreciate Reagan (and Goldwater) for giving life to the conservative movement, but that doesn’t mean I would support all of his decisions today.
        As a Californian, I’m paying some of the highest taxes in the nation. I, and most of my forty something middle class friends are all struggling to get by in ways I don’t remember our parents having to struggle. All I see is a government that eats up more and more of the investable money in our economy that could be used for job and wealth creation.

        • Chris says:

          Thanks, Steve.

          I also talk to a lot of people (of my generation) who are struggling in ways their parents didn’t have to. My parents’ and grandparents’ generations both had a lot of societal advantages that don’t exist today. The minimum wage, in real dollars, was worth more. You could start a job and have a pretty good guarantee that you’d keep it, that you’d get a good raise after a period of time, and that you could pay for college with your earnings. Not coincidentally, more people were unionized, meaning that workers had more bargaining power.

          A lot of people like to imagine that the reason for today’s problems is just that people are lazy, but that just isn’t true. If you look at the stats Millenials are in many ways more responsible than our parents. We’re doing less drugs, having less sex, and going to college in greater numbers despite the obstacles in our paths to get there. Productivity levels are also higher. We’ve followed the advice that “If you want to get ahead, you just have to work harder and get more educated”–and for a lot of people, that advice just hasn’t worked.

          You’re right that many liberals blame the rich without being fully informed on the exact problems in our society. By the same token, many conservatives blame the poor based on the same sense of ignorance. The difference is that one of these scapegoats is obviously a lot more powerful than the other. The other difference is that one of them actually does bear a lot of responsibility for the problem.

          • Tina says:

            Chris I also appreciate your continuing to post here. As the (almost) lone liberal you are constantly in the hot seat and you stick with it like a trooper.

            “…more people were unionized, meaning that workers had more bargaining power.”

            The problem is the unions abused that power and pushed for raises and benefits to the point that the companies couldn’t survive. Then they automated and people lost their jobs. They moved operations to Mexico and people lost their jobs. The unions are largely motivated by the tactics of the mob and Marx…not a good idea if you want to keep your job and see your company remain competitive so you do.

            “If you look at the stats Millennials are in many ways more responsible than our parents. We’re doing less drugs, having less sex, and going to college in greater numbers despite the obstacles in our paths to get there. Productivity levels are also higher. We’ve followed the advice that “If you want to get ahead, you just have to work harder and get more educated”–and for a lot of people, that advice just hasn’t worked.”

            It hasn’t worked because of the lengthy sluggish economy and the size of government that eats up our personal paychecks, the companies investment reserves, and investors profits. it’s because the tangle of regulations make it very costly and difficult to do business. It’s because the fee for attending college has gotten outrageously high…I believe unnecessarily.

            We on the right are fighting in your corner and you don’t see or appreciate it.

            “many conservatives blame the poor”

            I don’t know a single person, nor have I read a single opinion, that “blames the poor” for the conditions we are all living under.

            We deplore the government for giving the poor little incentive to rise above poverty, and the Democrats for failing to acknowledge that the Great Society is an abject failure so we can look for better ways to do things.

            It’s frustrating to me; I have kids and grandchildren who are struggling. All attempts to educate and inform about what would work fall on deaf ears. After the past seven years I would think millennials would judge the radicals in favor of big government expansion on the performance…for “what they do” instead of “what they say.”

            “The difference is that one of these scapegoats is obviously a lot more powerful than the other.”

            The “difference” is that one is really trying to help and the other is simply going for more power

            “The other difference is that one of them actually does bear a lot of responsibility for the problem. ”

            Yes, the one you think is so wonderful because of what they say. Open your eyes…and your mind!

          • Post Scripts says:

            Tina, you are so right on, the pearls of wisdom you give to Chris (and all of us) are much appreciated. -Jack

        • Tina says:

          “All I see is a government that eats up more and more of the investable money in our economy that could be used for job and wealth creation.”

          And help to secure aging seniors that will soon be on fixed income.

          Remember during the Carter years when seniors were buying dog food to eat? Inflation was out of control and dog food was all they could afford. They had to choose between the quality of the food and being warm in the winter months.

          This time they’ve kept inflation down by artificially stimulating the stock market. I guess they think that represents the overall economy when in fact it represents the investors and all but the wealthiest have been reluctant to get in…too risky.

      • Tina says:

        Chris, The Laffer Curve gives us a place to start.

        Wikipedia explaines the purpose behind the curve: “The Laffer curve claims to illustrate the concept of taxable income elasticity—i.e., taxable income will change in response to changes in the rate of taxation.” If we are smart we will start from there because understanding human responses to rate changes is vital to managing a good balance. The Laffer Center explains it more thoroughly.

        “Sometimes they need to be cut and sometimes they need to be raised. Reagan understood this, and acted accordingly. Today’s Republicans, who claim to be Reaganites, don’t understand that at all.”

        Chris the size of government, the incredible level of government waste and fraud, the unsustainable programs that add to the debt, revenues that are allocated for one purpose being directed to another, the excess of bureaucratic spending on conferences and other nonessential things, corporatism, and trickery engaged in by our “servants” when they add pork projects to budgets and spending bills before and after they’ve passed are all very good reasons to resist raising tax rates.

        The people supposedly working on our behalf in DC are dysfunctional, opportunistic, unthinking, corrupt, and unconscious about how what they do affects the average household in America. They don’t see the whole picture; they just concentrate on what they are “doing for the people” at any given time. This has to stop.

        It isn’t that Republicans don’t recognize the need for a federal government and tax rates and revenues to support it. It’s that republicans (conservatives) can see that simply demanding more from us isn’t the solution to our problems…we’ve been taxed enough…they have not managed the money it well.

        You would never give a child candy and sweets every time they demanded it, it wouldn’t be healthy. The same holds for Washington where excesses grow by the hour, demand is constant, and taxation, not just of income and investment but the hidden taxes and fees in complex regulations, are hurting America.

        Once again, it is simple common sense.

        Democrats believe in the big bureaucracy, that’s why they always have a new tax or fee in the wings, that’s why they always have a new cause that, they say, requires federal government answers…socialism Marx would agree.

        Republicans believe in the power of people to create businesses and jobs and to solve our problems more locally. Our founders agreed.

        “Good constitutions are formed upon a comparison of the liberty of the individual with the strength of government: If the tone of either be too high, the other will be weakened too much. It is the happiest possible mode of conciliating these objects, to institute one branch peculiarly endowed with sensibility, another with knowledge and firmness. Through the opposition and mutual control of these bodies, the government will reach, in its regular operations, the perfect balance between liberty and power.” – Alexander Hamilton 1788 – speech to the New York Ratifying Convention

        “No political truth is certainly of greater intrinsic value, or is stamped with the authority of more enlightened patrons of liberty than that on which the objection is founded. The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.” – James Madison 1788 – Federalist No. 48

    • Tina says:

      Nicely said Steve! People do want to be free. And liberals are never satisfied. If they can’t find a way to raise taxes directly they find a way to raise them through hidden taxes, regulations, and fees.

      Americans are getting poorer because we are taxed so much. Our income is under constant assault from one tax or another: income tax at federal and state levels, investment and savings, property, gasoline and energy, phone, registration fees, construction, hunting, sales tax…the list goes on and on.

      I wish they were all visible and paid directly…the people would march on DC and Sacto with pitchforks in hand if they could experience the spending power being stolen from them by excessive taxes and the mismanagement of tax monies.

  6. Peggy says:

    I really wish the Real U-6 figure was used instead of the U-3, which only represents those on unemployment. When people lose their unemployment insurance they don’t vaporize and disappear into thin air. They’re still out their and need to be counted.

    Here are a couple of charts from the BLS that give a real picture of just how bad it still is after 7 years of a failed recovery.

    Current U-6 Unemployment Rate:
    “Current U-6 Unemployment Rate is 10.3% (BLS) and 14.2% (Gallup)

    For August 2015 the official U-6 unemployment rate fell from 10.7% in July to 10.3% in August. The independently produced Gallup equivalent called the “Underemployment Rate” fell from 14.4% in July to 14.2% in August.

    The current differential between Gallup and BLS on supposedly the same data is 3.9%!”

    http://unemploymentdata.com/current-u6-unemployment-rate/

    Table A-15. Alternative measures of labor underutilization:
    “NOTE: Persons marginally attached to the labor force are those who currently are neither working nor looking for work but indicate that they want and are available for a job and have looked for work sometime in the past 12 months. Discouraged workers, a subset of the marginally attached, have given a job-market related reason for not currently looking for work. Persons employed part time for economic reasons are those who want and are available for full-time work but have had to settle for a part-time schedule. Updated population controls are introduced annually with the release of January data.”

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

    Table A-12. Unemployed persons by duration of unemployment:
    (Note most of the numbers have gone up including the average and mean duration in weeks.)

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

    • Peggy says:

      From the desk of Sharyl Attkisson.

      “Labor participation has hit 62.6% –a 38 year low.

      This means more than 37% of America’s potential work force has given up or isn’t even trying to find a job. More than one in three. And that means the burden of feeding the payroll tax monster–paying taxes on wages and for social security–is falling upon a shrinking group of people who do work.

      The dim statistic is at odds with others more often cited in the news media as reason for optimism. For example, there are more job openings today than at any point since the government began tracking it in 2000. In June, the unemployment rate was at a seven year low: 5.3 percent. In August it fell to 5.1 percent. So how could it also be true that so many people aren’t even trying to work?

      That’s because of a statistical decision the government made in 1994. It decided that people who aren’t working and haven’t been interested in looking for a job for a long time shouldn’t be counted as unemployed. They are simply removed from the calculation, as if they don’t exist.

      At the time, the government’s Bureau of Labor Statistics called it “a relatively minor change.” But the result has been that, ever since 1994, the unemployment figure under both Democrat and Republican administrations looks better than it otherwise would. Sometimes, far better.

      Using this statistical method, the Bureau of Labor Statistics removed 640,000 Americans from unemployment statistics in June. They joined almost 94 million others who aren’t working and aren’t looking. Critics argue the statistic is accurate but misleading because the Bureau of Labor Statistics includes many people who are too old or too young to work.”

      https://sharylattkisson.com/labor-day-2015-93-7-million-american-adults-arent-working-arent-trying/

  7. Peggy says:

    One more chart shows just how bad the employment picture is and has been since Obama took office. Even a Doubting Thomas should be able to grasp this.

    Labor Force Participation Rate:
    Jan. 2009 – 65.7%
    Aug. 2015 – 62.6%

    Graph and chart shows a steady decline since Jan. 2009.

    http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

  8. Tina says:

    Peggy this needs to be highlighted:

    This means more than 37% of America’s potential work force has given up or isn’t even trying to find a job. More than one in three. And that means the burden of feeding the payroll tax monster–paying taxes on wages and for social security–is falling upon a shrinking group of people who do work.”

    What a terrible time to have a shrunken work force!

    Some of us of retirement age are still working as a result of the poor economy, the constant threat of inflation or deflation, and younger people that need the work our businesses provide.

    This is so stupid. It isn’t like we don’t know what works; it’s that our leaders refuse to admit to it. How the heck do Democrats continue to get away with this miserable record?

  9. Peggy says:

    Thanks Tina for highlighting that. Afraid I haven’t learned how to use the HTML functions. I was also shocked when I read the 640,000 people who had dropped out of the count for June alone. Considering all of the other months the people who have give up is mind blowing. It’s no wonder there are so many homeless in Chico and everywhere.

    Here is someone who does have a job and shouldn’t. But, of course he/she works for the gov’t so their name isn’t even being disclosed.

    Senior Commerce official’s family watched porn on gov’t computers, watchdog finds:

    “A senior official at the Department of Commerce obtained seven computers and iPads from the government, some of which were then used by family members to watch porn, according to an investigation by the Office of Inspector General (OIG).

    The employee, who was unnamed but who heads administrative services for an entire division within the agency, is accused of abusing government policies, overcharging taxpayers for travel, and not cooperating with the OIG investigation.

    The official had “no less than seven government-issued computer resources at her private residence, including two desktop computers, three laptop computers, and at least two iPad tablets, suggesting she was, at a minimum, indifferent to her obligation to conserve government property and resources.”

    “Additionally, a forensic review of two of these computers revealed that inappropriate materials—including pornographic, sexually suggestive, and racially offensive materials—were either saved on or accessed through the government-owned equipment maintained at Senior Official’s residence,” the audit said.

    A whistleblower alerted the OIG to the senior official’s actions in December 2013. During the investigation, the senior official attempted to retaliate against an employee for cooperating with the investigation by suspending him or her for three days without pay. The official also wiped data from one of her government-issued iPads, according to the OIG.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/02/senior-commerce-official-let-family-members-download-porn-on-govt-computers/

  10. Tina says:

    One thing that’s an encouraging sign is the whistle blowing that’s going on. WB’s have to know that they have the people at their backs. it would seem they do!

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