by Jack
They were teenage girls from Austria seeking adventure. They were idealistic, fervent Muslims, and they were caught up in the romantic notion that they could leave their families and join the fight with ISIS. They would be warriors for Allah and yes, die for the ISIS, if necessary.
They were so courageous and so naïve, so trusting and. . . so stupid; something that proved to be a fatal combination.
They cleverly escaped from the safety and love of their families, motivated by all sorts of grandiose thoughts about ISIS fed to them by a local Imam.
At first all went well. They found their way to the ISIS and battlefield and they were soon given over to couple of ISIS fighters as servant wives…those lucky girls!
“Samra Kesinovic and Sabina Selimovic, both of Bosnian heritage, disappeared from their homes in 2014, leaving a note for their families which read: “Don’t look for us. We will serve Allah and we will die for him.”
Samra and Sabina travelled to Syria via Turkey after allegedly being brainwashed by Bosnian Islamist preacher Ebu Tejma in Vienna.
He denies the claims. Both the girls – then 17 and 15 – married IS fighters soon after their arrival in Raqqa, and were photographed in full burqas carrying Kalashnikovs surrounded by armed men, images used by the terror group to draw other young girls to Syria.
At the time Sabina told Paris Match in a series of Tweets: “Here I can really be free. I can practice my religion. I couldn’t do that in Vienna.” Sabina was reported dead soon afterwards, apparently during fighting in the city. Samra reportedly wrote to her family soon after arriving, saying she wanted to leave because she was sickened by IS brutality, but she was unable to do so.
Samra tried to escape ISIS, but she was caught and savagely beaten to death. This was not an unforeseeable conclusion and the girls had ample warnings about ISIS barbarity, but they chose to ignore it. They went far out of their way to get themselves killed and all that is left of them is this prophetic declaration: “We will serve Allah and we will die for him.”
There it is, another Muslim’s wish come true!
All I can say now is, congratulations girls, you did it! You had a very clever plan and you carried it out brilliantly. Now you’re dead. Good job. Oh, and my congratulations to your grieving families. They played their part too. They raised you to be a fanatic, they laid the ground work during your formative years and that ultimately led to your romantic misadventure with ISIS. Good job parents!
The girls join a growing list of idiots that got themselves killed because they were lured to ISIS by their fanatical religious beliefs.
You should read the story of Tyler Casey sometime. It’s very revealing. He was an Australian kid who married a Muslim girl and went to Syria. They’ve both dead too.
“In January 2014, a young Australian couple was gunned down in Aleppo by rival rebel Syrian forces.Amira Karroum and her husband Tyler Casey were devout Muslims who travelled to Syria to join the global jihad.
But how do a boy from the Brisbane suburbs and a girl from the Gold Coast beaches end up dead in one of the world’s most brutal conflicts?” (I bet there was an Imam involved somewhere)
Another excellent article, Jack.
“…Oh, and my congratulations to your grieving families. They played their part too. They raised you to be a fanatic, they laid the ground work during your formative years and that ultimately led to your romantic misadventure with ISIS. Good job parents!”
Let’s not leave out the politics of this. When a clear stark line is not drawn, when leaders shrink from exposing the details of the brutality of our enemy and his ultimate tyrannical goals, young people, who tend toward romantic fantasy, are left vulnerable to those despicable Imams.
Teenagers are often not emotionally equipped to make good decisions, which is why “laying the groundwork” in their formative years is so important. It’s why, as a society, we must uphold strong moral and ethical values. Young people need strong guideposts and support…not the fairy dust that’s sprinkled liberally when it comes to life changing choices.
I find the tone here really unnecessary. These were children brainwashed into a suicide cult. They didn’t deserve this fate; it was a tragedy. Gloating about how they were “idiots” and stopping just short of saying they deserved their death is extremely insensitive.
Chris, grow up. Mockery is a powerful tool and it’s used by the left all the time or haven’t you noticed? The left are master of mockery and ridicule! From what I’ve been witnessing happening in the Middle East for decades and now with ISIS, I feel I could not be TOO strong in my opinion and condemnation. I said exactly what I felt was warranted to say to as rebuke against the other teens who romanticize what Muslims in ISIS are doing.
But, th3e sad fact is you can removed the child from the jihad, but you can’t removed the jihad from the child. These tender young girls were fated to die violently and young because they were brainwashed! Yes, they were by their religion and their radical Imam. And before that their parents were brainwashed. They were Muslim refugees from Bosnia, they were saved from one war only to lose their children in another.
Somehow they saw nothing wrong with the Imam that influenced these girls at their mosque. Their parents missed all the clues of what the girls were planning… to die for Allah, while killing infidels. Yeah, we hear that a lot don’t we? Makes me sick.
The radical Muslim game plan of conquest is doing fine thanks to all the aiding and abetting and all the deniers of the vile truth.
Its divide and conquer, seduce by a silver tongue or silvered blade…it’s all good! What a shame, what an outrageous, unholy, despicable shame and the best you can do is find fault with me for mocking this EVIL? You “find this tone unnecessary?” Ha! I find beheading innocent people unnecessary! I find beating to death a little girl who tried to escape after she learned too late what monsters she had joined….unnecessary! How can my tone even come close to that horror? Get your priorities straight Chris, we’re in a war.
Three cheers Jack!
Yes, Jack: obviously I find your sarcasm far worse than actual beheadings and terrorism. That is totally a rational and fair response to what I wrote, and not at all a stupid and fallacious attempt to deflect criticism.
Ridiculous.
I guess Chris doesn’t believe in tough love.
Anyone remember the prison program, scared straight?
The (teen) kids that agreed to attend this program had long records and were in danger of committing crimes that would result in long prison terms or the death penalty.
One of the problems today is our kids are being sheltered against obvious dangers. When many in our population make moral equivalent arguments, defend illegal activity, celebrate the unlawful use of drugs, and romanticize revolution how are our young people supported in making better decisions?
These girls were indoctrinated, yes, but they apparently had no ground of being to help them question what they were being told. When kids don’t have alarm bells going off in their heads when given the choice to join ISIS you have to ask, “”What the heck have they been told in OUR culture that made them think this was an attractive alternative?”
It’s also a bit insensitive to project victim-hood status onto these girls so that in future other young people don’t get it. Jack didn’t just call them idiots; he clearly acknowledged that naivete and misplaced trust ‘fatally” drove their stupidity:
Jacks tone is indicative of one who wears big boy pants. A firm lock on the truth with brutal honesty about the consequences one should avoid. We need more DADS like Jack if we want to avoid this kind of “stupidity” in our young folks. Most of them appreciate it too.
Tina, there’s no such thing as “tough love” against someone who is already dead.
If the article was aimed at vulnerable teens who might join ISIS, there wasn’t any indication of it.
I also find it hard to blame our “culture” for something like this, which is incredibly rare. The blame more likely lies with the parents.
(I also have to laugh at “romanticizing revolution.” In America? Never!)
The tough love, expressed after the fact by quite a little while, is meant for other young people. I think I made that pretty clear.
You aren’t imagining that kids can’t or don’t learn from the mistakes of other kids, or the reactions of their parents and other authority figures, are you?
My comments about the culture were general and apply to any dumb choice kids make (or adults, frankly). The point is kids aren’t very well supported in the world once they begin to venture out on their own. And I disagree with you about this instance. As I wrote, when leaders do not make it absolutely clear who the enemy is and how dangerous they are, and how horribly they treat women, and in the case of some, how they use their children as sacrificial murderers and when leadership shies away from declaring that we represent the good guys it’s easy to see how a young person could be confused.
As someone in England said, PC is killing us!
“I also have to laugh at “romanticizing revolution.” In America? Never! ”
I wasn’t talking about revolution in America. I was talking about all of the young skulls full of mush and their Marxist professors wearing Che shirts and thinking everything is just wonderful in Cuba! I was talking about the numbskulls that thought the Marxist Sandanistas were fighting for democracy and equality.
I too missed that this happened in Austria. But it doesn’t matter where this happened to me. We live in a global reality whether we like it or not. As far as I’m concerned we should stand up for American values and hope and pray that the world follows suit. I can’t think of a single one that wouldn’t serve any nation, and her children, well. I also can’t think of a single one that most people don’t share, unless they too have been oppressed and indoctrinated.
Chris added later, “If the article was aimed at vulnerable teens who might join ISIS, there wasn’t any indication of it.” Yes, there was and it was the basis of the entire article. It was written solely to condemn the people who would entertain such thoughts in the strongest possible terms and it was also intended to outrage and inflame readers against such people.
Whoops–I somehow missed that this happened in Austria, not the US. In which case, condemnations of “OUR culture” (emphasis yours) for letting this happen are even more ridiculous.
Jack, this was a great article and your doing a excellent service by telling it how it really is, Hopefully maybe you’ll influence another to understand and learn how it will be, before it is to late!
THANK YOU HAROLD AND TINA….YOU BOTH GOT IT! : ) Some day I hope Chris will rise above the fog and see what you see.
Tina: “The tough love, expressed after the fact by quite a little while, is meant for other young people. I think I made that pretty clear.”
You did, but I wasn’t convinced by it. Does this site have a lot of teen readers? Does it have a lot of teen readers who are at risk of joining ISIS? I find that highly unlikely, and I find it even more unlikely that such a troubled teen would read this article and be persuaded not to join ISIS, which is why I find the “tough love” defense of the tone here weak. The article was gloating over the deaths of these teenagers, and “tough love” is an excuse, not a reason.
“You aren’t imagining that kids can’t or don’t learn from the mistakes of other kids, or the reactions of their parents and other authority figures, are you?”
I’m not imagining that this article is going to have any influence on a kid who is so far gone as to be thinking about joining ISIS. Are you? Because that would be pretty arrogant and naive.
The only “tough love” mentally disturbed kids like that need is from their parents, their psychologists, or possibly the state. Snarky blog posts are not going to help them or teach them anything.
“As I wrote, when leaders do not make it absolutely clear who the enemy is and how dangerous they are, and how horribly they treat women, and in the case of some, how they use their children as sacrificial murderers and when leadership shies away from declaring that we represent the good guys it’s easy to see how a young person could be confused.”
And you know exactly what the leaders of Austria have said about ISIS, and what they haven’t said? (Heck, do you even know the name of the Austrian president without Googling it? I didn’t.)
If you’re talking about leaders closer to home, the idea that our own president hasn’t condemned ISIS strongly enough is ludicrous.
“As someone in England said, PC is killing us!”
Your own sense of “political correctness” is what is driving you to see everything in political terms, even when they don’t apply, and to blame politicians in foreign countries whom you know nothing about for a couple of mentally disturbed teenagers joining a cultish terrorist group. It is politically correct, in your circles, to suggest that our own leader has not spoken strongly enough against ISIS or made it clear that they are the enemy; nevermind that this has no connection with reality, it buys you political capital among your in-group, so you continue to say it. That’s what political correctness is; saying things that aren’t true, or refusing to say things that are true, for the sake of politics.
“I wasn’t talking about revolution in America. I was talking about all of the young skulls full of mush and their Marxist professors wearing Che shirts and thinking everything is just wonderful in Cuba! I was talking about the numbskulls that thought the Marxist Sandanistas were fighting for democracy and equality.”
And those people suck, but they have absolutely nothing to do with these Austrian teenagers joining ISIS. It’s ridiculous to suggest a connection. You see everything as stemming from a common enemy; some kind of “original sin” traced back to Karl Marx, so everything, even two Austrian girls joining ISIS, is somehow the fault of progressives everywhere.
“And those people suck, but they have absolutely nothing to do with these Austrian teenagers joining ISIS. It’s ridiculous to suggest a connection. You see everything as stemming from a common enemy; some kind of “original sin” traced back to Karl Marx, so everything, even two Austrian girls joining ISIS, is somehow the fault of progressives everywhere.”
Wow, Chris, you really let your closed, prejudiced little mind run wild!
Of course what I wrote has something to do with it! I wrote:
We have kids in America that think Hamas isn’t a dangerous, evil organization! How the he77 did they come to think that way?
I couldn’t have made the point any more clear! We don’t make distinctions today in our society. In fact the liberal preference is to discourage it. Morals are whatever anyone says they are and nobody is supposed to question…”who am I to judge?”
There are no guideposts to protect kids from OBVIOUS dangers! ISIS is an OBVIOUS danger. Hamas is an OBVIOUS danger.
Given the added information in Jacks last comment, this is also an indication that refugees are not all assimilating to Western values.
Tina, nowhere did you show that any of those things are happening in Austria, where this took place.
I need to add another point of clarity.
“You see everything as stemming from a common enemy; some kind of “original sin” traced back to Karl Marx, so everything, even two Austrian girls joining ISIS, is somehow the fault of progressives everywhere.””
I don’t waste my time “blaming” people Chris. I am as responsible as anyone else for the state of our society at home and in the rest of the western world.
I point to what I see are areas of influence, good and bad. I’m an observer of the greater picture. I tend to expand on things others bring forward. I look for problems and possible solutions. When I find trends that I believe do harm I speak up. I think seeing and identifying negative trends is the beginning of positive resolution. I have no interest in imposing my views. I do have a profound interest in sharing my thoughts and being an influence for good.
You weren’t around to see it, but there was a major shift in the western world in the sixties. I see the influence of Marx in that shift. I’ve told you many times that you do not know the people in power in your party, or the people that influenced their thinking. I offer the following, in case you’d like to increase your knowledge and sense of history.
Accuracy in Academia, “The Origins of Political Correctness”
Transcript of the video: Political Correctness: The Frankfurt School Story
Political Correctness/Cultural Marxism, discover the Networks
That last link leads to a site conceived by David Horowitz, a former communist, and son of communists, who was at Berkley in the 1960’s and a participant in the radical left movement. I’ve recommended his book, as has Pie, describing his personal history and eventual transformation. He worked with the Muslim Brotherhood…it’s quite a story from an insiders view. The book is, Radical Son: A Generational Oddysey
Regarding the rise of social democracy in Europe:
A history is posted at Marxist.org.
If you’re going to identify with progressive ideology, and social democracy, you should at least know what’s behind it. It wouldn’t hurt for you to take another look at the unique nature of this country, where before the $#!%-stirrers of the sixties we did a pretty decent job of minding our own business, respecting the rights of others, following a live and let live-love your neighbor as yourself, and raising our children to know right from wrong and evil from good. The fog in the air and the mud under our feet that derives from progressive influence is a problem for western society whether you can see it or not.
In particular, AMERICA, AS FOUNDED, is different. Our nation was not founded on any brand of socialism. But the foundation of this nation is being eroded by socialist thought and political correctness is the abrasive medium currently in use by these radical elements.
I reiterate: Those girls did not have the support at home or in their society to protect them from the lure of ISIS. My remarks at the beginning were based on an assumption that these girls were American. Later remarks were colored by the assumption that they were European; I did not know they were Syrian refugees. But these revelations make no difference to the larger point: If we want to raise strong kids who resist dangers and make good choices, we need to be specific about good and evil and give them a solid foundation for knowing the difference.
Tina: “: Those girls did not have the support at home or in their society to protect them from the lure of ISIS.”
Your point about their home is obvious. But you don’t know much about their “society,” and the things you have said about Austria and its leaders remain completely unsupported.
Chris you have no idea of what I am speaking. I guess that’s a clear indication that PC has a firm hold in your inexperienced worldview.
Social standards have been completely compromised by the “anything goes, we can’t judge others” context developed and promoted over the last 50 years. Since the advent of the internet this open ended social context has become more universal than ever. Nothing in western society supports parents who are trying to instill in their children that it’s wise to evaluate and judge, in fact, it’s just the opposite.
And by the way, none of my observations were targeted toward Austria or it’s leaders specifically. As you know neither of us realized the girls lived in Austria originally. Once that fact was made known I spoke to the western community as a whole. Your objection is unnecessary.
Over the past few years American leaders have acted as if all people are the same. Other world leaders have been PC even before Obama. The notion that all people are the same may be true at the moment of birth but after that you can forget it.
Over the past fifty years the notion that there is no right or wrong has blossomed in the west. What a crock! Sorry, but it is wrong, according to traditional western culture, to impose your religion on others or subject them to tyrannical rule. The left resists that truth like it was small pox. Our leaders not only avoid stating that clearly, they attempt to nullify that aspect of Islamic terrorism, preferring to treat the problem with delicacy and softened rhetoric, excuses, and appeasement. In some cases western leaders have even attempted to blame the west for the rise of this radical scourge.
Take off that faux intellectual PC hat and look at the stark reality! Those girls were NOT supported in knowing an enemy, ISIS. (However, if their parents encouraged them they were well supported by a society that says there’s no difference, we in the west are just as bad. ISIS is justified. It’s understandable that they engage in violent jihad)
Tina, you speak in such extreme generalizations that it is impossible to see your arguments as meaningful. You write:
“And by the way, none of my observations were targeted toward Austria or it’s leaders specifically.”
How can you blame “society” for these girls’ actions if you are not talking about their society, which is Austria? Even if you didn’t know that originally, you do know that now, and you haven’t modified any of your claims.
And yes, you did make your point about poor leadership after finding out this took place in Austria. But you’ve given no evidence of Austria’s leadership having the faults you claim it does, so you’re just speaking in ambiguous generalities and presuming they apply. You want a scapegoat, essentially, and you want to blame your political bugaboos (namely, what you identify as “PC culture”) for what happened to these girls instead of being realistic about where the blame belongs.
“Over the past few years American leaders have acted as if all people are the same…Over the past fifty years the notion that there is no right or wrong has blossomed in the west.”
These statements are complete strawmen, with no connection to reality. No one I’ve ever met believes “there is no right or wrong.” This claim is merely the conservative version of political correctness–you say it because it feels good to imagine your opponents have no moral standards, when really, some of our moral standards are just different from your own.
“Sorry, but it is wrong, according to traditional western culture, to impose your religion on others or subject them to tyrannical rule. The left resists that truth like it was small pox.”
You’re actually saying leftists don’t believe it’s wrong to force one’s religion on another person? Are you perhaps celebrating a certain holiday that falls on this day? Because that’s obviously not true.
WHO on the left has said that what ISIS is doing is OK? NO ONE. You are making things up.
“Our leaders not only avoid stating that clearly,”
Bull.
Barack Obama:
“That does not mean denying the fact that an extremist ideology has spread within some Muslim communities. This is a real problem that Muslims must confront, without excuse. Muslim leaders here and around the globe have to continue working with us to decisively and unequivocally reject the hateful ideology that groups like ISIL and al Qaeda promote; to speak out against not just acts of violence, but also those interpretations of Islam that are incompatible with the values of religious tolerance, mutual respect, and human dignity.”
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/06/politics/transcript-obama-san-bernardino-isis-address/
You’d have to live in a cave (or a well-preserved, impenetrable ideological bubble) to have somehow gone without hearing our president and pretty much every other allied world leader condemn ISIS and the terrorist threat in this and much harsher language. To suggest that Western leaders have not spoken out strongly enough against ISIS and terrorism is completely preposterous. It reveals that you’re not listening, and you’re more interested in uninformed, ignorant judgment of your political opponents than the truth.
Whatever incidental comments are made in moments like San Bernardino, they are made mush by an overall refusal to name the enemy clearly (Islamic), drawing meaningless red lines, negotiating with and financially empowering sponsors of terror, celebrating Marxist governments that imprison dissidents, and a failure to adopt a clear strategy to defeat ISIS, and effectively follow through. Comments are rendered meaningless when extreme treatment of women and homosexuals in the ME fails to incite greater outrage by leftist than a mere difference of opinion does here. Comments are rendered meaningless when the clear difference between Israel and those terrorists groups who act on behalf of Palestinians is not made clear.
Give me a break. Obama makes those statements only after being pressed. In general he has bent over backwards to make it seem like Islam has no problems and it’s radicals are mere criminals. He fails to make clear distinctions in words and deeds, in my opinion.
Leftists in general endeavor to draw moral equivalent arguments except when it comes to Christians and conservatives…we are definitely labeled as insane, racist, homophobic, intolerant, bigoted and evil at the drop of a hat. Even the PC must have an enemy. Why no labels for Islamic radicals? Why so little outrage? Where is the strong response to outrageous attacks. Obama’s comments are milktoast, bland, obligatory, and meaningless.
Tina, what you are doing is called “moving the goalposts.” It is a classic way to make one’s argument seem more reasonable than it initially was, without ever admitting that the initial argument was unreasonable. You began by claiming that American leaders, particularly leftists, never condemn ISIS. When you realized that was ridiculous, you tried to change your argument to “It doesn’t matter that they condemn them, because they are not handling the war against ISIS the way I would,” which is a completely different argument. This is an unfair tactic, and you use it a lot.
Some of what you say is also entirely untrue.
“Whatever incidental comments are made in moments like San Bernardino, they are made mush by an overall refusal to name the enemy clearly (Islamic)”
Except that Obama did call the enemy Islamic in the very excerpt I quoted:
““That does not mean denying the fact that an extremist ideology has spread within some Muslim communities. This is a real problem that Muslims must confront, without excuse. Muslim leaders here and around the globe have to continue working with us to decisively and unequivocally reject the hateful ideology that groups like ISIL and al Qaeda promote; to speak out against not just acts of violence, but also those interpretations of Islam that are incompatible with the values of religious tolerance, mutual respect, and human dignity.”
It’s true that Obama doesn’t specifically blame Islam often, and the reasons why have been made clear to you many times.
“Comments are rendered meaningless when extreme treatment of women and homosexuals in the ME fails to incite greater outrage by leftist than a mere difference of opinion does here.”
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: this is a deflection, and an entirely unreasonable argument. You expect me to take as much time expressing “outrage” over atrocities committed by radical Islamists in other countries as I do rebutting your arguments on your blog? Why? Do you think Islamic terrorists are as easy to reason with as you are? Do you think an argument between myself and a Muslim terrorist is going to be as productive as an argument between the two of us? Can you figure out that my decision to prioritize my “outrage” (and really, I haven’t expressed any in this particular conversation; I’ve been entirely civil) at your bad arguments rather than spending time talking about Islamic terrorism (which no one disputes exists, and is a huge problem) might simply be a matter of time management, and not an indication that I think you are worse than a terrorist?
I’m sure you can, because you’re not stupid; you’re simply trying to deflect. “Stop criticizing me and start criticizing ISIS,” in practice, really just means “Stop criticizing me.” It’s not a legitimate defense of an argument, it’s well-poisoning: “If you take any issue with any statement I make about Muslims or the war on terror, it means you don’t care about terrorism at all!” Try to be better than that.
“Tina, what you are doing is called “moving the goalposts.” It is a classic way to make one’s argument seem more reasonable than it initially was, without ever admitting that the initial argument was unreasonable.”
Excuse me Chris but if you look back to my original comment you will find that all of my following comments remained well within the context of my original remarks:
I have to go now but let me just say, there was nothing unreasonable in my comments, nor did I move the goal post.
“when leaders shrink from exposing the brutality of our enemy and his ultimately tyrannical goals”
That. Has. Not. Happened.
The. Drama. Overwhelms!
You can have the last word, Chris.
There’s no “drama.” You keep repeating the same false claim, which you can’t back up with any type of evidence, and which I have already disproven with a direct quote, and acting as if it hasn’t already been disproven. You always do this. You should stop doing this. But you won’t.