Posted by Tina
The LA Times reports this morning that protest turned to “rage” at a Trump rally in Orange County Thursday night. Mexican flags and dump Trump signs were the first indicators that there would be trouble. Hundreds of Trump supporters rights to assemble were denied, five police cars were badly damaged when rioters stomped on them. One police car’s window was smashed. Tires were slashed and attempt was made to overturn one vehicle. Rioters also blocked a freeway on-ramp and hurled rocks at nearby cars. Arrests were made:
By 10:15 p.m., the bedlam had largely subsided and Lt. Mark Stichter of the Orange County sheriff’s department said no major injuries were reported.
Costa Mesa police confirmed that 17 people — 10 males and seven females — were arrested on suspicion of unlawful assembly. Details on the ages and names of those arrested were not released.
The violent demonstration was underway after Trump concluded his speech before a crowd of thousands.
One of the mostly Latino protesters remarked to reporters: “I knew this was going to happen,” Lujan added. “It was going to be a riot. He deserves what he gets.”
What he may get is the presidency.
Trump made his priority clear when he spoke:
At a rally Thursday night in Orange County, CA, Donald Trump was joined on stage by Jamiel Shaw, whose son was murdered by an illegal alien in 2008, and other members of the Remembrance Project.
“They’re unbelievable, they’ve suffered,” Trump said before bringing them up on the stage. “These are great people.”
“We demand Americans first,” Shaw said. “We don’t care about illegal aliens.” The person who murdered his son was an “illegal alien on his third gun charge.”
“They all have a very similar story to tell,” Trump said. “People that shouldn’t have been here, people that should have never been allowed to come over the border and they come here like its nothing, they walk through it like its nothing,” he said as the crowd chanted “build a wall.”
“We’re going to stop it and we’re going to build a wall,” Trump promised.
If it’s good enough for this nation’s house at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, it’s good enough for America!
Rioters are idiots. Most of them don’t believe in anything, and are simply using legitimate protests as a cover to act out their own blind, incoherent rage.
Tina: “If it’s good enough for this nation’s house at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, it’s good enough for America!”
Yeah, ‘cuz that’s the same.
Except a border wall would cost a hell of a lot more than a larger fence around the White House:
“The cost of it is extraordinary; the terrain makes it impossible — it’s a great sound bite, but it’s not defensible in terms of a practical policy,” said GOP presidential candidate Jeb Bush at a town hall meeting in Denver.
According to a Government Accountability Office 2009 report, the cost to build 1 mile of fencing at the border averaged between $2.8 million and $3.9 million. But that figure may be low relative to costs for future sections of the wall. It’s based only on the first 220 miles fenced and does not include other factors, such as topography, transportation logistics in harder-to-reach areas (i.e. road-building and earth and drainage work), labor costs, land acquisition costs and surveillance equipment.
“The first miles of fencing were in the easiest” places, said Marc Rosenblum, deputy director of the U.S. Immigration Policy Program at the Migration Policy Institute. These were fencing areas in or close to cities and accessible transportation, rather than deep in deserts or mountains. Additionally, the first miles were on public lands, while completing a border wall would require the government to acquire land from private holders. The GAO estimate for one difficult section of fencing near San Diego was $16 million.
“I would build a great wall, and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me, and I’ll build them very inexpensively — I will build a great, great wall on our southern border. And I will have Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words.”
-Donald Trump, GOP candidate
One aspect of the wall debate more important than the cost is its worth. The migration expert Rosenblum said fencing in remote areas of the U.S. isn’t likely to achieve the goal of a more secure border.
“It’s not necessary to have a pedestrian fence in places where the infrastructure doesn’t support people walking toward the border,” Vitiello said in his May Senate testimony.
Border walls work in densely populated areas — such as Israel’s wall in the West Bank — where slowing down a person trying to illegally enter by five or 10 minutes can make a difference to border patrol. But when the migrant trying to enter is traveling over remote mountains and deserts for three days, using a fence to slow them down by a few minutes doesn’t have the same effect — it borders (pun intended) on the trivial, Rosenblum said.
Building a wall is a wildly impractical solution to a barely existent problem; net migration from Mexico over the past few years has been at zero, need I remind you.
Forgot the link:
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/09/this-is-what-trumps-border-wall-could-cost-us.html
CNBC is interviewing the deputy director of the U.S. Immigration Policy Program at the Migration Policy Institute…a bureaucrat who looks at this from a bureaucrats perspective. His perspective doesn’t tell us much about how Trump would actually do this or what it would actually cost. Nobody spends like the government! And no bureaucrat ever bother to think in terms of negotiating for a better price…Trump is good at that.
I imagine the people living in “remote areas” that have seen their land trashed and been shot at or killed would have a different opinion of the effectiveness of a wall.
The wall is a means to an end. The most important end is getting a handle on immigration, legal and illegal. There will be other policies and approaches and that’s what the people are responding to with Trumps boasts. We want someone to finally take this seriously and finally get serious about addressing the very real problems.
there are no guarantees in any election that candidates will be able to deliver. If we’ve learned nothing else we should have learned this. Obama promised a transparent “responsible” government and railed against government spending. The ACA was passed through intimidation and bribery behind the closed doors of Pelosi’s office. The debt was around $10 billion when he took office. By the time he leaves it will approach $20 billion…so much for promises.
“get serious”
Have you somehow failed to notice that no one worth listening to views Trump’s “build a wall and make Mexico pay for it” plan as a “serious” one?
This is “temporarily ban Muslim immigration all over again.” It doesn’t matter how many people explain the many, many, many problems with Trump’s extreme and ridiculous policy proposals, you will continue to ignore them and laughably call those proposals “serious,” in direct defiance of reality.
Here’s my wall: If an employer knowingly hires illegal aliens to undercut American workers he should be imprisoned for no less than 1 year and or a minimum fine of $10,000 per employee. If any employee of government welfare agency knowingly makes it possible for any illegal alien to receive aid, other than emergency humanitarian aid, that employee should be fired, imprisoned up to 6 mos. and fined no less than $10,000 for each offense. Any charitable agency that aids and abets illegal aliens by providing money, shelter or sustenance, other than emergency aid, shall be fined $10,000 for each individual.
There are all kinds of ways to build walls and all sorts of ways to get Mexico to pay for it! Seizing their assets to offset the cost of an illegal alien is one way. Imagine if Mexico had to cough up a couple of billion dollars to pay for their citizens that have been drawing aid in the USA. You think they would continue printing up fliers with ways for their citizens to go north and drop a baby and make the stupid gringos pay for it? I don’t think so.
Interesting proposals, Jack.
I hope you never claim to be in favor of the free market again, because I’ll be glad to remind you of this post any time you do.
Chris what do Jack’s proposals concerning the law have to do with the free market?
IF it’s okay with you that employers break this law is it okay that they break other laws…like the minimum wage or safety laws?
Our immigration laws are not being enforced, why are you not outraged?
Tina: “Chris what do Jack’s proposals concerning the law have to do with the free market?”
What does the government telling employers who they can and cannot hire have to do with the free market? That’s a serious question?
Most conservatives are not in favor of a free market. They’re in favor of capitalism. The two are not the same.
c4ss.org
As for why I’m not concerned that the law is not being enforced in this matter–it’s because the law is unenforceable. And ultimately, because I think our country is better off letting illegal immigrants work here, and I agree with the majority of economists, including those at the right-wing CATO and Mises Institutes, who believe they are net contributors to our economy.
I believe that if we actually enforced all our draconian immigration laws, it would be ridiculously costly, not worth the amount of spending it would take, and distract resources from more serious crimes.
We’ve already seen that happen in Sherrif Joe Arpaio’s office, which ignored over 400 sex crimes so that Joe could look tough by rounding up illegals and splitting up families.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/12/08/143355817/arizona-sheriff-joe-arpaio-under-fire-for-mishandled-sex-crime-cases
We have real problems in this country that need to be addressed. Illegal immigrants are a scapegoat. They’re a target for poor, uneducated whites who were promised better lives than what they have, and who don’t feel psychologically comfortable blaming rich white people for their community’s problems, because they think they will some day *be* rich white people. But illegal immigrants aren’t taking jobs; corporate outsourcing is doing that.
It’s really the most transparent manipulation ever. Quit falling for it.
The protesters have convinced me I need to vote for Trump. I am sick and tired of seeing Mexican citizens attacking our police officers, burning our flag, waving the flag of Mexico in our face and acting like a – holes on the 5 o’clock news. No doubt many hundreds of thousands of votes for Trump were won by the actions of these lawless idiots.
They must be idiots too, because nothing will ever convince Americans to support deportation of illegal aliens and secure the border faster than a gang of illegal aliens attacking our citizens, destroying property, and getting in our face trying to intimidate us! We’re not intimidated, but we’re getting really angry.
Now Jack, I think if we are being honest with ourselves we realize this will only get worse. The Internet betting sites have a good track record of predicting elections and Hillary is the heavy favorite.
And that’s no surprise. Hillary is the chosen one. The powers that be will make sure of it. They hate Trump.
So I suggest we all come to terms with the fact that we will be facing eight long years of Hillary, and I also suggest we all learn to speak Mexican. Comprende?
(And before all the liberals who troll this blog go postal I mean the Mexican Spanish dialect. And if you really want to be safe you might want to get some La Raza bling.)
And it’s a deep seething anger, Jack. the kind born of injustice. The kind born of a people that have extended their hand in generosity and are now being kicked for it.
It’s time Mexico stepped up with policy that creates a thriving economy and good jobs for the Mexican people. It’s also time Americans got wise and stopped using the drugs that create so much death and add to the corruption in the Mexican government. Incentives and policy can change how people behave. We need better policy and better incentives.
One more point, Chris, with tongue firmly planted in cheek…I thought lefties loved infrastructure spending! Or is it only good when it’s done by a lefty president?
Building a useless wall between our country and Mexico at a time when there is no net immigration isn’t “infrastructure spending.” Holy crap, what a stupid thing to say.
There’s no need for a wall with the surveillance technology available today: drones, blimps, satellites, automated sensors, cameras, etc. It can be done with current technology and no wall but there is no WILL.
Bob, we gotta build the will before we can build the wall. It’s coming…slowly, but its coming.
Bob has a point. I’m not particularly convinced that we need more border security than we have, but even if I conceded that we do, there are far cheaper and more efficient ways to do so than building a wall.
Jack, the wall is *not* coming, and neither is the will. The only groups where the call for a wall is growing are a) elderly whites, and b) the disaffected youth that have joined with Trump and the “alt right,” which is allied with white supremacists. Younger Republican voters are much more on Rubio’s level when it comes to immigration.
This is all a bunch of hysterics over nothing. There are so many bigger problems than illegal immigration. It is ridiculous we spend so much time and energy trying to stop people from coming here.
America is a land of welcoming, not walls. My generation will keep it that way, and we’re not going to let yours ruin the promise of America with Trump-style bigotry.
Notice how Chris always sees himself as within the majority and how absolutely perfect they are? What egotistical nonsense!
Hillary and Trump are in a dead heat according to some polls. See also here
Both Democrats and Republicans always need the squishy middle to win an election.
One could just as easily say that Hillary “only” has the support of aging feminists, ignorant youths, and minorities that she panders to, even changing her voice to sound black when speaking to blacks.
What we need is an administration that’s willing to enforce our laws, that discourages illegal entry and encourages legal entry, and that supports the men and women on the borders trying to do their jobs. What we need is an administration that respects the people in border states and acknowledges the dangers they face from drug an human traffickers and criminals. What we need is an administration that starts to demand more of Mexico in terms of caring for it’s own people.
The wall is more than wood, mortar and bricks, or wire…it is an attitude, a way of thinking about American sovereignty and protecting the rights of Americans.
Well that’s one opinion but it may be old news and it may be based on bogus accounting.
Flow of Illegal immigrant children into US expected to rise in 2016
Your opinion may also be based on figures designed to deceive. In 2014 it was reported that 90% of illegals skip immigration court appearances; 135,000 will go missing. Are they counted?
More here and here.
Obama has not been a responsible administration in terms of immigration or protecting the American people. ANY form of wall building, be it electronic, actual structures, better surveillance methods, or simple enforcement will be an improvement.
Rush explains why the GOP hates Cruz and the media loves Trump.
Why They All Hate Ted Cruz So Much:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2016/04/29/why_they_all_hate_ted_cruz_so_much
“They all have a very similar story to tell,” Trump said. “People that shouldn’t have been here, people that should have never been allowed to come over the border and they come here like its nothing, they walk through it like its nothing,” he said.
Don’t you see the people who rule us want exactly this? Ask yourself why we have hundreds and hundreds of military bases across the world, spend the most money on defense of any country in the world yet we don’t even have secure borders? A tiny fraction of these resources could secure the border overnight, but that is not what the powers that be want. And they sure don’t give a rat’s @ss if some illegal robs or kills you.
OMG someone thinks “Rush” is legit? Than you all deserve HRC
Sheeple
Wake Up
Media is all crap this country will go down from media propaganda
Again Wake up!
When the only choice is clinton……? GOP is all wack a noodle?
Welcome to fascism
end this party crap….. I will not vote for Hillary, and no gop either
Why?
Because I do not support corporate owned globalism
Instead we should put our faith and trust in someone like you, Dewey? You don’t even know what fascism is…and so, you support one!
Hint: You win no points here by pretending to be smarter and more informed than anyone else.
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/13/shes_baldly_lying_dana_frank_responds
Interesting Dewey.
Excerpted from your link:
As Democrats always do, they supported the Marxists that overthrew the democratically elected government.
Now, three things should be noted:
1. Post Scripts was on top of this story as it was enfolding.
2. Rush Limbaugh was on top of the story at the time.
3. How many of the children coming to America from Central America are a result of instability caused by the the Hillary/Obama backed coup? See NYT
Seems this pair is very good at creating chaos and driving people from their homes!
Chris: “What does the government telling employers who they can and cannot hire…”
that’s not what I asked. But the truth is, they already have…it’s illegal to hire people who are in the country illegally.
Companies are required to inform the government of persons attempting to hire on and provide the government with 3 forms of ID. The law is not enforced. Jack was suggesting stricter consequences but if the law is not enforced stricter punishments are meaningless.
I was asking what this legal question has to do with free markets?
“Most conservatives are not in favor of a free market. They’re in favor of capitalism. The two are not the same. ”
The two are not the same, but they are more closely related than the socialist model of government power and control of the market that socialists prefer.
Now I have a small problem with these definitions because the words “for profit” are only used in one of them, an attempt, I guess, to make free market seem good and capitalism bad. But in any agreement a need is met through some process. In the free market model above profit is still a consideration for the parties involved. The farmer cannot plant for next year without it. The weaver can’t buy new wool without it. The hauler will not have work if farmers and weavers have no goods to sent to market next year. You bet they look to make a profit. (Look at the profits required to grow organic food.)
The limited roll government should play is making sure the market remains free and within legal parameters. The judicial branch settles disputes.
Socialism is about government profiting from the fruits of our labors. By nature it creates monopolies, destroys small business, and destroys the entrepreneurial spirit. We end up with a bloated expensive government and being at the effect of a few big businesses.