by Jack
Breaking news: Mass shooting – Orlando, Fl. Around 2 a.m. a single well armed shooter slipped into a gay night club and open fire.
At least 50 people were shot and killed and over 50 were injured. Officials warned that a lengthy investigation was ahead. Police are still baffled why this happened. Therefore, nobody should call this a terrorist act. No conclusions should be inferred about the motive, unless you wish to speculated about the need for more gun laws or gun confiscation, then it would be fine.
One shooter with two guns did all this killing, but it could have been much worse. Fortunately, none of the victims were armed, imagine what could have happened if 3 or 4 of the people in that bar had been armed! All those bullets flying around, we surely would have had even more killed.
The shooter was an [alleged], Muslim male, Omar Saddiqui Mateen, age 29, a U.S. citizen born to Afghanistan immigrant parents..allegedly! No one should draw any conclusions from his name, his past, his internet surfing or his religious affiliation, especially the latter. The fact the shooter drove two hours to a gay night club and killed gay people could mean anything. It could be just a random act of gun violence by a mentally ill person without any motive whatsoever.
Please feel free to assume that a large Muslim population within the USA posses absolutely no threat to anyone and that the State Dept. vetting of Muslim immigrants coming from the middle east is a virtual guarantee of your safety. What should be of concern now is, “gun violence” and the horrible fact that too many guns are legally in the hands of American citizens. This has too end. It’s time to surrender your guns, so you will be safe. If will save one child isn’t it worth it?
It is of no value to think that this shooter fit the typical Muslim terrorist profile that it is think that Muslims around the world routinely slaughter gays, especially in the middle east, because Allah wills it. Forget that, that would be bigoted thinking, so don’t go there! Again, the main point and the only point you should concern yourself with is, guns are bad they cause gun violence. Guns kill people, get it? Without guns the world would be a safer place, just ask Moveon.org.
The questions we must consider now is, was the shooter a Trump supporter and did Trump’s rhetoric inspire this shooting? It would be ok to assume so. And was the shooter a registered republican? Did Talk Radio inspire him to do these killings? And the really big question is, how is it that American people can obtain guns with a background check and register them legally like this shooter? This seems to be a gaping loop hole in the system. Doesn’t this shooting make you want to turn in your neighbors for owning guns? It should, because owning guns is bad and you’re a bad person if you own a gun.
Vote for Hillary, she knows how to fix gun violence and she knows how to design a darn good questionnaire to vet all future immigrants to assure our safety.
PS The FBI had two tips at two different times that the shooter could be headed for terrorism. He was also a known affiliate of a suicide bomber. The FBI took no action, but did file well written reports detailing the tips from concerned co-workers. Finally, it was the shooter that called 911 on himself minutes before the attack, details of that call are yet to be released. A police spokesperson said there was no way they could have known what this shooters intentions were.
Much good info here—
http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2016/06/lessons-to-be-learned-from-orlando.html
From your link, RHT:
“If you allow yourself to be disarmed, the consequences are on your own head…If your choice to be disarmed was voluntary…then I have little sympathy for you. You made your bed; now you have to lie on it, and you can’t blame anyone else if you don’t find it comfortable or safe.”
Jesus Christ, what an asshole. Who thinks like this? So if someone doesn’t feel comfortable carrying a gun everywhere, it’s their fault if they become the victim of a terrorist attack, and the writer feels “little sympathy” for them? That’s monstrous. And it’s totally removed from reality. I have plenty of respect for people who choose to be armed (provided they have a permit for open or concealed carry; no, the second amendment does not guarantee the right to carry weapons *in public* without a permit), but not every person is well trained or comfortable enough with weapons to make that choice for themselves, and there is nothing wrong with either choice.
The writer also apparently feels that we live in a society where one must carry a gun at all times or risk being killed, which is simply paranoid. The writer bases this on the claim that murder is “on the rise,” which is patently false:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/09/donald-trump/donald-trump-said-crime-rising-its-not-and-hasnt-b/
This event was a tragedy. I would want to know more about how the perpetrator obtained his gun before blaming our gun laws (or lack thereof); I don’t know whether he obtained his gun legally or illegally and I’m not about to jump on a bandwagon without more information. But blaming the victims for not fighting back or being armed–which is exactly what that author does–is disgusting. And you think it’s “good information?” You should know better, RHT.
All right, all right … maybe you have a point … here and there.
But that was a excellent exercise for you. This stuff is not all black and white, and it is a good thing to put yourself on the other side, even facetiously.
Now consider this, the off-duty working security was also armed and, seemingly, made the situation worse. It may change, but what we’re hearing first is that the gunman was leaving the club. The armed security drove him back into the club to kill more people.
Maybe it couldn’t have worked out any other way. And I probably shouldn’t have brought it up, because I’m sure the officer is truly devastated. I’m just suggesting that universal armament ain’t no bleeding panacea.
Oh, and we have to quit killing these people outright, complying with their desire for martyrdom. Surgical precision over blunder-busting should be the goal.
I confess; I added the picture to this article. I realize this heinous act is racial profiling and has no place in efforts to determine a suspect or cause. Jacks right, evil Republicans on radio, at Trump rallies, and in the Tea Party movement are responsible for this act of post-work-place violence.
PC be damned. Watch this. I’m sick and tired of hearing about murders of our LBGT community members and others for their beliefs and life-styles.
Moderate’ Islamists Admit: ‘Radical’ Islam IS Islam:
“Here’s a fun twist. You know how the greatest appeasers of Islam are none other than our leftist apologists (read Dear Liberals: Your Hypocrisy on Islam is Most Staggering of All…) and their flock of sheep on social media, who greet their mornings with cries of “Not all Muslims are terrorists,” or “Not all Muslims are bad guys,” or “Not all Muslims want to kill the gays or subjugate the women!” Well brace yourselves for irony so rich, it’ll give you gout.
Watch mainstream Muslims reject the leftists talking points of “Not all Muslims are ____”
http://louderwithcrowder.com/moderate-islamists-admit-radical-islam-is-islam/#ixzz4BOUFmLJY
Peggy, you can’t just show one video of one meeting of Muslims and claim those people speak for all Muslims, just because they say they do. My Muslim friends are all outspoken feminists who have marched for gay rights; if we want to support reform within Islam, which is crucially needed, these are the voices we should be highlighted, not the radicals who already have too much power.
That being said, I’d be curious what the reaction would be if a Christian pastor got up in front of his flock and started asking similar questions. Would some Christians be wary of saying “no” when asked if they believe the Bible’s suggested punishment for homosexuality was correct? Now of course it’s true that the world at large faces a much bigger threat from Islamic terrorism than Christian terrorism, but it’s also true that we don’t know if any of the people in your video are terrorists or support terrorists, even if their words are inflammatory. I’ve heard Christian pastors say that gays should get the death penalty and that this is Biblically mandated, but they don’t act on it, and my bet is neither would most of the Muslims in that video. So the situation is more complex than you make it seem.
I think it is obvious that the perpetrator in this instance was motivated by his hatred of gays which he learned from the extremist branch of his religion. But the root cause is bigotry, which can be justified by any religion; it just so happens that the radicals within Islam have developed a reach and an influence greater than that of the radicals within any other religion. We should fight bigotry wherever it shows its face–whether that bigotry be against gays, Muslims, Christians or anyone else.
Chris, I never said it speaks for all Muslims. So, stop referring that I did. What I did post was a Muslim asking other Muslims questions and their responses. I’ve stated before on PS that I’m a supporter of Zuhdi Jasser and was an advocate for the release of our Muslim marine Amir Hekmati who was taken hostage when he went to visit his sick mom in Iran. I will support any person of faith who supports our Constitution first and foremost over any other laws, faith based or not.
You really need to stop playing hall monitor by trying to put words not spoken nor intended by me and others as our beliefs when they are clearly yours.
Peggy, the guy behind the register in the Seven-Eleven today looked really worried, so how about you tone it down a little.
Peggy, Libby referred to a single guy who works at her 7-11. That’s not bigoted, though the comment does play on a stereotype by assuming we’d know she was talking about a Middle Eastern or Muslim man without directly saying so. (Since you DID know that’s what she was talking about, she was right.) Still, the main thrust of her comment is *empathy* for the man, whom she implies is scared of retaliation against his community, so I see it as flawed and stereotypical, but not bigoted.
I’d be curious about your response to Jack’s baseless claim that 75% of Muslim men beat their wives. That seems much worse than Libby’s harmless stereotype about 7/11 cashiers, but I have not yet seen any of the conservative posters call this made-up smear “bigoted.” What do you think?
Peggy, the ethnicity of the folk at your Seven-Eleven is beside the point. It is an evasion, and a feeble one.
Yesterday’s rampage on this site was a very depressing reminder that, while you can’t be motivated to seize up the pitchforks in your own interest, you’re quite happy to vociferate against anybody else, like the cashier at my Seven-Eleven.
And I was just suggesting that you should knock it off.
Peggy, you quoted this:
Here’s a fun twist. You know how the greatest appeasers of Islam are none other than our leftist apologists (read Dear Liberals: Your Hypocrisy on Islam is Most Staggering of All…) and their flock of sheep on social media, who greet their mornings with cries of “Not all Muslims are terrorists,” or “Not all Muslims are bad guys,” or “Not all Muslims want to kill the gays or subjugate the women!” Well brace yourselves for irony so rich, it’ll give you gout.
Watch mainstream Muslims reject the leftists talking points of “Not all Muslims are ____”
.If the speaker doesn’t believe that all Muslims are bad, why are they mocking liberals for saying otherwise, and claiming that the video exposes the “irony” of such claims?
I understand you did not write the quoted portion, but you cited it approvingly, and without critique. It’s not “playing hall monitor” to point out the bigoted attitudes of statements you choose to promote. And it’s not “putting words in someone’s mouth” to understand and identify the clear implication of their words.
I believe you when you say you support peaceful Muslims. But the video you shared, and the contemptuous message you shared with it, are not supportive. Your intentions and actions are not matching up, which is creating the tension between what you think you are saying and what is actually coming across to others. Work on that.
Libby, you’re a bigot. The guys and gals at my local Seven-Eleven are blacks and Hispanics. How about you wake up and become more tolerant of others who do not agree with you?
From Ted Cruz, who I agree with.
U.S. Senator Ted Cruz Addresses Florida Terrorist Attack:
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/06/12/u-s-senator-ted-cruz-addresses-florida-terrorist-attack/
A bit hypocritical of Cruz, don’t you think?
Republican Candidates Attend Rally Where Pastor Advocates “Death Penalty” for Gay People
https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-candidates-attend-rally-where-014821801.html?ref=gs
Ok, that was unfair. A Cruz spokesman did later condemn the pastor’s rhetoric, and said it was a mistake to go. And I’m sure Cruz doesn’t wish violence on anyone.
Still, it’s a bit hard to watch all these anti-gay politicians express shock and horror at this mass killing, when they’ve spent the last decade telling Americans that gays pose a serious threat to their families and marriages, have spent the past year fearmongering about trans people using bathrooms, and have almost never spoke out against anti-gay violence. Especially when much of their condemnation of the killing today has been laced with bigoted fearmongering against *another* minority group.
Expressing an opinion about the politics of activist gays does not translate to hatred or bigotry for the people who are gay. You don’t seem capable of making that distinction. You also don’t seem to realize you have bigotries of your own. That’s why you come to this post with a giant chip on your shoulder.
Self expression is not “fearmongering” Chris. That’s another of those words liberals use to dismiss people with differing opinions. It’s meant to force silence and compliance. We must all agree or be ousted and labeled. The people here aren’t willing to play that stupid game.
You are the worst kind of fool, trapped in that PC bubble and completely unable to respond like an adult to a real threat in the real world. It would not matter what “group” this was, the response would and should be the same.
Tina: “Expressing an opinion about the politics of activist gays does not translate to hatred or bigotry for the people who are gay.”
What a complete non-sequitur. The “opinion” I pointed to had absolutely nothing to do with “activist gays.” The opinion was that gay people–all gay people–should be put to death. Are you saying simply being gay is being an “activist” gay? If not, what are you saying? I can’t tell, because your reply had no relationship to my comment.
“You also don’t seem to realize you have bigotries of your own.”
Oh, but I do. That’s the difference between us: I am capable of realizing my bigotry and takig steps to ameliorate it. I also don’t advocate for using the government to deny people their civil rights just because of my prejudices.
“Self expression is not “fearmongering” Chris.”
Again: what are you talking about? Be specific. You keep using weasel words like “self-expression” and “opinions.” What opinions are you referring to? The opinion that transwomen should have to use men’s restrooms, putting them at risk of being assaulted and murdered? The opinion that trans men should have to use women’s restrooms, thus making everyone uncomfortable? The opinion that you should get to decide who can marry whom based on their genders? You’re free to have and express these opinions; literally no one is stopping you! But you are not free from criticism. You are not free from being confronted with the reality that these opinions are stupid, they are illogical, they are ugly, they are bigoted, and when taken to their extreme, they get people killed.
“We must all agree or be ousted and labeled.”
You are perfectly willing to oust and label people, not just for disagreeing with you, but for who they are. You voted to oust gay couples who were already legally married from the institution because you disagreed with their choice. Thousands of people were declared no longer married because of you. You want to oust peaceful Muslim immigrants from America. You want to separate families. You want to oust trans people from using the bathroom they feel safe in–and yes, they face more danger in those spaces than you do and probably more than you will ever dream of.
So don’t pretend that you are being victimized because others stand up against your bullying of them.
Correction Jack
Orlando Police were calling it an act of Terror early this morn. By this afternoon they said it was domestic terrorism. Later a 911 call made by Omar before shooting praising leader ISIS was reported.
next ISIS took credit however there’s no indication that Mateen was in touch with terrorists overseas or that the attack was directed by someone else
ISIS may just be playing off reports.
His crazy father was saying he saw 2 guys kiss in Miami and that upset him but the father is quite the character for starters. But I forget the name of biz but father acts like some sudo president of Afghanistan.
Will be quite the story. largest mass Murder in History of US. We need to stay factual and wait.
It is Ramadan. A Time of Peace. So let’s not play into ISIS fearmongering while taking this very seriously.
Stop the Hate that is what ISIS wants. They are extremists exploiting a religion. We are responsible for their rise. bar None.
Ted Cruz needs to stay out of this we have had enough of his crap. Give Americans a break for once people are dead.
They were not Gays, They were Teachers, Police officers, and other PEOPLE>
“Stop the Hate that is what ISIS wants.”
First of all this article was not hateful it was satire pointed mostly at the weak politically correct response of the last eight years and more on the left and in the Obama administration.
“…that is what ISIS wants.”
What evidence is there that ISIS “wants” us to hate? If anything they are amused and emboldened by our weakness and our sel-loathing PC tip-toeing. This is an organization that blows people to bits, sets people on fire, and crucifies people. They want us to cower and hide. They love that we fight with each other. Do not confuse strong resolve to END this enemy for hate; do not confuse the desire to END these monsters with bigotry.
Ted Cruz is an American citizen and US Senator you jerk. He has every right to speak.
Additional information:
According to Zero Hedge:
More Zero Hedge: “He was a registered democrat (^ Bob) with a security officer and firearms license. According to California Rep. Adam Schiff, Mateen ‘made a pledge of allegiance to ISIS.‘”
Daily Mail:
Tina: “What evidence is there that ISIS “wants” us to hate?”
For someone who claims to take the threat of ISIS so much more “seriously” than the rest of us, you haven’t even bothered to do the most basic research about this group’s goals. Google “ISIS gray zone.” ISIS has been very clear about its desire to radicalize moderate Muslims by spreading fear of persecution and hostility in the West. Your “let’s ban Muslim immigrants (temporarily!)” proposal helps them do just that.
From the Washington Post:
If Muslim refugees come to Europe and are welcomed, it deeply undercuts the Islamic State’s legitimacy. Aaron Zelin, a fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, has helpfully catalogued some of the Islamic State’s messages on the refugees pouring into Europe from the Middle East. The messages give the impression of deep discomfort and even jealousy that the Muslim population the Islamic State so covets for its self-proclaimed “caliphate” would rather live in “infidel” Western lands.
“Would You Exchange What Is Better For What Is Less?” is the title of one video message. It sounds more than a little like a note from a jilted ex.
Writing in The Post’s opinion pages this weekend, counterterrorism analyst Harleen Gambhir said the Islamic State had deliberately “set a trap” for Europe with the Paris attacks:
The strategy is explicit. The Islamic State explained after the January attacks on Charlie Hebdo magazine that such attacks “compel the Crusaders to actively destroy the grayzone themselves. . . . Muslims in the West will quickly find themselves between one of two choices, they either apostatize . . . or they [emigrate] to the Islamic State and thereby escape persecution from the Crusader governments and citizens.” The group calculates that a small number of attackers can profoundly shift the way that European society views its 44 million Muslim members and, as a result, the way European Muslims view themselves. Through this provocation, it seeks to set conditions for an apocalyptic war with the West.
Some have suggested that the Islamic State deliberately sent someone along this route to help sow discord. Given the availability of fake Syrian passports in Turkey and other places, it is quite reasonable to presume that the passport found near the body of one of the Paris bombers was planted there to further inflame a tense Europe — an idea strengthened by reports that a different man was found traveling with the same passport in Serbia.
…What seems almost certain is that the Islamic State wants you to equate refugees with terrorists. In turn, it wants refugees to equate the West with prejudice against Muslims and foreigners.
[What Americans thought of Jewish refugees on the eve of World War II]
The reality is that most of these refugees are already receiving a pretty rough welcome in the West. Syrian refugees who arrive in the United States face remarkable scrutiny from multiple government agencies, including the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center, the State Department, the Department of Homeland Security, the National Counterterrorism Center and the Defense Department. The screening process can take years, leaving legitimate refugees in limbo. It’s worth remembering that making that welcome worse may be exactly what the Islamic State wants.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/16/the-islamic-state-wants-you-to-hate-refugees/
Stop giving ISIS what they want.
BTW I forgot to mention he was married. When his wife’s family found out about his abuse they snuck her out of house leaving her things. He beat her for stupid reasons.
Mental Illness may play into this
We will get real facts soon bizarre case for sure.
Other facts:
ATF: Gunman Legally Purchased the Firearms Within the Last Week
he was a follower of ISIS propaganda and referenced the Tsarnaev brothers, who carried out the Boston Marathon bombings in 2013, at the scene of the shooting.
filed a petition for a name change in 2006 from Omar Mir Seddique to Omar Mir Seddique Mateen.
associate of science degree in criminal justice technology in 2006.
The guy was 29 years old and a security guard, making what? … $26K. There wasn’t gonna be any little pink house for him.
The powers better wise the eff up.
Politically Correct title may be
Alleged shooter works for Global Security Firm & calls 911 to give full name & ISIS pledge before attack
The murderer was a Muslim AND a Democrat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxvqSFRX18U
Dewster, hate to break it to you but you can learn how to beat your wife from some of the highest ranking Muslim Holy men in the world. So, maybe they are mentally ill too, seems like if that is your litmus then 75% of the worlds Muslims are mentally ill. “There’s a whole lotta wife beatin goin on around here.”
Next, WHY are people in high places, like our president, afraid to say the words, “Muslim Terrorist?” Please explain. I’ve heard him say since terrorism isn’t part of Islam a real Muslim could not be a terrorist. This Pollyanna kind of thinking and it’s stupid to boot.
Indeed. And it can get you killed. On that French train, Chris Norman had it right—“My position was, I’m not going to be the guy who dies sitting down. If you’re going to die, try to do something about it.”
I wonder how many people were there in the Pulse club when the shooting started. How many tables. Chairs. Wine bottles. Beer mugs. Anything that could be used as an improvised weapon or projectile. A determined counter attack could have saved a lot of lives.
One of the many things that gets me about you guys is your seeming inability to put yourselves there. You’re all gun nuts. How many seconds does it take to mow down a hundred people with an AR-15?
Seconds. There ain’t no time to throw nothin’.
What I cannot imagine, and badly want to hear about, is the two and a half hours between the shooting and the capture. As I understand it, he did not shoot anybody during those hours. Why not? He must have known how it would end when he started. What was the point of holeing up in the bathroom? If you’re out to make carnage, why do you not make maximum carnage until they take you out.
Same thing with San Bernadino. They show up. They shoot people, and then they just stop. They had lots of ammo left. They had, easily, twenty minutes, half an hour, before the cops arrived to kill them. But they just stopped, and quite literally wandered off, with no clear idea what to do next. I don’t get it.
Likely, I’m being too cerebral about this. But if we keep killing them off, we’ll never find out!
WHY DOES OBAMA AND HIS STAFF STILL NOT REFER TO THIS MURDEROUS RAMPAGE AS AN ACT OF MUSLIM TERRORISM. The freakin shooter, a religious Muslim who prayed and attended Mosque services regularly, calls 911 and swears allegiance to ISIS and gives a shout out to the Tszarniev brothers (Boston fame), then kills gay people. WTF more evidence do you need? Denial is not going to improve this situation.
Jack, why don’t you ask why Bush also stopped referring to Muslim terrorists as Muslim terrorists? Or, instead of asking really obvious questions, you could Google it. Or, you could use your memory, which can’t be that bad; I’ve answered this question for you more times than I can count, citing foreign policy experts who have explained the need for Muslim cooperation, the legitimacy bestowed upon such groups when they are described as Muslim and Islamic, and on and on and on. Why won’t you listen to these people? Why do you think your strategy would be better than theirs?
Then there is this:
“Dewster, hate to break it to you but you can learn how to beat your wife from some of the highest ranking Muslim Holy men in the world. So, maybe they are mentally ill too, seems like if that is your litmus then 75% of the worlds Muslims are mentally ill. “There’s a whole lotta wife beatin goin on around here.”
Please back up your extraordinary claim that 75% of the world’s Muslims beat their wives. If you cannot back up this claim with evidence, please concede that your claim was erroneous and bigoted.
Jack doesn’t want a reasoned response; he wants vengeance. He wants to sit there being visceral, so he don’t have to think … think about how easy it was for these kids to get their hands on all that armament.