by Jack
Trump is finding out that due to past liberal employment practices, you must spell out every little thing, because today’s government bureaucrat hasn’t used their brain in so long, they forgot how.
Take this case for example. One that should never have happened, but it did. In a lawsuit filed in federal court in Brooklyn, New York, two Iraqi men are challenging the directive of blocking immigration from certain terrorist occupied countries on constitutional grounds. The suit says their connections to the American forces made them targets in their home country and the pair had valid visas to enter the United States. (A Visa is only valid until the USA says it’s not valid)
The lawsuit, which seeks to block Trump’s common sense vetting order on behalf of a class of visa-holders and asylum-seekers, highlights some of the legal obstacles facing the new administration as it tries to carry out the directive.
So now we have the first volley, in a potential barrage of legal challenges to President Donald Trump’s new restrictions on immigration because nobody short of the President was willing to use their (common sense) discretion. So was this really just a case of chicken CYA?
C’mon, these are not the guys we want to keep out of America, but unfortunately they were snared for reasons I can’t fathom.
I hope you’re prepared for a lot more of these “mistakes.” Maybe when you find out that the money for the wall is going to come out of your pocket, or when you can’t get insurance because the GOP has no replacement for Obamacare, you’ll start laying the responsibility where it belongs.
This wasn’t the result of government bureaucrats, this was the predictable result of the executive order Trump signed. He had the responsibility to ensure that our allies weren’t betrayed, and he failed at that duty, because he doesn’t know what he’s doing.
Keep in mind that there are other state sponsors of terrorism that are not on that list, even though they’ve killed many more Americans. Why aren’t immigrants from the UAE, Saudi Arabia, or Egypt banned? Because Trump has business interests there. None of the countries on the list have business interests with Trump. If you think this is a coincidence but were obsessed with the Clinton Foundation, then you never actually cared about corruption or conflicts of interests.
We’ve already alienated our allies, gotten ourselves condemned by the UN and broken our promises to the Muslims who’ve helped us fight Al Qaeda and ISIS, all on Holocaust Remembrance Day, no less! A day when many reflect on how things could have gone differently had we opened our borders to Jewish refugees, instead of giving in to the fear that Nazi spies could be among them. How many could we have saved? We say “never again,” but we are letting it happen again now. There is nothing “sensible” about turning our backs on the people being killed because we are too scared of the remote possibility that some of them might be terrorists. We have the best vetting system in the world, and no refugee has committed an act of terrorism on US soil since 1975.
No one who understands national security, on either side of the aisle, supported Trump’s Muslim ban when he first floated it because they knew it would weaken alliances, make us an object of hatred in the world and strengthen ISIS. Two out of those three things have already happened on the first day. Are you going to act surprised and blame others when the third one happens? Or will you admit that Trump was not qualified for this position and start opposing his stupid, self-destructive policies?
Gee Dewey, don’t you think 2 years is a bit too long? Suppose there was killer loose in your neighborhood, would you want the cops to take 2 years to study the problem? And what is happening during this 2 years of vetting? Don’t you think its really just a lot of paper shuffling? My guess in those two years there is about 2 minutes of real substance the rest is just worthless paperwork. By the way I am talking about vetting for citizenship once they arrive here. A visa… pfffft, anyone could concievably get a VISA, its not the same vetting process. The one that counts is for citizenship.
I’m not Dewey, and you don’t know what you’re talking about. The refugees aren’t allowed in the country before they’re completely vetted, so your “killer lose in your neighborhood for two years” comparison makes no sense. It takes an average of two years for a Syrian refugee to be vetted, THEN they’re let in.
Bryan you’ve made a lot of assumptions. One is that when a policy change is made all things will run smoothly. If you want to look at a change in policy that has been a total disaster you might look at the roll out of Obamacare. Do you recall the mess with the computers during the first several months that prevented people from enrolling? Do you recall how aspects of the plan had to be delayed, changed or altered?
Do you recall the lies that were told to sell it or the strong arm tactics Pelosi and Reid used to get the votes to pass it?
Of course you don’t remember any of it, but it happened. And this wasn’t the only thing the former president, his “czars” and the Dem leaders in Congress did that created chaos, destruction, and disdain for America and across the world.
Obama was not qualified by any measure to be president. His colossal record of failure over eight years shows it.
Obama broke our commitment to the Muslims who long for freedom and who “helped us fight Al Qaeda” long before there ever was an ISIS. His failures are directly responsible for the rise and spread of ISIS and for the refugee problems encountered in Europe and in the US. Our allies were treated badly by Obama and at the same time he bent over backwards to help sponsors of terrorism. The “deal” with Iran funds terrorism and strengthens and lends credence to their radical tyrannical cause. Likewise his last minute cash gift of $221 million to the Palestinian Authority, a group that teaches Palestinian children to hate Jews and Americans and uses them as human bombs in their terrorist activities.
Trump has been in office for a week and already you’re sure that he’s “not qualified.” This makes you sound like a sore loser rather than an informed, sensible observer! Your haughty attitude doesn’t help your position much either. Try mending your own failures, they’re badly in need of attention. A bit of humble atonement might be a good place to start.
I did not make this a left or right issue, and you have no idea what my position is on Obama. Many Republicans have condemned Trump’s order and his lack of qualifications. But of course since you have no counter-argument to anything I said, you try and change the subject to “blame Obama.” Will that be the new “blame Bush?”
Bullpucky
Bottom Line is we have a very strong vetting system. Takes 2 yrs.
The truth is that the small mind of 45 does not understand it. He has said so many times. “Until We can Understand” ? Hello We know what is going on.
We are being put in danger by the inability of conservatives to comprehend. Punished by those who can not grasp things.
The Man does not understand and maybe has not have read the Constitution.
What we have now is a Bomb and Ban Policy that is playing into their hands. We bomb the crap out of a country for no good reason and then ban your people.
There is a bill to make it illegal for the USA to arm or fund any terrorist group. Will it Pass? Do you support the Bill?
We created and arm the Terrorists and now can not control them. We sell arms and cause war. America was never great.
Truth is We are being put in danger by the mean spirit of the small minded conservatives. Not our fault you do not have a clue how we vet now.
Go ahead explain the vetting Process? You have never looked you just repeat Fox and Breibart like sheeple.
You Also just insulted every Republican Federal Employee. Everything is not Red and Blue.
In the case of the bureaucracy everything is competent or incompetent. We don;t care about red and blue; we care about results and getting some bang for the billions of bucks that are spent year after year. Why so contentious and hateful?
“Spontaneous” demonstrations at JFK. Just like “spontaneous demonstrations” in dictator-led countries. . . . .
Follow the money, and you’ll find either Soros or CAIR -neither of which are good for the country!
The protests were organized in less than a day through social media. I’m attending one today. What do you mean “follow the money?” Most protesters are not paid. I’m sure not getting paid for it, I’m doing it because it’s the right thing to do. What are you doing to stop these refugees, some of whom are Christian, from being sent back?
Of course CAIR helped spread the word.
“Dictator-led countries” don’t typically like spontaneous demonstrations. Did you just call Trump a dictator?
Bryan very few Christians were included in the refugee groups Obama brought into the country despite the fact that Christians were being specifically targeted for torture and slaughter.
Also Trumps temporary ban isn’t much different from the ban Obama put in place…without opposition or protest:
Why the fake outrage? Or is it that you are only outraged selectively against a republican president? Or is it that you just enjoy being a troublemaker for the left? And if you’re not being paid by one of the hundreds of Soros sponsored foundations you might want to look into it. Anyone with your level of blind outrage is just the sort they look for to carry their subversive flag.
CAIR was named an unindicted co-conspirator by our government in a case against the terrorist group Hamas. CAIR was also declared a terrorist organization by the United Arab Emirates. The organization is duplicitous in nature and no friend to our Constitution and way of life.
Seems to me you are the one whose arrogant. You speak from a position of emotion based bias. Obama MADE this mess and is responsible for the deaths you decry and the dangers the world has witnessed since his election in ’08. Where ya been? Obama lost the peace in the Iraq war and subsequently lost a good chunk of that nation back to ISIS, which grew due to his bad policies. Early on he failed to support Iran’s Green Revolution and his Iran deal has created the foundation for a nuclear arms race in the ME. He failed again in Syria and Lybia. He scrapped a missile-defense system the Poles and the Czech Republic had agreed to house, failing our European allies and allowing Russia to advance into Crimea and the Ukraine. Obama can’t be held responsible for everything but he has made every situation worse rather than better and as the leader of our nation the buck should stop with him but nobody held him responsible the way they did previous presidents.
Assumptions that Trump and his followers are stupid, heartless and cruel are way off base. We tried it your way and the world has suffered because of it. maybe you are not as smart, or caring, as you imagine yourself to be.
No, the ban is totally different. Obama’s ban did not target green card holders, unlike Trump’s. It was narrowly targeted to Iraqi refugees for a six month time period. Trump’s ban on Syrian refugees is indefinite, though his other bans are temporary (or so he says). Obama’s ban was also in response to a specific terror plot by Iraqis who had come through the refugee system. No one from any of the countries Trump banned has been caught plotting terror in the US for the past ten years. There have been terrorist attacks and foiled plots by people from countries not on the list, however.
“Unindicted co-conspirator” means there was not enough evidence to indict them.
If you are correct that Obama made the situation in the ME worse, than we have even more of an obligation to help the refugees fleeing the crisis. The Obama administration led the US government and now it’s led by Trump. Cleaning up the mess left behind by the previous administration is always the new administration’s job. You’re saying the United States has no obligation to help refugees we created because Obama did it, not Trump? I don’t assume you’re stupid, heartless or cruel. Your own arguments are proving that.
You might want to take a look at your History book. “Spontaneous demonstrations” in dictator-led countries (like Cuba, Moscow, and certain countries prior to WWII) were prearranged in order to show “support” for the dictator to the visiting press.
“Most” protestors are not paid? http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017/01/28/george-soros-financed-groups-scheme-stop-trumps-temporary-refugee-halt-order/
And your smart-ass closing question puts you in the same category as the Liberal snowflakes who are full of PC BS.
So…Trump is prearranging protests against him? You’re not making any sense. Who is the “dictator” in your comparison, if not Trump?
Bullpucky. people act. Soros has no power on these issues. he is a pimple on a donkey’s back. We are Republicans, Democrats, Independents. We the people will not allow unconstitutional Acts by 45.
You never accept the will of the people. making up stuff does not make it true.
Truth
Last summer Bannon said he wanted the website he published to be a “platform” for white nationalists. Now he is on Trump’s NSC.
If the Muslims are angry about this, then they are being blind to the facts. Cause it’s sure not been the Catholics terrorizing the world’s western nations for the last 30 plus years! Oh, but it’s only a small fraction of Muslims doing the killing isn’t it? Guess that makes it ok? So, you have no accountability? You all just get a pass as if you are just an innocent bystander, much lik the people Muslim terrorist kill? Perhaps some of you are, but most are not because you condone or you remain silent when you should not.
We’re supposed to think that the Muslim terrorists that you have no part of just arrived on the scene as if they came from outer space. Well, I’ve got news for you, most of us in the free world don’t like your religion very much and for very good reasons. And this feeling is getting worse with every act of Islamic terrorism.
What we we see is a self deluded religion with as many faces as it needs to fool and conquer. We see a maniacal religion that breeds systematic hatred and bigotry and sanctions oppression against billions of people. What we see is murder of innocents in the name of religion on scale not witnessed since the dark ages, most often committed by theocracies run by radical Muslim tyrants, like in Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc.
To many of us, you all look like a bunch of raving lunatics bent on killing everyone who doesn’t think like you. You want acceptance, take a few hints: This is the 21st century, step into it. Quit trying to own women like property, stop your marriages of men to little girls. Quit raping little boys because its part of your culture. Your culture laced with crimes against humanity. Don’t act like barbarians in the western host nations giving you sanctuary while calling them “infidels”.
Your religion seeks to take over the world and dominate government, is it any wonder your presence has become unwelcome in many places? Is it any wonder that President Trump has limited your entry into America? Have you forgot that your religion has caused us billions of dollars in property damage and taken thousands of innocent lives on 9/11? Now of course only a small percentage of Muslim fanatics did this, but they were connected to the greater Muslim religion and you can’t deny it. They took their que right from the Koran! So, you can’t hide behind that excuse forever, there comes a time when you do bear some responsibility. Its about time for you to choose a side! You can be on the side of humanity and common decency… with all its inalienable rights or you can stay in denial and continue to be part of a backward religion that teaches bigotry and hate. You can’t deny that wide spread Wahhabi schools have kept Islamic fundamentalist mired in 10th century values.
So, I strongly suggest you put down your protest signs, get off your high horse and go look in the mirror, what you will see is not pretty.
Who the hell are you talking to, buddy? I’m not a Muslim. But if Muslims are ever forced to register in this country, as Trump has suggested, you bet your ass I will register as one.
You realize that some of the refugees being sent back today are Christians, right?
You also realize the people you’re turning your back on are fleeing exactly the oppression you say you hate? More Muslims have been killed by Muslim supremacists than anyone else.
You want to do something about the problem, or you just want to cast blame and feel superior? If you want radicals like ISIS to be defeated, help the refugees. If you just want to flail about in a rage, let them be killed. But don’t pretend to care and then do nothing.
National security experts on both sides have told you that banning refugees and others will only make the problem of radical Islam worse. Are you too full of hate to listen?
Quite a rant, Jack. Have you ever considered Prozac? You should consider something in the way of medical/psychological intervention. You got a poisonous condition.
Well said, Jack!
Ditto!
4 different judges in NY, VA, Boston, Seattle have now deemed some or all of Trump’s Executive order unlawful & unconstitutional
Unfortunately this county is in collective denial. Blame refugees but the problem is that US/UK have destroyed every muslim country for pipelines and profit.
You defend the fact the USA funds and Arms ISIS?.
Four liberal judges responding to, or acting in conjunction with, the demands of the leftist ACLU and duplicitous CAIR! Big whoop.
Trump is not doing anything more than what other presidents have done including Obama and Carter.
We are positioning to defend America and the free world. What we’ve done for the last eight years is an absolute failure…before you object, or deign to contribute, you need to point to the errors of the leftist past leadership and hold them responsible. Otherwise, you have no credibility here.
Tina the Constitution nor the Law is neither conservative or liberal.
Stop your clickbaiting.
What is scarier is Merkel had to explain the Geneva Convention to 45 on the phone. He is clueless.
Worse yet Speaker Ryan has the knowledge and experience and did not explain it to the #1 and #2, nor did any of his advisors. Oh wait he surrounded himself with people who are clueless on International Law.
This admin is far from an law and Order admin.
I suggest Ryan is using 45’s Pen to get all the prewritten orders signed and will impeach him at some point.
The USA can not be a Bomb and Ban country for the profits of the 1%. The world hates us. Rightfully so.
Get real. The world is not a Conservative battle ground against all others.
Again can you explain what is wrong with the 2 year vetting policy and/or even explain it?
I can.
Responsible people know what they are against.
The Law is the Law, PERIOD
The ACLU fights for the rights of all, including conservative Christians.
You want them to be there for you when you need them, but you aren’t willing to support them now.
Kasich was right when he used Martin Niemoller’s “First they came for…” poem in an anti-Trump ad. You could learn a lot from it.
Another fact No Muslim Syrian refugee has killed a single American in the US. But several US Christians have.
That depends on how you look at it. According to information in the Daily Caller, Obama’s “top refugee official,” Barbara Strack, “had no idea whether the Tsarnaev brothers who carried out the Boston bombing arrived in the U.S. as refugees.”
In 2013 an audit performed by Reuters found organized crime and terror recruiters in Syrian refugee camps. What makes you think these types aren’t also coming to America as refugees?
In 2015 the Obama administration’s expressed concern about refugees coming from Syria:
They insisted the vetting was “rigorous” but also had to admit that it might not be enough:
The Washington Times reported today on the intent of ISIS:
This is a national security problem and it is obvious that the former administration was not interested in eliminating the problem and keeping America, or the rest of the world, safe. This administration intends to do better…much better. We won’t know for awhile how Trump policies will play out but he IS the president and deserves the same respect that was afforded Obama, especially in the first two years.
Sore loser agitators are looking like a bunch of hypocritical fools.
“That depends on how you look at it.”
No, it does not. You can take your “alternative facts” and put ’em where the sun don’t shine, girl. You are wrong, dead wrong, and you can expect to hear a great deal about it in the months and years to come.
The ban is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. I suggest you make a decision right here right now.
Are you now against the Constitution?
we outnumber you. Do you reject Majority Rule?
They now have said all Citizens expect to be scrutinized at the airports.
We have the Stassi in Place.
We are banning Google and Apple workers from traveling?
We are holding people with proper papers in airports?
Can you even describe the 2 year vetting process? I can.
Are you denouncing the True Christian Faith? That ban is anti Christian as well.
So all that is left is an White Nationalist Party Like Hitler.
Which is it?
Define your stand on those issues
Dewey this temporary pause is not unconstitutional, despite the positions of activist leftist in the legal domain. Breitbart quotes Mark Krikorian at National Review:
The United States Constitution says nothing about unlimited immigration. An article in the NYT points to the Supreme court and precedence that dates back to 1889:
So go ahead and scream all you want. You and your cohorts will be a big nuisance but the SC is likely to back the President!
Tina , it is optics and the man has no clue what the current policy is. It is So he can understand? Bullpucky.
It is unconstitutional.
Also the governors are not happy. They did it on a Friday afternoon. Did not notify all states. Did not give instructions on how to handle it to the states. DHS is ignoring Judges orders breaking the law right now.
I realize that executive orders by a Republican are fine and dandy no matter what they say. If Obama had come in like this? You would be off on your Saul Alinsky tyranny rant.
States Rights? Oh yea that is only when race is a state issue right?
The west coast needs to leave the Union. Better yet join Canada. The Stassi and their dictator are dangerous.
Trump is certifiably suffering from narcissism. FACT. He his all points. Every world leader with the disease has a bad history.
Cut out your party politics in the name of Hate the Liberal.
BTW Giuliani wrote it with a team of lawyers hoping the word Danger replacing religion would hold. It is a Ban on Muslims that is UNCONSTITUTIONAL>
The people being held are not refugees they have proper Visa’s and papers. We arrested people with work visa’s who Boarded a Plane not not being told they were revoked? STASSI USA is a horrible country.
Either the useless Dems with McCain and Graham camps do something or it is Civil war. Only reason people are cool right now cause we see they want it to slap down M law for the new Trump Dictatorship quest for riches and gold.
Dewey you assume a lot about me and frankly you aren’t any different than many of your comrades who believe they know those they oppose.
It’s been reported that 109 people were actually detained over the weekend. The protests and the law suits are WAY over the top.
The two who supposedly were given visas because they helped us were presented as pawns in a political legal show. Nothing in the news indicated that these two were among the 109 but appear to be representative in the same fashion that Norma McCorvey became a pawn in the Roe v Wade case.
This temporary pause sends the message to the terrorists that a new commander is at the helm. Their game will not go unchallenged. This is a single act in what will be a whole new strategy to defeat the radical Islamist evil that now plagues the world. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with keeping the American people, and ultimately the world, safe. If you have a problem with that you’re nuts…you are willing to appease the enemies of freedom and compassion.
Repeating over and over again that this stupid policy, supported by no one of intelligence in either party, will “keep us safe” will not make it true. The reasons why this won’t keep us safe, but will instead alienate our allies and make ISIS stronger have been explained to you over and over again, but you won’t hear them. You just keep repeating “this will keep us safe.” I’m imagining you rocking in a corner repeating this over and over. It won’t make it true.
Many of the so-called experts who criticize Trump have been responsible for the failures of the last eight years. They failed miserably. Their work created the rise and spread of ISIS, created war and havoc across the ME, and gave us the Iran deal. I understand those Iranians launched another rocket today in violation of UN resolutions that followed the deal. Obama refused to change course or to even develop and follow through with a workable strategy. Why would anyone pay attention to those who advised him?
Why would you (Chris?) use others (that advised Bush) to make your case when all you did was criticize Bush? You have no respect for their advice!
Why would anyone listen to anything you have to say at all when you have been so wrong about so many things?
Trump won. You said it would never happen. So much for your opinion.
When the experts fail you, the solution is to find better experts. Not install people who’ve never been involved on these issues in any way.
When your heart surgeon is revealed to be bad at his job, you seek another heart surgeon. You don’t go to someone who’s never performed surgery before.
I have one question:
If this order is necessary for defense of the nation, why was Trump’s own Secretary of Defense not given any information or asked for any input on the order before Trump signed it?
Sounds like you are making a statement of fact and not asking a question. Do you seriously expect anyone to answer such a loaded and unknowable question? lol What a joker.
Well said Jack! How does Bryan (Chris?) know what The Secretary of Defense and Trump have discussed?
Two days ago an AP article, posted in Lancaster Online, revealed the following:
Sounds like Defense Secretary Mattis was consulted, was fully informed, and was onboard with the order 100%!
Why? Because he was there for the signing? This National Review article says he was not consulted:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/444399/implementation-problems-does-steve-bannon-trump-trumps-generals
I guess Mr. French expects perfection in our new president.
The order may not have been executed and rolled out as well as it could have been but it also isn’t the disaster you make it out to be. What we are witnessing is political theater.
As indicated in another comment the roll out of Obamacare, a law that deeply and disastrously affected many many Americans, was pretty horrible and the left did not have a similar fit.
The rise of ISIS is at least as bad as Bush being bogged down prior to the surge but the left had nothing to say about Obama’s inability to govern or stubborn unwillingness to “change course.” Bush did, by the way, and won that war. Obama not only lost the peace but in eight years presided over one disaster after another ending in a much more dangerous world. Foreign policy wise, where was the uproar from people like you and the advisers?
A lot of people in this country have really had it with the activist press, activist lawyers, and their activist stooges who agitate, bully, attack and destroy for political power. This uproar is just another example.
After reading the numerous Leftie rants by Bryan H. on this and other subjects, I believe he is eligible for this week’s PC BS award and will receive a statuette of Susan Rice that he can place on his desktop. Congrats.