Posted by Tina
Are you ready for healthcare doled out by a single provider with the power to increase your taxes, control your doctor, and deny you treatment you need or want?
If the answer is, “Yes,” then you are ready for socialism of the European variety, all of which evolved from the tyrannical systems of Feudalism, Fascism, and Communism. What? That’s right. Europe’s systems of government grew out of systems based in feudalism under the kings. They call it democratic socialism to make it seem palatable.
The American system of government stands apart, born of a radical idea…liberty! Self determination and responsibility! Freedom from the tyranny of European systems.
Bernie Sanders (who else?) will lead the charge as the radical elements of the Democrat Party seek to introduce a bill to replace the failing Obamacare. This has been their plan all along. They created a healthcare plan (ACA-Obamacare) they did not want and knew would fail to ultimately make the people angry enough to demand relief.
Democrats constantly describe themselves as saviors…here they come again, with lies and deceit fully in play. Remember Obamacare was sold by this same group as a plan that would make healthcare affordable. You could keep your doctor and your current insurance. Lies!
One of the arguments in favor of single payer is that big corporations will finally be put in their place. Anti-capitalists will salivate at the thought. But the reality is the government still needs a delivery system and the largest corporations will step up for survival while the smaller companies will be obliterated. BIG piles of cash will still flow from the consumer, the taxpayer, and the business owner on the corner into the pockets of the same big companies. The difference is, we will pay more for redistribution costs…the bureaucracies of government and our debt will continue to climb at mind blowing rates.
The people will not be better served. Unfortunately stooopid never looked so good to so many in this country, especially the young and inexperienced.
Excellent reporting on this by Sundance over at Conservative Treehouse
Single payer seems, for some unknown reason, to work well in others countries. The people I’ve met in Europe and our neighbor to the north were pleased with their health care systems. I know they must have conspired in some way to trick me. Maybe it works because these countries don’t spend as much as we do on their military or boarder walls. I could be wrong. By the way, I had to go to the ER at Enloe this past summer. I fell and busted a couple of ribs. The bill came to just over 20k. Two hours in the ER, an X-ray, some pain meds, and the doctor tells me what I already know…Suck it up, there’s nothing we can do. 20 grand? Our healthcare system is broken.
So how much of the 20 grand did you have to pay? Did the magical Obammycare pay it all?
Explain magical Obamacare, The ACA is a law not a healthcare policy
I’m very fortunate to have the means to pay for insurance. My payment, after insurance, was $3,000. I pay over $12,000 per year just for me. And for that I do not get to choose my doctor. The doctor must be in my provider’s program. Many treatments must also be pre-approved. And guess what…the cost is increasing. Surprise!
Bottom line: I believe health care should not be for profit. I believe I would pay less through a single payer program, thus have more disposable income to spend on items made in America. I believe my insurance is so high because health costs are outrageous. I believe health costs are outrageous because the insured pay for the uninsured. Do you have insurance or are you getting a free ride?
You would be wrong. that’s not my opinion it is the facts. Of course many of the ways you pay would be hidden and you would be helping to load tons of debt on future citizens.
OK Tina I’m wrong. A single-payer system like those in other first world countries won’t work in our United States. Our current health care system, without doubt, does not work. The affordable care act works in some ways, but is not sustainable. What inalienable right to life and the pursuit of happiness health care system would you propose? Is there any other country’s healthcare system that you would use as a model for ours?
It’s more broken than ever since Obamacare but it’s been in trouble since the advent of government intrusion in 1965.
Ouch…sorry about that recent bill. My son-in-law busted a couple of ribs last year, saw his GP, and was told there wasn’t anything to be done…the cost was much, much less. Even with X-rays!
Are you trying to manage without insurance?
Your friends in Europe and Canada are telling you the truth about their own personal experiences. It’s the same in this country for those who have Medicare and free (subsidized) Obamacare…simply lovely. Of course it depends on whether you have a serious problem. those who don’t never see the wait times or denial of care that is available in the US. And to pretend the care in Canada is somehow a lot cheaper is to deny certain realities.
Wikipedia’s numbers are old, going back to 2009 or so. But the realities remain pretty constant and the numbers, including interest payments on debt, are likely higher. The government paid only 70% of the cost of care. So the citizens paid 30% in addition to their premium costs and or the government racked up sizable debt. I imagine it’s a bit of both. In 2012 Standard and Poors warned of “credit downgrades” for all of the developed nations if they “don’t control expected increases in health-care costs as the average age of their population rises.”
And that’s the problem with government care. It blindfolds patients to the actual cost and it encourages overuse of care (Going to the doc every time you sneeze) which exacerbates the problem. Government run care is responsible for growing debt that will get worse as interest rates rise.
Healthcare by government is done on a credit card and works like a credit card works when the minimum payment is made every month. The balance due just keeps rising.
The best way to fix broken healthcare and bring the cost down is to create conditions in which those who provide must compete for your dollars and face you directly over the costs for payment. Nothing comes free. When politicians pretend to offers “free” healthcare they are simply not telling the whole truth.
Other hidden consequences can be a poor economy and high unemployment.
Well Said
Fact is we need a Healthcare system that works for the health of citizens not wall street and CEO profits.
I personally will support Singe Payer but likely Corporate Dems and Reps who are beholden to Big Pharma Donors will fail any Bill.
That Said They will all get primaried.
Yes Tina……………… So Lions Tigers and Bears! here comes the Progressives, Not the Democrats, And this is just Round One. We mean Business in our fight against Fascism.
Does it piss you off we want to expand your healthcare to all and have a single payer group? Or is that commie Socialist healthcare you get only for the chosen few?
We are willing to pay taxes for it too…..
oh
no!
“We mean Business in our fight against Fascism.”
Oh my, you’re like the court jester of fascism
Once again, fascism:
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
Bonus History: It is fitting that the name of an authoritarian political movement like Fascism, founded in 1919 by Benito Mussolini, should come from the name of a symbol of authority. The Italian name of the movement, fascismo, is derived from fascio, “bundle, (political) group,” but also refers to the movement’s emblem, the fasces, a bundle of rods bound around a projecting axe-head that was carried before an ancient Roman magistrate by an attendant as a symbol of authority and power. The name of Mussolini’s group of revolutionaries was soon used for similar nationalistic movements in other countries that sought to gain power through violence and ruthlessness, such as National Socialism.
“I personally will support Singe Payer”
Perfect typo…single payer will burn us all.
“Does it piss you off we want to expand your healthcare to all and have a single payer group?”
You’d like that wouldn’t you?
No, It makes me incredibly sad that so many of our citizens (You are a citizen, right?) are stupid enough to endorse fascism while imagining they do us all a grand favor.
“Or is that commie Socialist healthcare you get only for the chosen few”
If it is for what you call the “chosen few” you should know that the fascists of the 1930’s, 40’s, 50’s and 60’s forced it on us as a pathway to this moment in time.
“We are willing to pay taxes for it too”
Unless you’re one of the wealthy your full of it. The plan is to steal the bulk of it from the rich…you know, the job providers nd wealth creators who make the economy run.
Whether this bill ever is allowed to come to the floor for a vote is
No Tina I mean conservative fascism where you run the country as a business. Sorry but you are in the minority and quite frankly a big nanny state proponent.
There are fascist dems too
No sir, I am not in the minority. I am part of a leading edge of good Americans who happen to like the Constitution and freedom.
You probably can;t explain what you mean by “government run like a business” but I guess you could try.
You are among those who believe we can make prosperity out of thin air…no profit required. It would be funny to read how that works too IF you could describe it.
I am a proponent of smaller government and greater personal responsibility.
You are a liar.
We are willing to pay taxes for it too…..
Just like you’re willing to house all the illegal aliens, right?
Then how about letting them stay in one of your spare bedrooms?
Nailed it Joe! Good onya!!
Illegal aliens paid 13 billion in taxes. Sorry if I am not an ignorant white nationalist.
You pull that number out your arse?
Are you saying illegals pay more in taxes than they get from the gooberment?
Well, here’s 35 minutes of facts and figures about the facts of immigration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u1J6EEhkyM
You’re an ignorant communist.
62% of illegal aliens on welfare
https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/45600-youtube-62-of-illegal-immigrant-households-on-welfare/
Idiot.
Joe, you literally responded to dewey calling you a white nationalist…
…by linking to a white nationalist.
Why did you think that would be convincing?
Here are some non-racist sources proving dewey’s claim true:
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/maria-teresa-kumar/how-much-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes/
http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/
Single payer seems, for some unknown reason, to work well in others countries.
Not for this guy in Canada, Chris…er,sorry…Pete.
If not for US care he would have died.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwmr1elnxjg
LOL
Canadians like their healthcare.
Worse yet is the lack of respect for human life by cons
So in your opinion it takes government to show your compassion?
What’s wrong Dewey, can’t do it your own self?
Or…is it just that you prefer to show your compassion using other people’s money?
You also love to bear false witness. It’s not nice to lie bout people you do not know.
Then how come that dude had to come to ‘merica to get his life saved?
Joe, you are worse than Ronnie Raygun and his “Welfare Queen.”
Shit happens, but it is no where near representative. The Canadians will not give up their universal coverage, the inevitable lapse notwithstanding.
But Ronnie was a con artist supreme, with a solid faith in the average citizen’s selfishness, stupidity, greed, and racism, making them all too ready to believe that you can have a civil society without paying for it.
Dead wrong.
No, YOU are dead wrong…about everything.
You wouldn’t know selflessness if you tripped over it.
You want others to pay…and pay…and pay…so you can feel good about your so-called “compassion.” In fact, your “generosity,” with other peoples money, never stops.
But while you’re busy creating more government programs to prove your compassion you fail to consider the cost in terms of the quality of life for those stuck in the government assistance you applaud. Generational dependency is a curse not a blessing.
Prior to all of your “generosity” it was possible for the poor to work hard and offer their children a better life. Not so now since so much is spent making sure we have lots of dependent, poorly educated children born of poorly educated parents.
$20 trillion in debt is largely due to your “generosity”…younger and future generations will thank you I’m sure!
Reagan believed in people, in their own abilities and creative spirit…something you just don’t get.
In his own words:
One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project.
How can we love our country and not love our countrymen; and loving them, reach out a hand when they fall, heal them when they’re sick, and provide opportunity to make them self-sufficient so they will be equal in fact and not just in theory?
“This Administration’s objective will be a healthy, vigorous, growing economy that provides equal opportunities for all Americans, with no barriers born of bigotry or discrimination. Putting America back to work means putting all Americans back to work. Ending inflation means freeing all Americans from the terror of runaway living costs. All must share in the productive work of this ’new beginning,’ and all must share in the bounty of a revived economy.”
“Whatever else history may say about me when I’m gone, I hope it will record that I appealed to your best hopes, not your worst fears; to your confidence rather than your doubts. My dream is that you will travel the road ahead with liberty’s lamp guiding your steps and opportunity’s arm steadying your way.”
Why would you want less than that for ANYONE? Why would you favor programs that encourage greater dependency?
Forbes wrote of the results from Reagan’s policies:
Why would you be for policies that create more dependency and less opportunity for people to thrive on their own?
WHY? So you can pretend that you’re more compassionate than conservatives, that’s why.
It’s a damned lie
Prior to all of your “generosity” it was possible for the poor to work hard and offer their children a better life.
Prior to the Great Society, poverty was much higher than it is now. Poverty has never gone back to pre-GS levels since. These are facts.
That means your entire premise is false. This mythical former America where generational poverty didn’t exist is a fantasy. Welfare didn’t make poverty worse.
Latest on Obumblecare:
http://www.al.com/news/huntsville/index.ssf/2017/03/rep_mo_brooks_files_bill_to_re.html
With that one act, Representative Brooks has qualified himself as Speaker of the House. Well done, sir!
Instead we get cryin’, lyin’ rat Ryan and his Obammycare Lite.
“Are you ready for healthcare doled out by a single provider ….”
How do you manage to look yourself in the mirror in the morning? This is a bald-assed lie. The only “single” in single payer is the source of funding … all of us.
We should call it commie-payer!! … but then you’d likely seize and die, and we can’t have that on our consciences.
They refuse to be honest
Honesty is something you do not adhere to yourself…honesty from me can’t break the chains of your profound ignorance.
Did you say something?
I’m certain it’s quite easy for you to look yourself in the mirror in the morning. Blind ignorance has a way of reflecting brilliance back atcha!
” The only “single” in single payer is the source of funding … all of us.”
Stoooopid!
A system that has zero government involvement has that same single “source ” of the funding! All of those who choose to buy health insurance.
As Obamacare has shown, even when government imposes a fine (tax) some people will choose not to purchase insurance.
What does than mean in terms of single payer?
ABSOLUTE CONTROL! The singe source of control in single payer is government. Control over healthcare taxes, control over healthcare providers, and control over which practices and procedures shall be allowed.
COST! Under single payer the patient and his medical needs take a back seat to controlling costs which is accomplished by raising taxes o limiting care.
If you could figure out why home computers no longer cost $5000 but have come down to as little as $100…you could get why freeing the industry to free market principles would bring the cost of healthcare and insurance DOWN.
But you are so ideologically bound up your brain operates in perpetual constipation mode!
Incredibly sad. This is not that difficult to understand.
Tina this country is a Modern fascist Country which is also called Corporatism. Bottom Line a Militarized Police Force. making Dissent a Crime. The Gov is ran by Corporate and Big Money interests.
You are OK with them selling off our assets to foreign Corporations who then charge us to use them.
Sorry Charlie it is a well known fact this is not a Democracy. All those Phony wars to spread Democracy while we are enslaved to Big Money Fascist State.
I stand by that. Your America does not exist.
1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
2. Create a gulag
3. Develop a thug caste
4. Set up an internal surveillance system
5. Harass citizens’ groups
6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release
7. Target key individuals
8. Control the press
9. Dissent equals treason
Mission Accomplished FASCIST USA
“also called Corporatism”
I am against corporatism. I have posted articles against it. And yet you continue to treat me like an enemy on this point…ridiculous.
I am not against corporations and free market principles.
Free market: A free market is a system in which the prices for goods and services are set freely by consent between vendors and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority. It is a result of a need being, then the need being met.
“You are OK with them selling off our assets to foreign Corporations ”
What evidence do you have that I am “OK with “them” selling our assets? The idea is absurd, outside of free market agreements.
“…it is a well known fact this is not a Democracy”
In fact it was never a “democracy” but was created as a republic…which I support wholeheartedly! You should too if you really hate fascism.
“we are enslaved to Big Money Fascist State”
If that is your concern then why do you support Sanders who is for an even bigger big money fascist state?
“Mission Accomplished FASCIST USA”
Okay. Now what? You have yet to tell us what you propose to do besides waving signs and yelling slogans, two activities that often invite violence and property destruction. Or supporting a socialist which places your concerns about fascism in conflict.
Name a better country. If you can, why not go there and stop harassing me, someone who favors a free republic with limited power at the federal level, adherence to our rights and freedoms, and expectations of personal responsibility and decency among the citizens.
“A system that has zero government involvement has that same single “source ” of the funding! All of those who choose to buy health insurance.”
Choose????!
I’ll tell you what I told Mr. Ryan (and it made no impression on the man). I can afford what I pay. If I have to pay what they charge, I’d have to give up the apartment and move into the car.
The object of the game is to provide EVERYBODY with access. This is plainly a goal you do not agree with.
Just say so.
“If I have to pay what they charge, I’d have to give up the apartment and move into the car.”
What who charge? Obamacare has been the law for some time now. Nothing has changed…or…you are one of the heavily subsidized bronze people…or on medical?
What if you could choose from different plans, join a group for group rates, buy across state lines, choose the size of your deductible and premium, and have the insurance tied to you…portable?
EVERYBODY has always had ACCESS to care in America.
Why don’t home computers still cost $5000.? If you figure that out you’ll know how to get affordable care that is also (still) accessible to anyone that seeks it.
Of course you’re also going to have to give up that tax, spend, and create massive public debt attitude to really make it work fabulously.
And for those who decry “profits” please explain to all of us how a system of healthcare continues without profit? Where do new supplies and equipment come from if not the profits made in previous years? And do you honestly believe that the many people who work in the industry and depend on it for their livelihood will continue to have a job without profits to sustain expansion and growth and provide services for increased populations? Even charitable hospitals depend on an abundance of contribution to sustain themselves and move forward. They don’t call it profit but it still amounts to an amount of money beyond what is spent on the everyday expenses.
Add unnecessary bureaucratic overhead for busy paperwork and onerous taxation and the cost to the patient will be greater without benefit.
Healthcare is a commodity. It’s a commodity with a lot of emotional baggage but a commodity none the less. If we treat it like we treat any other commodity, introduce free market principles and competition with the goal being satisfaction to patients and doctors first, the cost will come down.
“Healthcare is a commodity. It’s a commodity with a lot of emotional baggage but a commodity none the less.”
Spoken like the moral idiot you do seem to be.
It has nothing to do with morality you twit.Government playing forever parent is not the only way to meet the needs of the truly less fortunate…and you know it!
Charitable hospitals have always operated in America.
People who are capable to take care of themselves should take care of themselves, including their healthcare and insurance needs.
You are part of the driving force to train children like pets, indoctrinating them to be dependent and responsive to government instead of instilling in them that they have an obligation to plan for and prepare for their own futures and to perform by striving toward excellence. Instead of a nation of strong productive people you and your party inspire nothing but weakness and stagnation. Then you scream for the government to take care of you cause its a “right.” What horse hockey!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaach…like talking to a wall.
Bottom Line they have medicare and no one else should have it.
I got mine and you can’t have none
end of story