Posted by Tina
We knew it was happening, insurance companies breaking away from involvement in the ACA (Obamacare). We knew that the rest would fall like dominoes. This morning Aetna announced it’s withdrawal from the last four states where it had been participating. This is happening becasue the plan was poorly written and designed to fail to make way for universal coverage which Hillary, once elected, would press for as it failed. The best laid plans often end in the dumpster!
Democrats have been attempting to spin this fiasco into Trumps arena but that’s just ridiculous. The plan Pelosi called “affordable” has been unaffordable for many of America’s citizens for several years now. There’s no question it has also become unsustainable for the insurers who have taken on many more sick people and very few healthy people to help carry the load under ACA regulations. It’s incredible that so many people still believe the government can deliver an affordable product that works for most people. The VA is a fine example of government healthcare that doesn’t work. Obamacare is a fine example of the fascist takeover of health insurers doesn’t work.
Republicans have an opportunity to restore America’s market based, patient driven healthcare with sensible insurance solution. If they listen to the socialist song, which they seem wont to do, we will continue to struggle like puppies in a drowning sack…forgive the analogy but it seemed to fit. Failing to do this right will fall on them, which is why Democrats in Congress are working so hard to prevent them from doing so.
Imagine a country where those who represent us relent and finally put the best interest of all of the people first. That would be a land where those with differences could put their heads together, exchange ideas, and pick something that actually works. I know, in this highly partisan and divided atmosphere it’s too much to ask. The only thing the people can do is elect better representation. 2018 looms large…what will the people do?
Related: The Next Big Lie About ObamaCare: “Insurers are starting to announce their ObamaCare premiums for next year and they’re at high double-digit rates.”
Wait a minute, is this the same Aetna that was caught lying about their reasons for withdrawing from Obamacare back in January?
http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/24/investing/aetna-obamacare-humana-merger/
And you believe them now? Why?
Because I know first hand what the last eight years has done to business. I know first hand how the last eight years disrupted and blunted business. I know first hand about the added cost of increased regulations and steep losses in revenue. As an ex-business owner I can easily imagine the pure hell that this law caused in the insurance industry.
If a law passed by the government has placed so much pressure on a business that survival depends on a merger and that merger is likely to be denied by a government that’s hostile to business (and secretly wants to end that business and take over) its quite possible desperate measures would be taken. The thing that occurs to me is the fascistic intrusion into a private industry that our government has been engaged in taking over since at least 1965.
The court focused on one thing and made that the reason to deny the merger request. I’d bet there were a number of reasons. One reason the court wouldn’t be concerned with is the cost of the panel of expensive lawyers needed by these companies to keep them legal. Another is the gargantuan bailout they get from the taxpayers for their losses.
If you ask me it’s the ACA that needed closer inspection. There are plenty of lies there. Lies to the taxpayer about how it would work and what it would cost (and how it would bring down the deficit)…and what it would do to the insurance market and to doctors…they just keep piling up. Insurance companies were told people would be forced to buy insurance…how does the court justify that lie that the insurers have accept?
Companies have reported big losses for several years. As the Weekly Standard pointed out in 2014, three quarters of their losses are being picked up by the tax payer to keep them afloat…that is an unsustainable situation and was likely the biggest reason for Aetna/Humana to try for the merger:
I have little sympathy for the insurance companies. I think they made a big mistake when they crawled in bed with the Democrats to create this monstrosity called the ACA. But I also understand they were between a rock and a hard place since the Dems had that super majority and the ACA was going to pass. Still, they had to know where it would lead. And now we are here and everyone, including these insurance companies, are just trying to find a way to survive.
The middle class was screwed to give the Democrats signature legislation…free healthcare to a few more of our citizens was the carrot. The cost has been astronomical! That cost is in more than just dollars. Citizens have paid higher premiums and had deductibles that made using the insurance impossible. We’ve also has added taxes, fees, and expenses that blunt economic growth and loss of jobs. And then we find out that additional tax money is used to subsidize insurance companies to keep them afloat. They literally have tried to create the illusion that it was working. All the while, members of your party claim the very real concerns Americans had about these life and death issues are made up stories…or simply irrelevant! How ’bout we talk about those lies.
I’m fed up with bone headed blind loyalty to progressive policies and ideas that are just complete crap economically. Turns out they are even crap in terms of helping people when so many can’t afford the insurance or can’t use the insurance because they can’t afford the out of pocket and the premium.
Yeah…let’s talk about the lies that surround and infect the ACA and everyone attached to it. Let’s stop trying to prop up those lies.
Excellent Point Chris Hear Hear
Worst words to hear: I’m from the goofernment and I’m here to help. Riiiiight!
Clowngress would be wise to just put an expiration date on Obumblecare and open it up to allow folks to shop across state lines. Then, those who actually WANTED health insurance could take out the insurance that fit their needs. The one-size-fits-all doesn’t work with healthcare (as we’ve seen with Obumblecare) or buying shoes.
And those obstructionists in Clowngress who think they’re helping their cause? We can all cheer when their replacements arrive after the next election.
Keep on keeping on until we get satisfaction!
I say repeal the ACA
kill the medicare these freeloaders ya know the beggars live off of
and kill congressional lifetime healthcare
ect ect
then we will have a conversation
We need to embrace Republican ideology and their elected!
Idaho Rep. Raul Labrador says …. “Nobody dies because they don’t have access to health care.”
So why are we not cutting all this socialistic healthcare for those who say they hate it?
Get off the big gov dole and we can talk
The manner you suggest for cutting these government programs is not a responsible way to correct what amounts to an expensive unworkable mistake. But I’m not surprised you would sarcastically take an extreme position. You favor the fascistic solution of single payer government run healthcare.
Fascism: a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce
The government takes money from people every day to pay for these programs. Some people have paid for fifty or more years. They they did not have a choice. They were not given a choice or an alternative. The heavy hand of (progressive) government demanded it!
Now you think those people should just be blown off. All of that wealth simply surrendered without compensation. That’s big of you.
Republican (conservative/libertarian) suggestions have been made for many years to phase out or change these programs. See here for an example. That type of solution would be the responsible way to take the expensive, intrusive government out and restore choice to the American people. Education needs to change too but that’s another subject for another day.
Your suggestion is idiocy! If you’re going to talk about republican ideas at least bother to know what the hell you’re talking about before opening your trap.
No Tina;
I am tired of this back and forth
Conservatives say they want to cut it all so I say go for it!
Responsible would be to make the ACA LAW Better.
It is not healthcare! It is a LAW!
The hundreds of Campaign Stunt votes we paid for in Congress?
All Grandstanding Bull at Taxpayers expense. So now when you have the chance it is irresponsible?
They can Repeal it now they have control…. Chicken Little’s I say
Hypocrisy is all I see now
You us the word “they” as if our lawmakers were all of one mind. That isn’t the case. The founders wanted it to be difficult to write laws…they wanted the people to live their lives unencumbered (free) with the fewest laws possible.
The law as it stands (ACA) is complex and contains intertwining regulations. A few tweaks will not do and there is disagreement about how best to go about repealing and replacing it.
You expect a lot in just four months.
Tina Excuse me but all we heard was Repeal Obamacare! How many times did we see this House campaign committee vote? Over 100!
Yes lawmakers are forced into like minds.
GOP – There is an agenda and if you do not obey you will be primaried by the Tea party. Most good republicans resigned.
DNC A Corporation where they railroad any grassroots candidates and rather have their Republican friends win than a Populist.
Tina Please stop this sham.
You are well aware of what is going on
or
You are very clueless
And Tina I took the time to get to know the ACA. Did you? No that is apparent
Yes the Law can be fixed. But Hey I see it as futile.
Koch wants all healthcare stripped so it will always be a constant battle to ruin it.
Little Marco undermined te ACA in 2014. And when the rates go up? Y’all say told you so instead of looking at the results of his bill.
Tina you need to get real and do some actual research
The ACA does me no favors as a Working Person so I say repeal it! They have the Power! Push for repeal.
You now say you have a conscience? LOL
No I want Tea Partiers to feel the pain of those things they push for.
Your fav Ted Cruz lied for years I have the town halls recorded, so do not even challenge me. So come on Ted make some noise now! Where is he? they have the power to repeal….
Hence the town halls are full
How many people here actually pay for their healthcare? Name me as one
Do you people?
Do you pay the government fine for not buying insurance too?
Do you have cancer or any other chronic disorder?
Just what is it you pay for?
Aetna makes money insuring wealthy, and consequently, healthy people. You don’t make money insuring impoverished, and consequently, unhealthy people.
Like … I have to tell you this?
So it makes perfect sense that Aetna would have nothing to do with the ACA, which requires insurers to deal with both the rich and the poor.
Single payer !
And if Aetna does not want to be reimbursed at the standard rate, they can pay off their investors, fold up their tents, and retire to their private island. This society can no longer accommodate such profligacy.
Who do you include in the wealthy?
Most Americans either got their insurance at work or bought it themselves from these insurers prior to the ACA and mot are not what I call wealthy.
“…if Aetna does not want to be reimbursed at the standard rate…”
What standard rate would that be? The standard rate that includes the added cost of government intrusion? The standard rate that does not cover these costs or the rate that allows for additional government bail outs in perpetuity?
“This society can no longer accommodate such profligacy.”
Oh really? And where will the revenue come from if you eliminate these companies? (Have you seen Venezuela lately?) $1.071 trillion additional tax monies to prop up insurers because the promised young and healthy prefer to pay a fine than be saddled with high premiums they will probably never need!
Those who are dependent on government for healthcare are also dependent, or attached to someone who’s dependent on others for jobs, energy, food, and other things. Where will the tax revenue come from when you’ve successfully alienated and pushed out business…the wealth builders and providers?
You dream of a perfect world that simply does not exist!
Tina, if Venezuela were the only country with singlepayer healthcare, your constant invocations of Venezuela when discussing single payer healthcare might make sense. But since Venezuela is not the only country with single payer healthcare, your constant invocations of Venezuela just make you sound like you don’t want to address the many, many other countries that have single payer healthcare and are more successful at doing so.
I invoke Venezuela because it was once the richest, most successful nation in South America. That was before Chavez introduced his Marxist policies: state ownership, unfettered spending, subsidies, and domestic price controls all led to weakness. It began with government taking control of oil and farmland…confiscating private property and putting it under state control.
Our Constitution constrains such rapid “fundamental transformation” but the last occupant of the WH sure gave it a try. The financial collapse created the perfect conditions for Obama’s plan. Control of industry was part of the plan from the beginning. Maxine Waters let that cat out of the bag early on. Shutting down drilling, staunch regulations, and increased subsidies for alternatives amounted to a government takeover of the energy sector. The ACA was the best they could do to takeover healthcare until they could push for single payer. Controls over food production were set in play. In California the Central Valley was denied water. Elsewhere lawsuits are brought against companies that grow and sell food. States like NYC and SF attempt to manage salt, sugar and fat intake through regulation. The First Lady puts the kids on Kale and tofu (and it ends up in the garbage)…control control control!
Under these conditions another element has been allowed to thrive, the criminal element. It infects the young and invites corruption at all levels. Law order and justice is compromised. We have protest in the streets and the police are demonized. This all works to demoralize people making them feel weak and vulnerable.
All the while the propaganda machine continues to create fake enemies: evil corporations and bankers, free markets, conservative “haters”…crises are manufactured (climate change) to keep the people anxious, angry and distracted. The opposition party makes a handy whipping boy and is blamed for all the troubles…job losses, poor wages, and loss of opportunity.
The State is touted as savior, provider and protector.
Once the nation has been sufficiently weakened a transformer type can move, sometimes bloodlessly, to fundamentally alter the government and its constitution permanently. Ignorant people cheer.
People always say, that can’t happen here. They point to Europe as an example. People also say Europe is ripe for war…like 1932. Should it happen, how certain are you that these weak socialist nations would see freedom, equal rights, justice and the rule of law win in the end?
During WWII Europe nearly lost to a fascist dictator. Victory kept the flame of freedom burning for a few decades even as socialist polices thrived. But the WWII generation is almost all gone now. Newer generations don’t have the memories or sufficient education and experience to protect themselves from would be tyrants.
Tyrants have existed in every century why would this one be any different?
Freedom is never more than one generation from extinction. Learn the lesson or lose it!
Tina
How many countries have a program like single payer? Why do their people fight to keep it?
Why are the same exact drugs made by the same exact companies cheaper in Canada and all these other countries?
Why do we rate so low for good healthcare and pay outrageous prices?
Wake UP!
Tina
Employer’s have a Loophole in the ACA. They formed Corporate exchanges AON being the favorite. The prices are outrageous! You have no coverage paying $800 a month! A common deductible is $2500 so unless it is a huge medical problem all doctors visits ect can come out of your pocket…and that is at $800 a month
So if you are implying that corporate exchanges are some great deal you are grossly wrong.
That is one part of the ACA Law that was got wrong and needs to be fixed. Let Workers buy on any exchange not be forced into the rip off corporate exchanges.
I do not see them repealing that! They love that profit center! Pay and get nothing unless it is catastrophic!
The ACA did not give employers that loophole. It was regulated in after the law was passed…one of the many things not voted on by our representatives. Obamacare has attached to it 20,000 pages of regulations (see photo)…”nearly eight times the length of the infamous original bill.”
I’m not implying anything, Dewey.
I am telling you that what we have the government gave us. Corporations are subject to the law. They do not work outside the law. Politicians, specifically Democrats, the president, Congress and in the bureaucracy, created this behemoth of a law.
The exchanges aren’t of corporate design…they were designed by politicians who promised the (stupid in my opinion) corporations the bill would bring more customers their way. (Some of those corporations are run by Democrats by the way who believed in government running the industry.)
When the industry was private, and before medicare and medicaid, the costs associated with healthcare tracked like the rest of America’s industries. Prices rose with inflation. Insurance was only used in case of catastrophic injury or illness. when big companies decided to add health insurance as an incentive they created an unequal situation. those who worked for themselves or for smaller companies could not buy the coverage that big groups could buy. The government should have passed a law back then allowing citizens to form large groups (like AARP) so that price was controlled through public choice and certainty.
If you care to learn more about what is making it so difficult to repeal and replace Obamacare, outside of the politics, see here.
Republicans are not interested in denying people the healthcare they need or throwing them off Medicaid. They are attempting to create a law that empowers the people and their doctors. They want a bill that creates competition among insurers to the benefit of the people. And they want a bill that offers both more choices at better prices. Given the complexity of the ACA and it’s mountain of regulations, along with the rules of Congress, this is not an easy task.
Another good article on this subject is here, although if preceded the House bill.
You cannot get what Republicans want by listening to what democrat politicians and single-payer-advocating news outlets say.
Tina
The ACA Law has an Employer loophole PERIOD
You work?
You Pay for your Healthcare?
Why do you think you should dictate to those who actually pay?
Or even understand the corporate exchanges?
I am on the corporate exchange . I am forced on by the crime of holding a job
As you have pointed out, the problem with Obamacare is that it relies on private insurance companies. So I would think the solution would be to move away from private insurance.
However the GOP healthcare bill gives insurance companies more control and more power.
Seems like no solution at all.
Indeed. I was that pissed. But if we take it as given that the nation’s health insurers cannot be simply scraped (the O-man was really a conservative kind of guy … and there is the Belgian model), then what we need is for the Senate to eviscerate the ACHA, which, how knows, maybe they will.
The GOP bill gives control to the individual. (If they do it right)
Do bread companies control which bread you buy? Or, do you have a variety of options from which you can choose?
When companies must compete for your business you have control and they work to get your business.
Unfortunately for those of us in California the state passed laws mandating that all policies include things not everyone wants or needs. If we could purchase across state lines we could buy insurance that better suits our needs and our wallets.
Young, unmarried men shouldn’t have to buy insurance that covers pregnancy or Alzheimers. Coverage for broken bones and head injuries might be more appropriate. Cancer coverage is probably wise for everyone. Some might prefer to keep their premium down by accepting a higher deductible because they are basically healthy and responsible on the road and in recreation. Others might be involved in risky work or recreation and want to reverse that. The key is they would have choices.
No insurance company will offer 100 different plans but they would have several from which to choose. Also, the law will give people the choice to join a group to help bring costs down. Companies have been able to do this, individuals should too.
Tina
Pay for your insurance and then talk to us
I have access to a yacht, does not mean I can afford a yacht
The Wall street traded Ins companies are mandated by law to secure profit for their investors first by law.
So ACA?
80% of premiums has to go to healthcare only 20% allowed for admin.
Prior to ACA they threw people off the Ins as soon as a major expense came up. Acne, Pregnant ect ect was considered a Pre existing.
College Kids can stay on parents til 26.
Ect ect
My pre ACA Premiums for Blue Cross went from $500 to $1500 in 3 years.
That is why they took the Heritage Foundation/Romney Care versions and negotiated the ACA from them.
Problem is the Dems allowed too many people too many concessions.
Single Payer will come to be. First Repeal the ACA and let the Baggers loose their care.
medicaid , medicare all of it is on the chopping block.
You need to loose your healthcare to understand? Than let’s make it happen!
REPEAL!
“Pay for your insurance and then talk to us”
Do you bother to read anything anyone else posts here?
How often must I give you information before it sinks in?
MOST of my adult life I’ve paid for my own insurance, including 30 years when I paid both my own insurance and the insurance for my employees AND the employee and employer portion of payroll FICA for myself and the employer portion for my employees. I wrote the checks…I paid! In the case if FICA I also made the deposits and reported weekly or monthly and quarterly. I WAS NOT COMPENSATED FOR THIS WORK BY THE GOVERNMENT….so I paid even more.
So you can just shut up about that.
“The Wall street traded Ins companies are mandated by law to secure profit for their investors first by law.”
Ridiculous! Insurers are mandated to take care of their customers first. Anything else would be a breach of their contract with the customer and their charter as an insurance company!
Stockholders have a different agreement. They take a risk. They turn over a portion of their disposable money in exchange for a certain number of shares in the company. If the company manages it’s business well and other factors are favorable, the price of the stock can go up. They profit from this investment only when they sell their shares at a higher price than when they bought them. If the company offers dividends (not all do) investors and customers in some cases, can expect a cash return yearly on their investment as well.
When a person allows another entity, like a company or a bank, to utilize their money for a time as a means of creating even cash flow or meeting increased business demands they should get something in return. When they put their money in a stock it is taken out of their hands with a promise for future gain. There is nothing wrong or illegal or greedy about it. (Investors know the risks…or should.)
Every person with a pension or IRA, including government workers, union workers, and many middle class workers are invested for profit. (it’s called building a nest egg and climbing the ladder of success!) Because of this, building wealth (money/property) has been possible to anyone in our free country. This is not possible, or it is severely blunted, under the heavy hand of governments around the world. All of the once disposable private money is taken in taxes and fees. The government is soon corrupted and the people suffer even more with less ability to personally affect their own futures.
Health insurers are able to meet the tremendous demand for payment from doctors and hospitals for their patients, and it is HUGE, because investors allow them to use their money for a time through the purchase of stock. Premium can be kept smaller when investors take that risk…especially when the government isn’t playing middle man and adding another big expense!
“Big Pharma is a mafia here in the US and Both parties take their money”
Another over the top lie. Comparing them to the mafia makes you look like an idiot and that’s about all. The inequities in our prices compared to other countries is partly due to their government run systems. If the companies didn’t take such a big hit in those markets our prices wouldn’t be as high. In effect we are subsidizing the worlds RX.
Greed. You should be very familiar with that word. You are a greedy covetous man who expects “the rich” to surrender what they have earned to create a fascistic health care system of wealth redistribution.
covetous: having or showing a great desire to possess something, typically something belonging to someone else
(The worst expression of greed)
What makes you think those in government won’t profit, and profit greatly, from single payer? Think of the power that much control conveys!
The ‘pillage’ movement:
Quite possible in my opinion. Many young people have not been taught the value of freedom, property rights, and personal responsibility!
So, Dewey. Are you a dupe or a true believer?
The fact that we already adopted these socialist programs (MC & SS) doesn’t mean that it was a good idea. Both are ultimately unsustainable and adding to the debt. Ripping these programs away suddenly and without some form of return in services would be irresponsible. But a plan to gradually reform SS and eliminate government run healthcare programs, with sensible alternatives available, makes sense.
At the same time we need to start educating our kids again and better prepare them to become independent contributing adults. Our nation is only as strong as it’s weakest link. The stronger our population the better we will all be.
When companies must compete for your business you have control and they work to get your business.
This simply is not the case when it comes to health insurance.
It used to be and it could be again.
Also
The real problem is the price gauging
The costs are too high, why? Wall street and CEO profits.
Big Pharma is a mafia here in the US and Both parties take their money
Oh and Atena ? They want to get in on the single payer talks, they want to participate…..
I have to analyze if their idea is good or bad by looking at their past performance but read all about it and do the research,
Single payer will happen, The costs of healthcare have to be addressed as well #GREED
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-aetna-ceo-idUSKBN1882CI
https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/5/12/15428174/dissecting-aetnas-surprising-single-payer-stance
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/333100-aetna-ceo-called-for-debate-about-single-payer-healthcare-report
Speaking at a recent conference, Mark Bertolini, CEO and Chairman of Aetna Insurance, announced that the end is near for profit driven health insurance companies. “The system doesn’t work, it’s broke today. The end of insurance companies, the way we’ve run the business in the past, is here.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/02/23/single-payer-health-care-is-coming-to-america-are-we-ready/#55e5db18572f