by Jack
The ladies in the picturd are part of a movement to raise awareness about sexual assault and their theme, is, “Take back the night.” They want women to be safe no matter what they wear or where they walk. I can applaud that, but I think they are pretty much wasting their time with this protest because they people they need to address aren’t listening.
These scantily clad girls are trying to send a message to a certain group of men, that their dress does not imply consent and men should respect their right to dress the way they want and to be out in the night in any area they want. I respect that part too.
However, the implication here is that perverts actually give a #$& what they think. They don’t of course! You can wear that black bikini and write not consent all over your bare skin, but if you think you’re any safer, better think again.
The point you ladies are missing is that rape is a violent sexual assault done by a very sick person. He’s not acting rational and you can’t reason with him, like you can most men who DO respect women and who would NEVER think of raping them.
If a rape law with mandatory prison sentence of 3, 6, or 8 years (CA Penal Code 264) is not a deterence, then why would you think that a candle light vigil is going to pursuade predators? We average, normal guys get it, you don’t have to convince us…but then we’re not the problem! Sexual deviates are the problem and there’s almost no chance of convincing them rape is unacceptable, all we can do is lock them up. They don’t care about your rights, they don’t care about womens lib or anything else…they are sick, twisted, predators without a conscience. They would just as soon rape you as they would rape a female cop and most of them probably could if they caught her alone and she carries a gun! What chance do you think you have alone late at night with your emergency whistle or even pepper spray?
If they want to target the right people, people who assume the victim was a loose woman or they think its right to punish a rape victim and not just insinuate she was asking for it, then I say they should hold a candel-light vigil in Saudi Araba, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Libya Indonesia, and Pakistan, anywhere the Muslims are in power. And if they can’t do that, then do it in front of their embassies here! Those are the kind of people who are desperately in need of enlightenment!
Here’s a thought to consider, California sentencing guidelines for 1st degree rape is one of the more lenient in the nation. If you want to protest something why not protest the liberals who relaxed the sentencing from life without parole down to 3 years with 1 year off for good behavior for violent rape? I would say your liberal pals in Sacramento are not taking your safety seriously, what do you think?
Sexual deviates are a big problem and you nailed it on that problem, Jack. They don’t care and women who think they can be persuaded otherwise are delusional or confused.
So what do these women want? I wonder if they even know what they want. (World peace?)
An aspect of the wider problem is the mixed and muddied messages that society and modern women send.
Take Back the Night was originally about domestic violence and sexual assault. We’re talking a different situation here. But an underlying problem of incivility still applies.
Standing around the town square in a bathing suit at night is to me inappropriate to the cause and incredibly ineffectual. And writing on your belly? It may say “not consent” but it is, along with the bathing suit, provocative in nature…and childishly irresponsible. I dare you! What messages are ordinary, non-aggressive men supposed to take away from this? I’ll tell you what the casual observer might see: Women who write letters on their abdomen and wear bathing suits at night are freaky? Is this the new way to talk about global warming? Women are nuts?
Now that anything goes sexually in our society and everyone is okay no matter what they do, how they dress or behave…now that all sexual activity is out in the open, rather than private, and we are scolded if we attempt to draw distinctions (even S&M is just another preference)…what do these women expect will happen in our society? They don’t seem to realize that they are the emotional and behavioral gatekeepers. Women choose the men they will take into their homes and beds. They raise the children (in most cases). They shape and form the value system for tomorrows adults in the first five years of those children’s lives. They make the rules and are the first enforcers. How many five year old boys (and girls) have been basically left in the wilds to shape themselves based on the images and words they experience without much supervision and guidance? Judging by the state of our society I’d say a large portion of them. Anyone that has survived the last four or five decades should sing praises to their parents! Women have definitely failed in this area of responsibility…most don’t even realize it is their responsibility.
Also…the rules women make for themselves, aye yai yai, are not helping the situation at all.
These women seem to be demanding the right to be held completely unaccountable, no matter what. I tell you what, I wouldn’t be a man today for anything!
Jack: “The implication here is that perverts actually give a damn what they think.”
But perverts aren’t the target audience. The target audience is average members of the culture who think it’s relevant to ask a rape victim what she was wearing.
“The point you ladies are missing is that rape is a violent sexual assault”
It seriously concerns me that a police officer thinks that this is the definition of rape. You know that, legally and morally, rape is not always “violent,” right? Have you read the California penal code regarding rape?
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/1/9/1/s261
“done by a very sick person. He’s not acting rational and you can’t reason with him, like you can most men who DO respect women and who would NEVER think of raping them.”
“We average, normal guys get it, you don’t have to convince us…but then we’re not the problem! Sexual deviates are the problem and there’s almost no chance of convincing them rape is unacceptable, all we can do is lock them up. They don’t care about your rights, they don’t care about womens lib or anything else…they are sick, twisted, predators without a conscience. They would just as soon rape you as they would rape a female cop and most of them probably could if they caught her alone and she carries a gun! What chance do you think you have alone late at night with your emergency whistle or even pepper spray?”
Jack, your entire view of rape and rapists is seriously skewed. Most estimates show about 70 – 90% of rapes are perpetrated by someone known to the victim. Most prosecuted rapists are not found to have a mental illness. Often rape occurs when a victim is too drunk to consent. The ideas that rape is always violent, that women can be safe by not going out late at night in certain neighborhoods or dressed a certain way, or that rapists are mostly insane strangers are all myths.
But these protests are about more than just clear-cut instances of rape. They are about changing a culture which doesn’t really understand or value consent.
“But perverts aren’t the target audience. The target audience is average members of the culture who think it’s relevant to ask a rape victim what she was wearing.”
Chris you are probably right and in a way that’s too bad, because thier message isn’t targeting the people it should. For the most part of maledom we’ve learned and we’ve moved beyond that chauvenist thinking of just a few decades ago. Which proves change can happen when you target the right people, but that’s my point, they’re not. Police officers have moved well beyond thinking the victim contributed to her own rape, but there can be some misunderstanding of how police interview. They need to ask very specific questions in order to see if a patern exists. Merely asking about what she was wearing isn’t the same as inferring the victim encouraged the rape, okay? Of course the police need to explain this to the victim so she understands where this line of questions is going. So yes Chris things have drastically improved…thanks to many, many protests, even movies about rape and of course classroom education and good parenting. This all has helped!
If they want to target the right people, people who assume the victim was a loose woman or they think its right to punish a rape victim and not just insinuate she was asking for it, then I say they should hold a candel-light vigil in Saudi Araba, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Libya Indonesia, and Pakistan anywhere the Muslims are in power or at least do it in front of their embassies here! Those are great targets for enlightenment!
Those places really do blame it on the female victim first! You should know that. Sometimes they brutally punish the victim, while the guy/s rarely gets much attention, because he was overcome by her womanly wiles and seduced…oh, what a load of BS! But, that’s their mentality!!!! And they dare to call this the religion of peace? Ha! Everytime I hear about a woman being abused and her right trashed…I think of Muslim countries. Just like everytime I hear about a suicide bomber or a market place bombing…I think Muslims. Sorry if that is being biased, but it happens so #@$%^ much it’s just normal to think of them when something like that happens.
Sadly, you just don’t see anyone here or in those 3rd world countries coming out in public to condemn the terrible practices and attitudes towards women and young girls. Those offending countries need to be censured on the world stage and I wonder why they aren’t? Is it their oil or something that gets them a pass?
Before you say it, okay, okay, I know some people in those countries are enlightened, and they don’t believe in that junk, but they are the exception. They are terrified to say anything because of the ignorant majority. The Muslim Imams that promote this 10th century attitude toward women need to come into the 21st century..we should do whatever we can to see that do.
Chris: “But these protests are about more than just clear-cut instances of rape. They are about changing a culture which doesn’t really understand or value consent.”
How effective do you think this protest was, Chris? Do you think that anyone was made more aware?
Chris: “Often rape occurs when a victim is too drunk to consent.”
Have you any idea how often the guy was also too drunk to be a reasonable, responsible person? And why is he held accountable and not her? To me the idea that women can drink to the point of oblivion and be held blameless but not the guys is just ridiculous.
“The ideas that rape is always violent, that women can be safe by not going out late at night in certain neighborhoods or dressed a certain way, or that rapists are mostly insane strangers are all myths.”
Tell that to the women who have been raped by strangers at night at home or on the street. And of course women will be safer if they dress reasonably and don’t go out alone at night, especially in certain neighborhoods. Good grief!
Also, I recall another discussion on this subject when you admonished that rape was not sex but instead, assault so at least to some degree I think you also believe it is “violent”.
Keep in mind that “date rape” is a relatively new phenomenon of the drug culture. Although there were undoubtedly cases of rape by a non-stranger in more civilized periods in our history the opportunity to be raped due to being “too drunk to consent” is much more common these days. Why would women expect otherwise? It is also less common that men have been trained to have manners and treat women as people that should be respected and protected by men. Young people are taught and are exposed to so much absolute crap today…a BJ isn’t sex (Thank you President Clinton)…hooking up is a natural teenage expression and expected…kids as young as five are ready for sex education and by 12-14 are old enough to give consent…the message today is that a person is identified in terms of sex and sexuality! There is no other value that is given such attention and focus. This is THE state of being for too many teenagers. It wasn’t always so.
This problem will not be solved by standing on the street at night in a bathing suit. It will not be solved by pointing fingers at men. Women have to be responsibility and own this problem. Women have the greatest power to effect change…to reduce the probability of becoming a rape victim. To ensure that future generations are more civil…but they never look at problems like these in terms of what they can actually do. they look at it in terms of what others must do because they said so.
It would take a new kind of thinking to effect real change regarding rape and civil behavior in our society. If millions of women woke to the idea, made the commitment, and started a movement it would still take many decades before the result would be realized.
In the meantime the message these girls send from my perspective is this: I can parade in front of you showing lots of skin…I can pretty much wear whatever I want and do whatever I want and you cannot touch. I can provoke and tease and no one will hold me accountable if things get out of hand and go all wacko…even if we’re drinking and doing drugs…I am blameless!
It’s not responsible adult thinking…it is a power trip no less damaging to society that when women were unfairly blamed and men were let off the hook.
In the cases that Jack referred to the victim is blameless. But in cases of domestic violence the problem cannot always be placed entirely on the men. Women who are involved with men who are violent also have a problem, usually of enabling or being too tolerant until things get out of hand. They are as inept at being like gravity as the guys parents, if he had them, were. I blame the culture for all of the date rape going on.
Of course, I’m speaking in terms of the social fabric and the psychology involved because these women are attempting to create change. Legal responsibility is another matter.
Putting blame on women for the deficiencies of men?
I say castration of a rapist will solve the problem.
Guaranteed another Viagra commercial will be on soon.
Well Dewey now there’s one we can agree on!
Tina: “How effective do you think this protest was, Chris? Do you think that anyone was made more aware?”
I don’t know exactly how to estimate that, but judging by conversations I have had in real life and Facebook, similar protests have raised awareness among some men and women of my generation. I think the target audience is college-aged people, and among that audience, the response I have seen has been mostly positive. I don’t expect these protests to change your mind. Frankly, they don’t really need to. Cultural changes happen among the youth.
“Have you any idea how often the guy was also too drunk to be a reasonable, responsible person? And why is he held accountable and not her? To me the idea that women can drink to the point of oblivion and be held blameless but not the guys is just ridiculous.”
Have you any idea how the law works? In these circumstances the initiator is supposed to be held legally responsible, regardless of gender.* We don’t excuse any other type of crime because of the presence of alcohol; why are you so eager to excuse this one?
*Of course, men are much less likely to report rape, because of the cultural notions that men always want sex and cannot be raped by a woman. We can thank patriarchy, not feminism, for that.
“Tell that to the women who have been raped by strangers at night at home or on the street.”
Are you saying that those women shouldn’t be exposed to basic facts? I am not reducing the plight those women face, I’m saying that to focus on those instances as if they are the most common is wrong.
“And of course women will be safer if they dress reasonably and don’t go out alone at night, especially in certain neighborhoods. Good grief!”
“Of course” they will. Why, it’s so obvious, you don’t even need to see any evidence to make that conclusion! Whee!
“Keep in mind that “date rape” is a relatively new phenomenon of the drug culture.”
Evidence, please.
“Although there were undoubtedly cases of rape by a non-stranger in more civilized periods in our history the opportunity to be raped due to being “too drunk to consent” is much more common these days.”
Probably true, but that doesn’t mean that stranger rape was at any time more common than acquaintance rape. If that’s the argument you want to make, you need to provide evidence.
“Why would women expect otherwise?”
Uh…because they should?
I find it really sad that you don’t see why women should expect more. Men, typically, don’t have to worry about being raped if they get too drunk at a party. (Not that it doesn’t happen–it does, in greater numbers than people think–but we don’t teach our boys that it’s a reasonable expectation.) In a truly equal society it wouldn’t be “expected” to happen either.
“It is also less common that men have been trained to have manners and treat women as people that should be respected and protected by men.”
Yes, but today it’s also less common that men are trained to believe that women are property. (It’s still unfortunately common, just…less.) I don’t think you can make a real, evidence-based case that rape was less common in the “good old days.” Yes, sex was less accepted; but sexism was more accepted.
“by 12-14 are old enough to give consent…”
Uh, where? Nowhere in America is that the case, and feminists are certainly not pushing for this. If anything, it is red states that have the lowest ages of consent, and that has more to do with tradition than with anything new or modern.
“It will not be solved by pointing fingers at men.”
Who has pointed fingers at men? You’re making a strawman argument.
“Women have the greatest power to effect change…to reduce the probability of becoming a rape victim.”
You realize that’s what these women are trying to do, right?
“In the meantime the message these girls send from my perspective is this: I can parade in front of you showing lots of skin…I can pretty much wear whatever I want and do whatever I want and you cannot touch. I can provoke and tease and no one will hold me accountable if things get out of hand and go all wacko…even if we’re drinking and doing drugs…I am blameless!”
Well, yeah. I honestly see nothing wrong with the above. That is exactly the way things should be.
“It’s not responsible adult thinking…it is a power trip no less damaging to society that when women were unfairly blamed and men were let off the hook.”
So…believing that no one should have sex with anyone without their consent, under any circumstances, is “no less damaging to society” than when consent was believed to be completely irrelevant.
I can’t possibly agree with you there.
“Chris you are probably right and in a way that’s too bad, because thier message isn’t targeting the people it should.”
I think it’s targeting exactly the people it should. The fact is that many guys are confused about what constitutes consent. And why wouldn’t they be? We still live in a culture which tells men they get value from scoring and tells women they get value from keeping themselves pure. Yes, the culture has changed and women show more skin, but the word “slut” still has a lot of power, while there is no equivalent word for a man who has a lot of sex partners. A lot of sex partners for a guy is considered a good thing, but a woman with a lot of sex partners is considered to be worth less.
This has real world results. “Accidental rape” is a thing that happens. Men are taught to continue pursuing women and pushing their boundaries until they relent. Women sometimes “let it happen” out of fear and intimidation, even if that’s not what the man intends.
Making the line of consent clear in our culture is important and can stop this kind of thing from happening. We need to know more than just “no means no.” What about “yes means yes?” What if we said that sex shouldn’t happen without clear, verbal consent, rather than assuming that because a woman (or man) didn’t say no or fight back, she (or he) wanted it?
“For the most part of maledom we’ve learned and we’ve moved beyond that chauvenist thinking of just a few decades ago.”
Obviously, I disagree. We’ve made progress, of course, but sexism still pervades our culture and influences the minds of our boys and girls. I am teaching a unit on gender roles in Macbeth right now at a high school. Many of these kids still have some very regressive ideas about the roles of men and women. (I don’t tell them that, of course, but I do let them hash it out and try to ask thought-provoking questions.) These protests are still necessary.
“If they want to target the right people, people who assume the victim was a loose woman or they think its right to punish a rape victim and not just insinuate she was asking for it, then I say they should hold a candel-light vigil in Saudi Araba, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Libya Indonesia, and Pakistan anywhere the Muslims are in power or at least do it in front of their embassies here! Those are great targets for enlightenment!
…
Sadly, you just don’t see anyone here or in those 3rd world countries coming out in public to condemn the terrible practices and attitudes towards women and young girls.”
Jack, why do you say “you” when you mean “I?” Just because you haven’t seen these things doesn’t mean they aren’t happening. There is actually a growing movement of Muslim feminists who are challenging their governments. Haven’t you at least heard of young Malala Yousafzi? She’s gotten a huge amount of press in the U.S. lately for standing up against the Taliban for women’s rights.
Chris, we’re on the same side on this, so I’m not sure why you’re trying to nit pick? For instance you complain because, I said, “Sadly, you just don’t see anyone here or in those 3rd world countries coming out in public to condemn the terrible practices and attitudes towards women and young girls.” Figuratively speaking this is a true statement. Yes, one innocent Muslim school girl, Malala Yousafzi, tried to speak and look what happened! She immediately received a death sentence from a gang of Muslims men. Fortunately for her they didn’t succeed. But, she was shot in the head by Muslims who could justifiy their actions using the Koran….sorry, but I can’t accept this. Of course I applaud young Malala Yousafzi, I think she’s a Saint! Can I say that without you pointing out the Vatican didn’t actually grant her Saint status?
I’m not “nitpicking.” Your statements are factually untrue. Even in your last comment your defense is to quote yourself saying, “Sadly, you just don’t see anyone here or in those 3rd world countries coming out in public to condemn the terrible practices and attitudes towards women and young girls.”
You then call this statement “figuratively true.” What? Either it’s true or it isn’t. If there are people like Malala Yousafzi who are speaking out (and there are more than just “one”), then your statement that “you don’t see anyone…coming out…to condemn…” is false, period.
I am glad to see you share my admiration for Malala, but then why do you always claim that “no one” in the Muslim world is speaking out against radical Islam? Wouldn’t it be more constructive to highlight those voices that are speaking out, rather than constantly accusing Muslims of being silent in the face of oppression? This is my problem: you always demand that Muslims and feminists do more, but you never stop to acknowledge those that ARE doing something. It seems like a no-win situation with you.
I think this attitude is unhelpful and creates confusion. It erases the people that are genuinely trying to reform their societies and creates the impression that no positive work is being done. That’s why I don’t see my comments as “nitpicking.”
Editor’s note: Figuratively as in a broad statement, not meant to include every rare exception, just in a generalization. And that is in it’s intent and context a true statement because nobody in their right mind expects an author to include such minute detail…that would be absurd.
Chris: “I don’t expect these protests to change your mind.”
To change my mind about what?
“Have you any idea how the law works?”
I wasn’t talking about the law. I was addressing the social mores that are screwed up and that, in my humble opinion, do not help keep women safe or help men to develop the kind of sensibilities that would greatly reduce “date rape”.
“…why are you so eager to excuse this one?”
I did not speak about excuses being handed out. I spoke about responsibility being recognized. (And remember responsibility is not about blame or credit; it is acknowledging cause in a situation).
“Of course, men are much less likely to report rape, because of the cultural notions that men always want sex and cannot be raped by a woman. We can thank patriarchy, not feminism”
The art of seduction has apparently escaped you! There is only a thin slice of air between seduction and deception…give me a break! Such a female is bound to cry innocence once the wheels fall off the bus. (Remember I am addressing this in the realm of social mores not the law; the protest was in the realm of social mores)
“Whee!”
Your idiot sarcasm…childish…I thought this was a serious discussion.
“Evidence, please.”
Give me a break. The term did not even exist until the eighties or early nineties:
Independent:
“…that doesn’t mean that stranger rape was at any time more common than acquaintance rape.”
Please be advised, I wasn’t making that case.
“Uh…because they should?”
Please Chris, I would really like to hear how a society should except that girls or women can get high or drunk or both, freely show their body parts, act seductively and indicate willingness with a bunch a equally inebriated men and not expect that they might have placed themselves in a compromising position. How many parties today are closed and how many are pretty much open to anyone who wonders in off the street? How safe should they expect to feel when they have lowered their standards to near zero on a 100 scale?
I am asking you just to consider that while we have succeeded in overcoming male efforts to protect men from legal consequences our efforts to hold women socially blameless have gone too far. Maybe we can’t and shouldn’t prosecute women for acting really stupidly and getting themselves in compromised situations but we should at least begin to encourage them to smarten up for the sake of our society!
“…but today it’s also less common that men are trained to believe that women are property.”
Still firmly ensconced in that PC box! Chris, did I say anything about women being property! What kind of excuse is that?
“I don’t think you can make a real, evidence-based case that rape was less common in the “good old days.”
Probably not to anyone that wasn’t alive in the good old days but to anyone who was its a no-brainer…even in the big cities.
There is an interesting article out of LA that features interviews with people that have lived there a long time. they are talking about crime rather than rape but it gives an indication that in terms of social mores men and women were a lot safer:
“Uh, where? Nowhere in America is that the case,”
I am not talking about the law! I am talking about the push to make everything acceptable. Bill Clinton’s Surgeon General was always talking about sex…she thought (And said it on national TV) that five year old’s should be taught to masturbate. The pedophile community has been pushing for many years to normalize the idea of sexual relations with young children…this is not an unknown fact. Consider the numbers of people who hold Roman Polanski blameless for the brutal rape of a 13 year old girl. the excuse that is often given is that girls in LA grow up faster than in other places. pathetic.
There has been a concerted effort to normalize all kinds of behaviors and I don’t think it has led to society, or men, having respect for women.
“Well, yeah. I honestly see nothing wrong with the above. That is exactly the way things should be.”
Yeah…if you ever have a daughter I’m sure you will think just that…she can act and dress like a slut anywhere in public and it will be okay by you…but man those boys better keep their paws to themselves. (STUPID MAN)
“So…believing that no one should have sex with anyone without their consent, under any circumstances…”
You miss the point entirely. that is because you are so brainwashed you cannot think outside of the standard female studies storyline. For heavens sake Chris…THINK! Why does it make sense that women should hold such ridiculous power that they have no responsibility in what happens to them. You might as well call them brain dead!
Chris to Jack: “The fact is that many guys are confused about what constitutes consent.”
No sh#t Sherlock! What the he77 do you think I was talking about when I suggested that women taking the position that they can do anything, say anything, dress in any way, flirt, be seductive, be suggestive, do mass amounts of drugs and alcohol but when they say no the guys are supposed to change gears suddenly in their drunken stupor and respect her right to say no.
The protest itself is a mixed message!
Dewey: “Putting blame on women for the deficiencies of men?”
Please don’t confuse our readers. I did not suggest such a thing…nor did I mean to imply it.
Viagra is being used by men of all ages. Another indication of the lost nature of this society.
I did suggest that women can conduct themselves in such a way so as to reduce the instances of rape. they can do a better job of raising their children for starters (Or decide not to have them if they prefer to live a casual self absorbed lifestyle).
They can dress and act in such a way so that the men they are around understand that they are not treats offered up for casual consumption.
This is the responsibility (not blame) I was discussing.
Chris, I also meant to say to you that I have no illusions about the good old days being in the past. I don’t have any desire to “bring back” the good ol’ days. I don’t think the good old days have to return to make life safer and more abundantly satisfying for everybody.
I could not tell you what a more moral society would look like today because the artists and musicians, the innovators and dreamers will always put a new stamp on future years. Decency doesn’t have to be lost in the process…lives do not have to be destroyed to bring new colors and flavors to life.
I do wonder at the resistance to entreaties for common social decency…even wisdom.
Only have time to respond to one thing right now:
Tina: “No sh#t Sherlock! What the he77 do you think I was talking about when I suggested that women taking the position that they can do anything, say anything, dress in any way, flirt, be seductive, be suggestive, do mass amounts of drugs and alcohol but when they say no the guys are supposed to change gears suddenly in their drunken stupor and respect her right to say no.”
Tina, that right there is exactly what I am talking about. None of the behavior you describe constitutes consent to sex, and yet many men seem to think it does. Teaching men and women that these behaviors do not constitute consent is important, and needs to be done. If a woman behaves the way you describe and then says “no,” of course that should be respected! I am not saying the woman’s behavior is right, I am saying that none of that justifies ignoring her right to say “no” at any point.
A progressive zombie is a progressive zombie is a progressive zombie —
http://zombietime.com/sluts_on_parade_slutwalk_sf_2012/
Chris: “Tina, that right there is exactly what I am talking about. None of the behavior you describe constitutes consent to sex, and yet many men seem to think it does.”
It won’t get better either. Men are sent mixed messages and women haven’t done anything in terms of dress, attitudes, or early training of their children to help. In fact they have done just the opposite. They have played friend to their children instead of parent. That is, in fact, the most obvious feature of the Clinton Lewinski affair. He was a sexually moral adolescent, pretending to be 30 something instead of fifty something.
“I am not saying the woman’s behavior is right, I am saying that none of that justifies ignoring her right to say “no” at any point.”
And I never said otherwise. Instead I brought up the fact that men have been neglected, abused, and finally dumped on in the women’s movement quest for equality. Women changed all the rules, giving themselves great powers and not all of it is just.
Don’t you think that women have a responsibility to create clear boundaries if they do not want to become victims of rape? I sure do. Boundaries for themselves as well as for men.
“It won’t get better either. Men are sent mixed messages”
Right, and these protesters are trying to un-mix them. They are making it clear that none of the behaviors you’re concerned about qualify as consent. Style of dress and flirting does not imply consent to sex. It seems like you’re the one suggesting it does, which means you’re the one sending mixed messages.
“Don’t you think that women have a responsibility to create clear boundaries if they do not want to become victims of rape? I sure do. Boundaries for themselves as well as for men.”
Again, that’s literally exactly what the protesters in this story are doing: setting boundaries. You just don’t like where those boundaries are set.