WAR: We Have It Whether We Want It or Don’t

Posted by Tina

As we watch events unfold in Iraq, Syria, Iran and surrounding nations it’s difficult to imagine how this terrorist upheaval will end. We don’t have the option of no news being good news anymore so we check our computers for breaking news that might establish direction and goals.

Charles Powell asks “Has the West gone soft?” Then answers with the suggestion that people living in the west seem to lack the passion to fight for freedom that was once so prevalent in the WWII generation and the Reagan/Thatcher era. God knows we’ve been warned about how precious freedom is and easily it can be lost:

Nothing is more difficult, and therefore more precious, than to be able to decide. ~Napoleon Bonaparte

He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself. ~ Thomas Paine

We on this continent should never forget that men first crossed the Atlantic not to find soil for their ploughs but to secure liberty for their souls. ~ Robert J. McCracken

Freedom is the oxygen of the soul. ~ Moshe Dayan

Freedom has its life in the hearts, the actions, the spirit of men and so it must be daily earned and refreshed — else like a flower cut from its life-giving roots, it will wither and die. ~ Dwight D. Eisenhower

Are we in the West ready to let freedom die? Are we fully cognizant of the near and present danger that the determination of our enemy presents?

The editors of Investors Business Daily warn that the game plan being carried out by ISIS now was once articulated by none other than ” al-Qaida’s No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, in an October 2005 letter to the late al-Zarqawi Zawahiri”:

“The first stage: Expel the Americans from Iraq. The second stage: Establish an Islamic Authority … over as much territory as you can spread its power in Iraq … in order to fill the void stemming from the departure of he Americans. The third stage: Extend the jihad wave to the secular countries neighboring Iraq.”

Did Obama simply blunder into the plan when he turned away from Iraq calling it a “stupid war”. How about when he allowed the release of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the new leader of ISIS, from Camp Bucca in Iraq in 2009…was that another blunder? Al-Baghdadi’s last retort to the reservists from Long Island that had been guarding him, “I’ll see you guys in New York.”

The IBD article reminds us of another ominous reality:

ISIS has a lot of money now, looted from Iraqi banks. It’s also worth noting that Spanish authorities recently apprehended eight people who were part of a jihadist recruiting network led by former Gitmo detainee Lahcen Ikasrrien, who was arrested in Afghanistan in 2001.

The time we are living in is like the calm before a disaster. If we aren’t paying attention life is just another set of problems and pleasures. If we are paying attention there’s something onerous in the space causing low level apprehension.

What will mark the next big event? Where will it occur? If it’s more devastating than Boston…no, what if it’s bigger than 911? Might nuclear weapons be involved? We may not have to address these questions but somebody should. Is this thinking too dramatic or not dramatic enough? Do people think about it or care? And if disaster strikes again will the West muster the fortitude to eliminate the threat completely before we relax our resolve this time or will we simply allow the tyranny of our enemies wash over us?

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33 Responses to WAR: We Have It Whether We Want It or Don’t

  1. Libby says:

    Would you please not bore us with the pieties?

    I was deeply dissappointed in the O-man yesterday. Perhaps you missed it?

    He did say there was no military solution, but he also said that ISIS could not be allowed to prevail. Translation: We’re in.

    As we speak, U.S. forces are being deployed to “help” the ISF move ISIS out of Bahji and away from that refinery.

    I am disgusted.

  2. Tina says:

    Will you please not bore us with petty complaints!

    The O man has said a lot of things. In most cases he either lied or chose a path leading straight to failure.

    So what Obama said ISIS “could not be allowed to prevail?” His word is not respected by allies or enemies. And “not be allowed to prevail” is a throw away…might as well make it a slogan for all the good it does.

    I am also disgusted. America and the world desperately needs a good leader that inspires confidence. The void created over the last five years has had terrible consequences.

  3. Pie Guevara says:

    Frankly, I am astonished that Post Scripts forces Blame The Victim Libby to read Post Scripts.

    On another note — Boors are so easily bored.

    Anyone who believes anything Obama says is in for a big disappointment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg9m1F8B2_c

  4. Tina says:

    Anybody remember Ahmad Chalabi?

    If so the NY Sun has a tidbit worth a read.

    Chalabi in 2010 writing in the WSJ.

    More history here and here.

  5. Peggy says:

    Off topic.

    I just discovered a news channel on Dish called NEWSX. I’m watching “Ronald Reagan” right now and has several interesting programs scheduled for later today.

    It’s on #223, check it out.

  6. Peggy says:

    Did you all hear what ISIS found in old warehouses? Yup, Bush was right after all.

    ISIS In Iraq Find Saddam Hussein’s WMD Stockpiles Of Chemical Weapons… George W Bush Was Right?

    “The jihadist group bringing terror to Iraq overran a Saddam Hussein chemical weapons complex on Thursday, gaining access to disused stores of hundreds of tonnes of potentially deadly poisons including mustard gas and sarin…. Isis has shown ambitions to seize and use chemical weapons in Syria leading experts to warn last night that the group could turn to improvised weapons to carry out a deadly attack in Iraq.”

    Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, a former commander of Britain’s chemical weapons regiment, believes ISIS will not be able to build a fully functional WMD using Iraq’s chemical weapon stockpiles since they’re buried in concrete but they could still be dangerous:

    “It is doubtful that Isis have the expertise to use a fully functioning chemical munition but there are materials on site that could be used in an improvised explosive device. We have seen that Isis has used chemicals in explosions in Iraq before and has carried out experiments in Syria.”

    The State Department’s spokesperson Jen Psaki commented on the situation:

    “We remain concerned about the seizure of any military site by the ISIL. We do not believe that the complex contains CW materials of military value and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to safely move the materials.”

    Are you surprised that former President George W Bush may have been right about Iraq’s WMD programs created by Saddam Hussein?”

    Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1309825/isis-in-iraq-find-saddam-husseins-wmd-stockpiles-of-chemical-weapons-george-w-bush-was-right/#igaT6sCCgB77KAAW.99

    • Post Scripts says:

      Peggy, that is an interesting article and I appreciate you finding it for us. If it is 100% accurate, and we’re not sure it is, we’re still far from any real proof.

      There’s always been this speculation that Saddam moved his WMD’s to Syria, but never any hard evidence, just theories and hearsay. Until we can get people on the scene for independent verification and testing of this alleged stockpile we really just have more rumors. And getting people there to check out the story might not even be possible at this point, unless ISIS sees this alleged WMD stockpile as problem and wants us to deal with it.

      Right now at best what we have is probable cause for search warrant, but far from an arrest warrant, if you follow me? It’s absolutely worth pursuing to find out because this would be a game changer and re-write history. It also helps us determine how deep we ought to involve ourselves in this mess.

  7. Peggy says:

    Agree Jack, the information on these finds is just coming out. We don’t yet know how much of this stuff will be found or where.

    My concern is even though the reports are saying its potency has diminished over the years it still could be used by ISIS to harm people.

    Knowing this stuff was in the hands of one terrorist and now is in the hands of an even worst terrorist is chilling.

  8. Pie Guevara says:

    Re: Did Obama simply blunder into the plan when he turned away from Iraq calling it a “stupid war”

    I’ll be the first to admit that the Obama doctrine mystifies me. Not the domestic side of it, that is plain enough to see.

    Inept or a calculus of ineptness? It is hard to figure. Suffice it to say Obama is no world leader and his doctrine appears to be to destroy any semblance of world leadership by the United States.

  9. Libby says:

    Geez, Tina. Our Prezzy does exactly what you want, and it’s STILL not good enough.

    Makes a person think your antipathy is personal, rather than political.

  10. Tina says:

    Libby you have no idea what I want because you communicate with that caricature in your head rather than me.

  11. Tina says:

    Pie: “…his doctrine appears to be to destroy any semblance of world leadership by the United States.”

    Agreed! As I recall he announced as much when he said the rest of the world would have to step up and, more recently, shoulder the burden.

  12. Libby says:

    I’ve said it before, Peggy and her ilk are THE GREAT THREAT to this republic. They will believe ANYTHING that feeds their prejudices … without question. They are a mob just panting to be moblizied.

    Never mind ISIS … Peggy is terrifying.

  13. Chris says:

    Agreed, Libby.

  14. Peggy says:

    Thanks Libby, I’ll take your remarks as a complement.

    Time will tell if those warehouses did/do have deadly chemicals in them and if they do let’s hope ISIS doesn’t get the opportunity to use them. The attack on the Twin Towers will look like a dress rehearsal.

    You can now stick your head back into the sand and pretend ISIS is just like the nice family that lives next door to you.

  15. Pie Guevara says:

    Re 13 & 14 : Peggy terrifying? Never mind ISIS?

    Sheesh, what a couple of extreme dopes! That is so stupid as to be completely unremarkable coming from those two dorks.

  16. Peggy says:

    Agreed, Pie.

  17. Tina says:

    Naw…Libby and Chris are in cover mode. It’s substitutes for humiliation and shame which is what they should be feeling about now.

    Their leader, their party, anything under the leadership of their party turns to $#!*. I mean everything!

    All they have left is liberal application of rule #12.

  18. Libby says:

    “America and the world desperately needs a good leader that inspires confidence.”

    Oh, Tina, those saber-rattling days are over. You’re not going to get to have your Crusade, ever. The world is going to be a messy, messy place (it always has been, actually) … until you die. And it’s not likely your party will see the White House, ever again, really.

    You might need to consider your mental health and take up other interests. I would miss the site, but to proceed further into the realm of xenophobic paranoia … is that really a good idea?

  19. Crazy Pie Guevara says:

    Mindless, bat-s**t-crazy, extreme left wing goose steppers feel no humiliation nor shame. It is a “liberal” thing.

    They may well have just exclaimed “Yay ISIS! A reasonable counterpoint to the terrifying Peggy!”

    I am no longer surprised by these two idiots.

    By the way, Peggy …

    No, on that score George Bush was still likely wrong. But so were the rest who put credence in the best available intelligence at the time. Resulting evidence shows that at the launch of the war Saddam Hussein did not have an active chemical or biological weapons program. The ISIS recovered weapons are too old to be useful or dead. Saddam once had viable chemical and biological weapons program, would have likely pursued another, but did not actually have one at the time. My take is that if any WMD had been transferred to Syria those weapons would already be in the hands of ISIS and would have already been deployed in their invasion of Iraq.

    There were plenty of other reasons to go after Saddam besides the inaccurate WMD intelligence. A reading of the war powers joint resolution clears up any confusion on that score. (Except for the usual gang of “liberal” sfbs.) Anyone who bothers to educate him or her self knows that.

    Here we are dealing with willful ignoramuses here who are living out an intellectually bankrupt political agenda and failing mightily in the common sense department. Can you imagine the mindless swamp both Chris and Libby live in? I shudder to think of it.

    My biggest gripe with Bush is that he was ill advised on how to conduct the war and followed that bad advice. The “surge” should have been there on day one and would have prevented a protracted, costly war. People express (especially sfb liberals without a handle on reality) how they will “never forgive Bush” for this or that canard they spew. Therein lies my own disappointment. I will never forgive the Bush administration for so ineptly administering the war. I was shocked when we actually went to war but expected that folks in Washington had chosen the right course of action and would proceed accordingly. Once committed, I was no backstabber, despite my reservations, like politically motivated left wing Democrats.

    Nevetheless, I expected better prosecution of the war from our Commander-In-Chief and in that he was an utter failure, imho.

  20. Tina says:

    Libby I called for a leader not a sabre rattler but as long as you brought it up the guy you support, still remarkably, has induced a lot of pain, suffering, and sabre rattling and use through his one-we’ve-been-waiting-for dance:

    CNPublications:

    Between March 2011 and the end of April 2013 at least 92,901 people were killed in Syria, according to UN Assistant Secretary-General for Human Rights Ivan Simonovic. More than 6,500 of them were children. UN leader Ban Ki-moon said that since then “up to 100,000 people” have been killed.

    During 26 months of conflict Syria has seen the largest exodus in the past 20 years. The official number is nearly 1,8 million people now registered with the UN in countries around Syria. An average of 6,000 people a day fleeing the country, UN High Commissioner for Refugees Antonio Guterres said.

    “We have not seen a refugee outflow escalate at such a frightening rate since the Rwandan genocide almost 20 years ago,” Guterres said, referring to the 1994 events when more than two million Rwandans fled the mass executions of Hutus.

    Telegraph UK:

    The number of refugees and displaced people worldwide has hit a high not seen since World War II, the United Nations’ refugee agency has revealed. Over 50 million people were forced from their homes by the end of 2013, a rise of six million in just one year.

    Conflicts in Syria, South Sudan and the Central African Republic have driven up the number, but the figure is expected to rise even further as hundreds of thousands of people flee from their homes in Iraq.

    Marking World Refugee Day, the UNHCR said that there are now 51.2 million refugees, asylum-seekers and internally displaced people worldwide. If refugees made up a country, it would be the 26th largest in the world. …

    There are 16.7 million refugees, 1.2 million asylum seekers and 33.3 million “internally displaced persons” – people who had to flee their homes, but remain within a country.

    And it’s not likely your party will see the White House, ever again, really.”

    Like you have any viable candidates, not to mention a President with the lowest ever approval rating.

    You might consider communicating with other than the voices in your own head.

  21. Pie Guevara says:

    Well, the above sure turned into an extemporaneous mess. I shall attempt a clean up …

    By the way, Peggy …

    No, on that score George Bush was still likely wrong. But so were the rest who put credence in the best available intelligence at the time. Resulting evidence shows that at the launch of the war Saddam Hussein did not have an active chemical or biological weapons program. The ISIS recovered weapons are too old to be useful or were dead or dismantled. Saddam once had viable chemical and biological weapons program, would have likely pursued another, but did not actually have one at the time. My take is that if any WMD had been transferred to Syria those weapons would already be in the hands of ISIS and would have already been deployed in their invasion of Iraq.

    There were plenty of other reasons to go after Saddam besides the inaccurate WMD intelligence. A reading of the war powers joint resolution clears up any confusion on that score. (Except for the usual gang of “liberal” sfbs.) Anyone who bothers to educate him or her self knows that.

    Here we are dealing with willful ignoramuses who are living out an intellectually bankrupt political agenda and failing mightily in the common sense department. Can you imagine the mindless swamp both Chris and Libby live in? I shudder to think of it.

    My biggest gripe with Bush is that he was ill advised on how to conduct the war and followed that bad advice. The “surge” should have been there on day one and would have prevented a protracted, costly war. People express (especially sfb liberals without a handle on reality) how they will “never forgive Bush” for this or that canard they have a habit to spew. Therein lies my own disappointment. I will never forgive the Bush administration for so ineptly administering the war. I was shocked when we actually went to war but expected that folks in Washington had chosen the right course of action and would proceed accordingly. Once committed, I was no backstabber, despite my reservations, unlike politically motivated left wing Democrats.

    Nevertheless, I expected better prosecution of the war from our Commander-In-Chief and in that he was an utter failure, imho.

  22. Tina says:

    In my opinion Bush can be criticized for errors in judgement but not for his overall leadership performance. The man worked under incredible pressure and circumstance with opinions proffered from many sides and made decisions without excuse making and without blaming others. I would have liked to see him defend himself and his record to his enemies in the press as Reagan did so well.

    The radicals whose only purpose was to destroy him represented the other war he had to fight and he managed to do it with a measure of grace and dignity not seen since.

    His work in Africa is at least appreciated over there. Too bad the left is so petty and compromised that it can’t give credit where its due.

    Monday morning quarterbacking has never been my style. There are no perfect leaders nor perfectly executed wars. I’m disgusted that gains made have been squandered so badly.

    If Libby thinks because people are flawed and forever waring that the better solution is to ignore problems and hope they will go way, and if she can continue to support the guy who made a huge mess and then made it even worse, she’s welcome to it.

    The preaching from on high does get old.

  23. Pie Guevara says:

    The world is a messy messy place…

    Withdraw! Use no influence! Broker no deals! Make neither friends nor enemies and they will leave us alone! Screw trade agreements! To hell with international trade and business! Let the barbarians have their way! Give up! All is vanity! Let ISIS create a totalitarian theocracy, maul and murder the populace and set up a state to export terrorism! No big deal! Let Hitler have Europe! Let the Soviet Union have the world! Bow to Mao! Let morons like Libby rule the day!

    It is Peggy we should fear.

    Kibby, what the f**k is wrong with you? Were you dropped on your head as a baby or as an adult? Have you done this mess to yourself? If so, what drugs have you been using, I would like to know.

  24. Pie Guevara says:

    Just in case Kibby (a convenient typo I shall utilize as shorthand for Chris-Libby) didn’t know, it was not Peggy who executed the judge who sentenced Saddam Husein to death by hanging. It was not Peggy who has ordered thousands of Iraqis to lie down and be executed in the wake of their invasion.

    It is not Peggy who makes personal threats against New York City. It is not Peggy seeking to establish an Islamic terrorist state that forces women inside and butchers men on the street.

    Kibby, you dopes are way beyond the pale, and you don’t even have a clue how far.

  25. Peggy says:

    Pie, you and I are on the same page, I believe. I too wish we hadn’t gone to Iraq in the first place. But, based on the evidence presented at the time I won’t backstab or second guess the fact the Colin Powell went before the UN and argued for their support because he believed the information was accurate and the same for when Bush went to Congress for their approval, which was granted.

    What pisses me off is jerks like Libby and Chris acting like Bush went off on his own without all of those Democrats who voted for it too. They deny it now, but they sure supported going to war then.

    I still believe Powell is an honest and honorable man and would never have gone to the UN if he didn’t 100% believe the WMDs were there. We now know the informant was a liar, but completely believable back then.

    I too heard the chemicals were too old to be of any real threat. My concern is those idiots would/could still spread it to make people sick, while it wouldn’t be potent enough to kill.

    We’ll never know how much of that stuff there was, how much remains or where it even is. If they’ve buried it people may be discovering it for years to come.

    I didn’t want to be involved in Iraq in the first place and I sure don’t want us involved now. We’ve had enough of our soldiers die and spent more than we can afford on their civil war. This is where the UN needs to get involved and not expect us to carry the heavy load. Yes, the mass killing done my Saddam had to stop, as do the terrorist on the move now.

    We need another Colin Powell to go to the UN and get them to commit. Problem is we’ve got Kerry who knows even less about foreign affairs than Obama.

    We need someone like Reagan who took out Russia by showing our strengths and calling Gorbechav’s bluff instead of Obama’s constantly moving his red lines.

    Other countries are laughing at the US, and for good reason. They don’t believe they can count on us any more. We’ve lost all credibility and no longer the powerful nation we once were.

    Obama said he’d transform America, but first he had to destroy her before he could make her into the socialist style government he believes in. He’s just about completed the task. He has two more years and if Hillary wins the transformation will be completed.
    All he and Hillary need are the same low informed millennials to show up again. The same ones who can’t find jobs related to their education and are still living off of mom, dad and Uncle Sam.

    Anyway, I’ve rambled on and on and it’s late. Don’t know if any of this will make sense, but knowing Libby and Chris think I’m the one they need to fear is going to make for another good nights sleep.

    Good night.

  26. Chris says:

    Tina: “Like you have any viable candidates, not to mention a President with the lowest ever approval rating.”

    Where did you get the idea that Obama has the lowest ever approval rating, Tina? It’s true that his average so far is slightly lower than Bush’s–who received a 90% rating, the highest ever, ten days after 9/11–but it’s certainly not the lowest average recorded. Obama’s lowest so far has been 38%, but Bush’s lowest was 25%. Obama’s current rating is about 40%. So I’m not sure what metric you’re using to draw this conclusion.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_approval_rating

  27. Chris says:

    Peggy: “We now know the informant was a liar, but completely believable back then.”

    That’s not entirely true, Peggy. The administration had plenty of reason to doubt the informant at the time; he had already established a reputation as unreliable in the international community.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/17/curveball-doubts-cia-german-foreign

    I agree with you that those in the administration probably believed with all their hearts that Iraq had WMDs. But it’s because that’s what they desperately wanted to believe, not because it was the best intelligence available.

  28. Peggy says:

    Chris: “That’s not entirely true, Peggy. The administration had plenty of reason to doubt the informant at the time; he had already established a reputation as unreliable in the international community.”

    Not buying your argument because I honestly do not believe Colin Powell would have gone to the UN if he did not believe the WMDs existed.

    Yes, the guy had a bad reputation, but was also a con man and one smart enough to con Powell and a bunch of Democrats too.

    A major mistake was made and after reading the below I stand by my support of Powell even today.

    Colin Powell discusses the WMD ‘blot’ on his record:

    “In a forthcoming memoir, Colin Powell will describe the speech he gave at the U.N. justifying the U.S. invasion of Iraq on the basis of bogus evidence that Iraq possessed chemical and biological weapons as “a blot, a failure will always be attached to me.”

    As far as I can tell by the preview of the book published by Bloomberg, Powell does not suggest that he knew that was he was saying was false.

    “I am mad mostly at myself for not having smelled the problem,” Powell writes about his role. “My instincts failed me.”

    From the excerpt, I also can’t tell whether Powell discusses political pressure within the Bush administration that may have helped his instincts to fail. In the last days before the U.S. attack on and invasion of Iraq, U.N. weapons inspectors — who at that point were getting full cooperation from the Saddam Hussein government — were strongly signaling that they could find no evidence of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons stockpiles or ongoing programs to develop them. It’s impossible to say what might have happened if someone with Powell’s credentials and credibility had broken ranks with the administration’s push for war, but it’s possible the long, costly, unnecessary war could have been averted.

    Powell’s UN speech, part of the Bush administration’s public case for the U.S. invasion of Iraq, with its unsupported assertions of mobile Iraqi biological-warfare labs and a “sinister nexus” between Iraq and al-Qaeda terrorists, was based on “deeply flawed” evidence, Powell writes.

    “So why did no one stand up and speak out during the intense hours we worked on the speech?” Powell writes. “‘Some of these same analysts later wrote books claiming they were shocked that I have relied on such deeply flawed evidence.”

    While Powell returns to Iraq repeatedly in the book, he advises leaders to “try to get over failure quickly. Learn from it. Study how you contributed to it. If you are responsible, own up to it.”

    In some ways, this still raises question that it doesn’t answer, although perhaps the full book sheds more light. Powell still wants to share the blame with others who should have told him he was making a mistake.”

    http://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2012/05/colin-powell-discusses-wmd-blot-his-record

    I know Powell is a moderate Republican and an Obama supporter, but I’ve heard him speak enough times on this subject I believe he was duped and regrets his mistake. He is a man of honor in my book and always will be, because he’s admitted he made a mistake unlike others who blame others for their mistakes or take responsibility for them.

    Contrary to the often repeated statement the war in Iraq was Bush’s fault Democrats in the Senate and Republicans in the House share equally with the decision and responsibility.

    Iraq: The Democrats’ War:

    The ongoing presence of over 50,000 US troops, many thousands of civilian employees and tens of thousands of US-backed mercenaries raises serious questions over the significance of the partial withdrawal of US forces from Iraq. The August 31 deadline marking the “end of US combat operations in Iraq” is not as real or significant a milestone as President Obama implied in his speech. Indeed, hearing for the umpteenth time that the US has “turned a corner” in Iraq, it makes one think that the country must be some kind of dodecahedron.

    Nevertheless, with all the attention on the supposed withdrawal of US combat forces, it is important to acknowledge the forces that got us into this tragic conflict in the first place.

    It was not just George W. Bush.

    Had a majority of either the Republican-controlled House or the Democratic-controlled Senate voted against the resolution authorizing the invasion or had they passed an alternative resolution conditioning such authority on the approval of the use of force from the United Nations Security Council, all the tragic events that have unfolded as a consequence of the March 2003 invasion would have never taken place.

    The responsibility for the deaths of over 4,400 American soldiers, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, the waste of nearly one trillion dollars of our national treasury and the rise of terrorism and Islamist extremism that has come as a result of the US invasion and occupation of Iraq rests as much in the hands of the members in Congress who authorized the invasion as it does with the administration that requested the lawmakers’ approval. Indeed, the October 2002 resolution authorizing the invasion had the support of the majority of Democratic senators, as well as the support of the Democratic Party leadership in both the House and the Senate.

    On this and other web sites – as well as in many scores of policy reports, newspaper articles, academic journals, and other sources – the tragic consequences of a US invasion of Iraq and a refutation of falsehoods being put forward by the Bush administration to justify it were made available to every member of the House and Senate (see, for example, “The Case Against a War with Iraq”). The 2002 vote authorizing the invasion was not like the vote on the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin resolution on the use of force against North Vietnam, for which Congress had no time for hearings or debate and for which most of those supporting it (mistakenly) thought they were simply authorizing limited short-term retaliatory strikes in response to a specific series of alleged incidents. In contrast, with regard to the resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq, Congress had many months to investigate and debate the administration’s claims that Iraq was a threat as well as the likely implications of a US invasion; members of Congress also fully recognized that the resolution authorized a full-scale invasion of a sovereign nation and a subsequent military occupation for an indefinite period.”

    http://www.truth-out.org/archive/component/k2/item/91706:iraq-the-democrats-war

    I don’t agree with you “they desperately wanted to believe” WMDs existed. Based on the facts mention in the above article I think they believed the WMDs did exist. I find it hard to believe so many would have voted to go to war without being convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that they did.

  29. Chris says:

    Peggy, I agree with you about Colin Powell. By all appearances he seems to feel like he was deceived. I also agree that the Democrats in Congress share some of the blame but it should be noted that our current president was one of the few voices of opposition to the Iraq War during that time, putting him squarely on the right side of history. However, as you and Tina have made very clear, the buck stops with the presidency, so the man most culpable for launching a war based on faulty intelligence is George W. Bush. It is clear that “reasonable doubt” did exist at the time, but the push for war was stronger than reason. They believed because they wanted to believe.

  30. Peggy says:

    Glad to see you say, “the buck stops with the presidency,” and, agree with us. So the current president, which happens to be a Democrat will also be responsible for EVERYTHING that took place during his term.

    I’m frankly sick and tired of hearing it’s the Republican’s fault for everything that’s happened since Obama took office. The Democrats were even in control of Congress for two years. Reid is sitting on jobs bills and won’t allow Republicans to present a single amendment.

    Which brings us to today’s failing economy report of a 2.9 decline. Obama get’s 100% credit for it too. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

    Applying the same standards, you presented above, to both presidents please don’t argue that the weather had anything to do with Obama’s economy decline since the false WMD information isn’t a consideration for Bush.

    Economy in freefall? 1Q revision shows shrinkage of 2.9%:

    “America’s economy shrank at a drastic 2.9 percent annual rate in the first quarter, a far more alarming picture than ones painted in two previous government estimates — including one that actually claimed modest growth.

    The new figure released Wednesday by the Commerce Department is nearly three times lower than last month’s preliminary estimate of 1 percent shrinkage — at the time the worst three-month performance since 2009 — and far greater than the 0.1 percent growth estimate in April. The sluggish economy’s woes have been widely attributed to an unusually cold winter, but the latest figure — the biggest difference between second and third estimates since 1976 — could indicate far greater problems.”

    “It’s clear the White House doesn’t know which way is up, just two months ago bragging that ObamaCare was helping the economy and now we’re seeing the worst economic report since the low point of the recession in 2009,” said RNC Chairman Reince Priebus. “The Republican House has sent Harry Reid and Democrats in the Senate dozens of bills to help jump-start our economy and it’s time they stop standing in the way.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/25/economy-in-freefall-1q-revision-shows-shrinkage-2/

    Articles like this give me hope for my grandkids.

    10 Ways Obama Lost Millennials:

    “Since the catastrophic, amateur and pathetic implementation of Obamacare, millennials have come to realize that the man who proclaimed himself their savior is nothing more than another cheap politician.

    President Barack Obama, his campaign, and Democrats in general have successfully been able to swindle millennials out of their votes and support, but like all pyramid schemes it must eventually crumble. A wise woman once said, “people always announce their complete triumph a moment before their crushing defeat.”

    In November 2012, Democrats shouted from the rooftops that liberal government was here to stay and conservatives better accept it and fall in line. But then the millennials’ self-proclaimed messiah – I mean president – started implementing his signature liberal policy. Healthcare.gov was shortly launched and simultaneously deteriorated thanks to the “hard work” of the theoreticians in the Obama Administration.

    Millennials have had enough of this hypocriscy.

    Hypocrisy

    The double standard set forth by the president and his administration has reached an all time high for a politician. They exempted themselves from Obamacare and issue lawless executive orders to bypass Congress. Obama has repeatedly brought Air Force 1, four escort jets, 25 squad cars, and a mile long motorcade to places like University of California Irvine to speak on how humans are the cause and cure for global warming. Millennials have had enough of this hypocriscy.

    It is great to have passion and the capability to inspire through speeches but in politics, at the end of the day, scoring is all that matters. The president was up in 2008 and close to a tie in 2012; currently he is losing badly when it comes to millennials and their trust. Today just 21 percent of millennials believe the country is on the right track and 52 percent disapprove of Obama’s overall job performance.

    The fact is the president and his amateur administration have lost millennials, not only for themselves, but for Democrats in general.”

    http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/ten-ways-obama-lost-millennials/

  31. Tina says:

    Peggy I agree with you that the source was believable at the time since every single intelligence agency indicated the weapons were there and the former President, Bill Clinton, had made very strong statements attesting to the “fact”…as did several other Democrats from the Clinton administration as well as Democrats in Congress. (At least they did as long as it suited their political ambitions.)

    I even remember Democrats lamenting that they were not in power when 911 happened because of the political advantage they thought would be gained (Geez they can be slimy).

    In my opinion Powell was more liberal that conservative and as soon as the going got rough he turned his back on the situation looking out for himself first.

    If our press had any loyalty to our country, or integrity regarding their profession, Powell would not have had to distance himself under this so-called “lie” because the complete truth of the matter would have been told. Instead the Bush Lied people Died narrative was swiftly launched and the rest is, as they say, part of the historical narrative. Propaganda works.

    The people can handle our nation getting something wrong if they are given the facts but its difficult for them to remain informed or strong when the nations major news outlets are rooting for the Republican President to fail in order to politically promote Democrats.

    Democrats and their supporters are a phony, disloyal, partisan bunch. It’s truly pathetic.

    George never blamed anyone or anything else; the buck always stopped at his desk. Can’t say the same for the current President or any of his supporters.

    And let us not forget that the “forces” that got us into this conflict are religious fanatics waging a holy war on us and our allies in the free world and corrupt leaders…like Saddam Hussein (and his horrid sons) who not only perpetrated crimes and abuses on his own people but was a material supporter of terrorist organizations and was acting in defiance of UN resolutions and the cease fire agreement he signed.

    Is this a time to play political games or is it a very sober time to face reality and the unfortunate circumstances that we face and probably will face for a long time?

    We had a fairly good handle on the problem at the end of Bush’s term. We had made significant progress toward defeating this enemy. since it cost us dearly I think we owed it to those that have given the most to face it, as they have faced it, without all the political bs.

    (It’s obvious to me that Chris believes what he wants to believe.)

  32. Peggy says:

    Tina, our system of governance isn’t perfect, but it’s better than what other countries have. I wish there was some easy solution like term limits that would reign in the flip-flopper politicians and the biased media, but I’m sure those who want to undermine it will find a way.

    I do think term limits would be an improvement over what we have, but not a fix for the media problem. The media will always be the free press for the Dems since most reporters are graduates of our liberal soaked educational system.

    Yes, Chris believes what he wants because it’s what he learned. He hasn’t lived in the real world long enough to see what the socialist agenda will do to him. Just look at all of the liberals in the media who have become conservatives. They wake up when they realize how much of their hard earnings is being taken from them to support things they don’t agree with. I can’t think of a single conservative who has become a liberal.

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