by Jack
In law enforcement you always have situations that are going to escalate beyond one or two cop’s ability to control. It’s rare, but it happens. It could be angry drunks falling out the front door after a big bar fight, biker gangs fighting over a turf or it could simply be 100 (black) teens at a pool party clashing with some of the local white neighbors over offensive lyrics in rap music.
In the majority of such crowd violence the prudent course of action is to take a step back and assess the situation until you have adequate resources to handle the situation. This is emotionally tough to do, because it runs against a cops sense of duty. You’ve got people in the crowd screaming and inciting to riot and worse, and here you are…stepping back? Doesn’t seem right. Again any number of things could be happening simultaneously and amid a lot of screaming and confusion. Unless you’re very emotionally prepared to handle this, you can get caught up in the moment.
First thing to remember is (as a cop), you’re not superman. You can’t start tossing the bad guys in all directions until the danger is over. Doesn’t work that way in real life, although sometimes the public expects you to try. This is why prudence is the best course of action. You remain calm, you observe 360 degrees and get on the radio to advise responding officers how to deploy. This is probably the best you can do until backup arrives in force.
As the first officer at the scene, your job is not to place yourself in a situation you can’t control. If its a large, angry crowd, you might be overwhelmed and possibly lose control of your weapon or become injured. Doing either won’t help anybody, and it could make matters worse. Which is why its a good idea to take it slow and by the numbers.
Your first job is to identify the people causing the problem and direct your responding units.
If the situation is extremely violent and deteriorating so quickly that some sort of drastic action must be taken in order to protect the public safety or yourself from great bodily harm or death, then of course, delaying is not an option. However, this is so rare that it’s not likely to come up in a lifetime and thank God, because it’s just as rare that it’s all going to work out like you wanted. Deadly force – deadly consequences.
The last thing an officer should do is try to out shout an angry crowd, or act like a bad-ass, using profanity, trying to intimidate the crowd into compliance. This may have worked with Joe Dirtbag in the last arrest you made, but it’s generally a bad tactic with a large group of people, especially if there are racial overtones.
It’s funny they don’t teach this in the police academy – they should.
Right now with racial sensitivities are running high across America because of President Divider. A cool headed, calm-in-the-face-of- danger kind of cop is what we need. We don’t need a cop that is as amped up as the hysterical crowd he/she is facing!
Cops are increasingly coming under fire for misconduct or the perception of misconduct, usually due to a citizen’s cell phone video. But, whether a video is present or not, that should never determine how the cop behaves. There’s a right way and there’s a whole lot of wrong ways and even the right way can look bad on video – but, not much you can do about that, except try to explain the facts later during an internal affairs investigation. (Anyone here still want to be a cop?)
(Washington Post) Jun 7 2015 – The host of a Texas pool party that led to the suspension of a police officer says things took a turn for the violent when a neighbor began hurling racial slurs and insults at party-goers.
A woman identified as Tatiana Rhodes, 19, said that she and some friends had organized and were enjoying the party at the Craig Ranch North Community Pool on June 5 when the conflict with a white neighbor broke out.
“This lady was saying racial slurs to some friends that came to the cookout. She was saying such things as ‘black effer’ and ‘that’s why you live in Section 8 homes,’ ” Rhodes told E. Johnson IV, a photographer who recorded the conversation and uploaded it online.
More insults were traded. One neighbor said “go back to your Section 8 home,” Rhodes said, referring to a form of federal housing assistance for low-income people.
Then, according to Rhodes, who is black, a white neighbor “came up to me and smacked me in my face.”
“That’s when both of the women attacked me,” the teen said.
(End of excerpt)
Originally, this was a simple disturbance of the peace call, and now look what we have! What a mess. Won’t be long before Rev. Sharpton shows up.
On this video you will see a veteran cop with his adrenalin running wide open. He’s chasing people right and left. He’s falling down and running around trying to be all places at once. Finally we see him wresting with a 14 year black girl. When the two black male teens show up, they appear to be trying to maneuver behind the officer. The cop obviously feels threatened and he gets up and draws his gun and points it at the pair and they run off. But, the question here is, did he react with more force than was prudent or was he legitimately trying to regain some sense of control by the [display] of deadly force, to scare away a potential threat? It’s one of the reasons cops carry guns, right?
What is not in question is what the two black males were doing. They were wrong, they were being stupid and they were deliberately positioning themselves to interfer with an officer. Given the emotional situation, one could reasonably think they meant to harm the officer. But, whatever they were trying to do ended when the officer pulled his firearm and they ran away.
Had those two teens not retreated, or had one of them swung at the officer, I have no doubt one or both of them would be dead right now.
There’s plenty of blame to go around from what I saw. Dozens of people created an ugly incident and continued to do dumb things when they should have been listening and cooperating with the police, not obstructing them.
There were very few purely innocent people around when the video was being filmed. However, I suspect the worst part is yet to come. Protests are being organized as we speak and this is being turned into a race incident. Look at what I found pasted on Google’s search page (see above). How does that get on Google?? Now the race baiters come out. Google has some explaining to do about this KKK stuff.
Google link. Look at what I found during my search!
One, ONE! One cop was a bit aggressive trying to stop any escalation of violence. He did nothing wrong. He endangered no one. He shut it down.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4284446539001/witness-describes-controversial-mckinney-pool-party-arrest/?#sp=show-clips
The party organizers chose to ignore the rules governing use of the pool area for private parties. Social media “advertising” by party organizers ensured that party crashers came in droves. Irresponsible behavior by the two women who threw this party created the perfect atmosphere for trouble. We have no mechanism for holding them accountable but we sure do rush to judgement to blame the cops when such events escalate into riots or violence.
Too many Americans are unable to think rationally about such things. Too many American are willing to excuse wrong or bad behavior. Too many Americans are eager to place blame on police officers, often without evidence, out of emotional attitudes. Too many politicians and activists use events like this to further an agenda.
The expectation that we can put an end to all of this dysfunction seems delusional but that’s exactly what must happen if we are ever to have a civil society.
The hired DJ had no right to invite his friends. The kids that were having the party did not. DJ tweeted.
Next the person who was shouting racial slurs is a bigot and caused a ruckus. Unacceptable.
Mr Starsky and Hutch is the perfect example of how not to handle the situation. He has acted this way more than once. People are coming forward. He is not fit to be a peace officer. He frisked a man for a broken tail light even.
That was a 14 year old female in a bathing suit. That was assault on her. She is a child. She was not armed and dangerous.
The teenage boys were not thinking. They saw a girl being accosted by a thug and acted. Not the smartest.
There was no dangerous situation. The fight was over when the cops arrived. They handcuffed a young white girl when she walked up to them saying they had the wrong people and saw what happened. After handcuffed they did not even get answers.
Bottom line that idiot who barrel rolled like he was in a movie caused more harm than good and needs to be fired. He s not police material.
Yet Adult bikers can have a shoot out in Waco and Texas PD treat them like royalty.
White college kids burn cars ect after sports games and they are just kids.
That fire arm coming out of holster and being pointed was unnecessarily and disgusting.
What happened to brave sensible men who can read a simple teenage situation in a nice neighborhood?
The thugs in that video are in uniform. Period. And the Adult just standing there? The white kid filming was ignored as well because Starskey and Hutch show was on!
Dewey…I had to stop reading your comments at this part, “That was a 14 year old female in a bathing suit. That was assault on her. She is a child. She was not armed and dangerous.” No Dewey. The officer had a right to place her under arrest and she physically resisted. She screwed up.
The detention was perfectly lawful and very common; police do it a 1000 times a day.
Resisting the arrest was not smart. Regardless why she was being detained, she only made matters worse by struggling with the officer. She was lucky the officer decided to release her to the custody of her parents, after she calmed down, however at the time the girl was out of control. She was hysterical and her actions contributed to a very volatile situation.
She was detained because she was causing a disturbance and interfering with the officer in the performance of his duty. Dewey, I don’t expect you to know much about police work, but I do expect you to use a little restraint before condemning the officer for restraining the 14 year old, that was not a problem. She absolutely, 100%, caused her rough handling by resisting. The only thing I could see that was subject to questioning was the officer pulling his gun and that part had some justification. I would like to know more before saying he was wrong.
DO NOT POST – Off topic.
Jack, have you heard about this? You may want to check it out before posting any more articles about guns.
NRA: Obama State Dept. seeks to censor online speech related to firearms:
http://www.examiner.com/article/nra-obama-state-dept-seeks-to-censor-online-speech-related-to-firearms
Re Dewey: “The thugs in that video are in uniform. Period.”
Idiot.
Thankfully Dewey will never even qualify to be a security guard at a strip mall.
Geez Pie, LOL…
Jack: “The last thing an officer should do is try to out shout an angry crowd, or act like a bad-ass, using profanity, trying to intimidate the crowd into compliance. This may have worked with Joe Dirtbag in the last arrest you made, but it’s generally a bad tactic with a large group of people, especially if there are racial overtones.
It’s funny they don’t teach this in the police academy – they should.”
Wait–are you saying they don’t teach officers how to stay calm in a crowd at the police academy? That can’t possibly be true. If it is, then police departments are in even more dire need of better training than I previously thought.
“The officer had a right to place her under arrest and she physically resisted. She screwed up…She absolutely, 100%, caused her rough handling by resisting.”
None of this is correct.
I don’t know what video you are watching, but here is the original footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEVzKFteR4E
As you can see, at around 2:25 the officer orders a group of young black girls to leave. The girls comply; although they give him plenty of lip (well deserved in my opinion–I’ll explain in a moment), they split off into two directions and walk away.
Then, he changes his mind.
He goes after one of the groups of girls, and singles out one for some reason. They are blocked for a moment, but the next time we see the officer and the girl he is violently dragging her and wrestles her to the ground. The girl is crying hysterically and begins to resist, but only after being manhandled by the officer after she obeyed his direct order. Several of the girls friends rush to the girls’ aid after seeing the violent way he is treating her. The cop pulls a gun on two teenage boys that approached him quickly, armed with nothing but a couple of shirts. He comes back to the girl, who is sitting on the ground, and then yells “Get your ass on the ground like I said,” to the girl who is on the ground like he said. He then picks her up by the arm for no apparent reason other than to throw her around some more, and orders her to lie down on her face. He then slams her head to the ground once. She puts her face up. He slams her head to the ground again.
Again, I don’t know what you saw. I’m hoping you chose to comment without watching the entire video. Because what I saw assault. What I saw was disgusting. And it’s disgusting that so many people are defending such an egregious instance of unnecessary, unprovoked police brutality on yet another black minor.
And that doesn’t even get into the behavior of the officer beforehand. At the beginning of the video, he’s running and screaming like he’s about to stop a bomb from going off, while other officers are standing calmly talking to some of the teenagers. He even interferes with some of the other officers, shouting at the kids they are talking to and ordering them on the ground! His behavior was violent, unprofessional, and unhinged.
Now of course being a police officer is a tough job. I couldn’t do it. But that’s why I don’t do it. This guy apparently can’t handle it either. This was a very low-stress, low-stakes situation by police standards. There was no violence, until this officer started the violence. If he can’t handle something like this without turning into a raving, violent lunatic, he cannot handle police work. His job is to de-escalate situations, and in this case he clearly escalated them.
The officer is the one who came close to inciting a riot. The kids who rushed him were acting on instinct to protect their friend. You can’t expect that natural human instinct to just disappear because the person attacking said friend happens to be wearing a badge. The notion that everything this guy is a-ok just because he is an agent of the law is absurd and, dare I say it, anti-American.
This nation was founded on the principle that unjust, abusive authority should not be followed blindly, and should in fact be actively fought against. This officer was acting with unjust, abusive authority. He acted like the badge gave him the right to assault a kid who was following his orders, just because she talked back to him. Well, I might have talked back to him too. Only difference is, I probably wouldn’t have gotten beat up for it.
Dewey is completely right in this situation. The officer was completely wrong.
Chris, lets see how it works out, we might be closer in agreement than you think. The cop was not unhinged, (you’re being too dramatic) but he was acting a little amped up and he was losing control, ok? We can agree with that. The main thing that I saw that was truly questionable drawing the service pistol. Overall this call wasn’t racist, but it could have been handled better.
I will go back and review the video you supplied and see if there is more information in the link you provided.
Chris I did not post this. I with-held the “comment” because Peggy wanted me to look into it, nobody is believing this, we’re investigating it. That’s what I was doing, so calm down, it was not intended to be viewed publically.
Jack: “Chris, lets see how it works out, we might be closer in agreement than you think.”
It seemed that way in the beginning of the article when you criticized the officer’s actions, but then you seemed to be defending him later on and saying the 14-year-old girl brought her assault on herself, which I take serious objection to. I hope after reviewing the video you will see that she was the victim in this situation.
“The cop was not unhinged, (you’re being too dramatic)”
I think the cop was being too dramatic. There was no need for him to behave this way.
“Overall this call wasn’t racist, but it could have been handled better.”
I’m not sure how it’s possible to conclude 100% whether or not this was racist, unless one had a window into an alternate universe where a group of white kids did the same thing to see if this cop behaved the exact same way with them. I do think it’s more than coincidental that this kind of thing happens more often with blacks kids than white kids, and I think that’s part of a systemic racist trend, even if the individual cops involved are no more racist than most people.
So the story is out.
The cop resigned. The Chief did not condone his actions. All other officers acted appropriately.
The kid in the blue Tee Shirt saw the girl was being manhandled. He was telling her he was going to call the mom. He was telling the officer he was hurting her.
His friend bumped into him, he slipped and immediately distanced himself from the officer after slipping. Watch the video again. It is all there.
After he distanced himself by backing up the officer looked him in the eye and pulled his gun. He was scared and ran. The other officers chased him.
He thought it was the scary officer chasing him. When he saw it was other officers he stopped and complied. All charges are dropped as the video proves this.
No suit from him will be sought against the police. They all learned a lesson. They were invited to the party. They did nothing wrong.
The bad cop is gone and the police want to heal the situation.
CASE CLOSED.
The question remains if there were no video and they told the truth would they have been believed? Or would some people make it into a career criminal thugs and wonderful cop case?
That guy had no business being a cop.
BTW we do have more like this guy in our forces. We need to clean up our justice system. Right now an officer can not point out another who repeatedly abuses power.
We need to figure this out and if it requires a citizens oversight committee than so be it. We should know who we are paying to protect and serve.
And the last thing we want is a privatized police force using forfeiture law to balance the budget and/or buy military toys turning the forces into self governed FBI like agencies.
We have a national Guard for domestic military protection. Police are a back up and should militarize against real threats not citizens even during protest..
This country was built on a protest. Now about that domestic spying! Those are real issues.
This mom is right!
This Mom’s Message About the McKinney Incident Is One You NEED to Hear:
http://www.youngcons.com/this-moms-message-about-the-mckinney-incident-is-one-you-need-to-hear/
As usual the ugly, left-wing harpy twins are wrong, but their blanket trashing police and slur mongering is part and parcel of being left-wing knee-jerks (Yes, left-wing and knee-jerk is being redundant.) So no surprises here.
There was ONE cop who lost his cool, but no one was injured. He has now resigned under criticism from the police chief.
Calling the police in that video “thugs” is just the sort of slur mongering I have come to expect from pond scum like Dewey and Chris, and they are the worst sort.
Let there be no doubt, the lunatic left has a war on police as goose steppers Dewey and Chris demonstrate here. Thank goodness these two will never wear anything more than a badge of shame.
McKinney Chief of Police
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4286615153001/officer-involved-in-texas-pool-incident-resigns/?#sp=show-clips
The officer was wrong. He has quit. His chief has stated that was bad technique.
Also the adult white woman who made the racist slurs to the child and then slapped her for talking back is wrong.
Policing is a dangerous profession. It takes a well rounded intelligent person to do it properly.
When you have grandstanding and abuse by an officer you are looking for a more serious problem later.
If an officer even treated my child like that I would sue him and run him out of town.
The incident is settled, the bad cop is gone. Everybody in that situation learned a bit except for the bigots who will continue to lead shallow lives.
Bill O’Reilly — The War On Cops
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4286601354001/the-war-on-cops/?playlist_id=trending#sp=show-clips
My son was there and this is what he told me:
1. The rules of pool use limit the size to no more than 20, but special consideration was given to the hosts because of the security guard.
2. The music was loud, too loud and it was offensive with a lot of profanity and not suitable for young children. He didn’t see no fighting, but it could have happened with so many people being there.
3. The DJ violated his orders and invited party crashers.
4. The size of this crowd was a bout 120 and they were taking over everything and this was disrespectful to other pool users and it was intimidating to parents with young children. Some people choose to leave because they saw where this was all heading.
5. When the police showed up the crowd was already angry and some verbal disputes had broken out between long time residents and the new pool users.
6. A number of the black teens were obnoxious and hostile toward the officer just like they were to the residents.
7. The police officer told the hosts they had to break it up and send the guests home. They wanted to argue with the police and this made matters worse and others in the crowd joined in. They were being disrespectful, but some did leave and others felt the cops had no right to shut down the party.
8. One thing leads to another and you all saw the video. If the crowd had been more respectful and not as threatening there would’nt have been no problem. The police officer did the best he knew how under the circumstances.
It is not right that a 10 year veteran police officer lost his job over something was not a big deal.
May be he should have had some disciplinary action or something, but death threats against his family and bascially being thrown under the bus by his Chief, now that was just plain wrong. He was trying to do his duty.
We better be nicer to the police or we’re going to have bigger troubles. I see them having a recuiting problem already.
P>S. the examiner is not reliable.
It’s been 6 years and Obama ain’t come for the guns and locked everyone up in Fema Camps yet. Still waiting for Texas to be locked up in Walmart Basements.
CIA feeds a bunch of this crap. Alex Jones, Beck and the rest are shrills for CIA, and anybody who pays them.
We have problems and presidents are just puppets anymore. We need to start prosecuting the banksters and corps.
Remember they all signed into law mandatory bank bailouts for this next eminent crash. No bubble yet but we can not raise the fed rates because of the stock buybacks scamming now.
Following media makes sheeple. Go to public records.
Excerpt from Bill O’Reilly’s “The War On Cops”
“Talking Points sees big trouble on the horizon. Trouble that is being fueled by hysterical media. Anti-police zealots are given wide latitude to spew their hatred and irresponsible raving. That kind of rhetoric sinks in.
Finally and this is only my opinion, the McKinney police officer who was suspended should not, should not have drawn his firearm. He was not in any danger and neither was any civilian. He simply overreacted. And in doing so, made this an international story.
But cops are human, too. And in the heat of conflict, bad things are going to happen. Every decent person should understand that.”
War On Cops Related …
Left-wing rag The Guardian trashes NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton —
NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton says it’s hard to hire black cops because too many have criminal histories
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nypd-tough-time-hiring-black-cops-bill-bratton-article-1.2252202
Texas Police Officer Shot in Back Following Traffic Stop
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/09/texas-police-officer-shot-in-back-following-traffic-stop/
Armed Citizen Saves Officer Under Attack In Oklahoma City
http://bearingarms.com/armed-citizen-saves-officer-attack-oklahoma-city/
Flash Back
Police under attack as Baltimore is destroyed,20 officers injured during riots
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4203013812001/police-under-attack-as-baltimore-is-destroyed/?#sp=show-clips
Dewey: “The question remains if there were no video and they told the truth would they have been believed? Or would some people make it into a career criminal thugs and wonderful cop case?”
There was a video in this case and some people here are STILL doing exactly that. So yeah, the reaction from the conservative blogosphere would be even worse if there was no video.
BTW, I can still see Peggy’s comment from earlier, even though it was apparently supposed to be withheld.
Okay, thx Chris, I removed it again. Somebody keeps posting it.
#12 Chris: “I do think it’s more than coincidental that this kind of thing happens more often with blacks kids than white kids, and I think that’s part of a systemic racist trend, even if the individual cops involved are no more racist than most people.”
I agree with the mom whose video I posted above. I don’t believe this to be a racist issue, from what I saw in the video. I do believe it was a bunch of kids who have not been taught how to behave when told to do so by an adult with authority.
Based on the information below there are far too many kids being raised without an authorative father figure to learn from.
The Consequences of Fatherlessness:
“Some fathering advocates would say that almost every social ill faced by America’s children is related to fatherlessness. Six are noted here. (Also see related fatherlessness epidemic infographic)
As supported by the data below, children from fatherless homes are more likely to be poor, become involved in drug and alcohol abuse, drop out of school, and suffer from health and emotional problems. Boys are more likely to become involved in crime, and girls are more likely to become pregnant as teens.”
http://www.fathers.com/statistics-and-research/the-consequences-of-fatherlessness/
U.S. Fatherless Statistics:
http://fatherhoodfactor.com/us-fatherless-statistics/
I agree with Ann Coulter, the McKinney incident is another blown out of proportion distraction circus. IMMIGRATION — HEY, LOOK! A COP YELLING AT A BLACK GIRL IN A BIKINI!
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2015-06-10.html
Re #22 Chris :
Dewey: “The question remains if there were no video and they told the truth would they have been believed? Or would some people make it into a career criminal thugs and wonderful cop case?”
There was a video in this case and some people here are STILL doing exactly that. So yeah, the reaction from the conservative blogosphere would be even worse if there was no video.
You two really are a couple of jerks.
We have a policing problem
Stop trying to explain it away please and lets fix it
Salinas CA Police do not know how to apprehend a suspect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=13&v=bYlcAkv5Sx8
long beach CA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=52&v=XDJhcT3jVu0
Chico is a small town there is a whole lot going on out in the rest of the world. Google police beatings on youtube.
We have cameras now and the jig is up. This has been going on for a long long time.
I challenge everyone to produce video of cops, black or white, dealing with the white population in similar situations.
I challenge everyone to produce video showing what happens when blacks or whites cooperate fully with police officers.
If produced, I have a feeling that lefty attitudes and presumptions would melt away like a cube of butter in the summer sun.
The radical left is always looking for a new grievance to exploit and they always jump out in front in an attempt to control the narrative. This tactic worked well when the big lefty alphabet channels/stations had a monopoly. Not so much now.
Denial of any responsibility on the part of unruly mobs, criminals, and defiant thugs is an adolescent trait. The now very radical Democrat Party is made up of a bunch of adolescents with too much power and influence.
Asked sarcastically, “Where do we go to get our civil constitutional nation back?”
None of this would have happened had those at the party behaved civilly with respect for others. Once trouble did break out co-operation with police officers would also have resulted in a different result.
I challenge everyone to produce video of cops, black or white, dealing with the white population in similar situations.
I challenge everyone to produce video showing what happens when blacks or whites cooperate fully with police officers.
If produced, I have a feeling that lefty attitudes and presumptions would melt away like a cube of butter in the summer sun.
The radical left is always looking for a new grievance to exploit and they always jump out in front in an attempt to control the narrative. This tactic worked well when the big lefty alphabet channels/stations had a monopoly. Not so much now.
Denial of any responsibility on the part of unruly mobs, criminals, and defiant thugs is an adolescent trait. The now very radical Democrat Party is made up of a bunch of adolescents with too much power and influence.
Asked sarcastically, “Where do we go to get our civil constitutional nation back?”
None of this would have happened had those at the party behaved civilly with respect for others. Once trouble did break out co-operation with police officers would also have resulted in a different result.
Asked with sarcasm, “Where do we go to get our civil nation back?”
Wow, this is unreal. A principal got fired for expressing his opinion publicly.
Principal Fired for Defending Cop at Center of McKinney Incident — Here Are the Three Sentences He Posted Online:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/06/10/principal-fired-for-defending-cop-at-center-of-mckinney-incident-here-are-the-three-sentences-he-posted-online/
This reminds me of this poem by Martin Niemöller.
“First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392
That was completely wrong and they should be ashamed for firing that man.
What they did was un-American, an offense against free speech.
McKinney, Texas Ref Post 18:
If all the facts in this attached link are true, it supports the contributor comments in post 18 outline of event.
Typical how NOT all the facts get broadcasted. But that’s a Liberal stir the s$%t thing into something it isn’t it…..
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/08/the-full-story-of-the-mckinney-texas-pool-mob-inside-the-craig-ranch-subdivision
Peggy’s post was a glimmer of light that there still are Parents role in raising children into responsible adults, and not just let them run free to become idle or just raise hell.
But then a person like myself from a “party of personal responsibility” can understand the need to do so.
And Tina (in post 28 and 29) Yes you are right, that is needed these days for the benefit of all America.
RikersIsland: “If the crowd had been more respectful and not as threatening there would’nt have been no problem. The police officer did the best he knew how under the circumstances.”
I am constantly amazed that so many people seem to have higher standards of behavior for untrained civilians than they do of trained police officers. Even if everything you said about the “party crashers” is correct, that STILL would not justify this officer’s actions.
“The police officer did the best he knew how under the circumstances.”
If this is the best the police officer knew how to do under the circumstances, he is a crap police officer. Police officers face far more dire circumstances than these, and typically they do not behave this way. (Yes, I am defending most police officers here, so Pie can stuff the strawmen.)
“It is not right that a 10 year veteran police officer lost his job over something was not a big deal.”
It is not right that you do not see the assault of a 14 year old girl who was complying with orders to be a big deal.
Peggy: “I agree with the mom whose video I posted above.”
The mom who says this?
“Do I think the incident was excessive? Yes — but do I think it was necessary? Yes.”
This completely contradicts itself. Her argument makes no sense.
“Wow, this is unreal. A principal got fired for expressing his opinion publicly.”
He posted under his school account which listed the school he presided over. That is almost certainly a violation of the school’s technology policy; I know it would be a violation of the one at my school. If he was a teacher I’d agree that firing would go too far but principals are VERY public figures and have to serve the entire community. Even the appearance of insensitivity can damage his ability to do his job effectively.
I wouldn’t have him fired if it were up to me, but it’s certainly constitutional for the district to do so.
“This reminds me of this poem by Martin Niemöller.”
Yes, because as we all know, conservatives would be the first to defend socialists and unions.
That poem is powerful but not applicable in this case. No one “came for” this principal. His rights were not violated. In certain occupations, including his, you can be let go for your social media postings if your employer believes they interfere with your duties.
Meanwhile I can’t recall anyone here ever saying anything about the fact that in many states, you can be fired from any job simply for being gay.
Tina: “I challenge everyone to produce video showing what happens when blacks or whites cooperate fully with police officers.”
You just saw one.
Seriously, the teens WERE cooperating. The officer told them to walk away. They did. He then changed his mind and ran over to arrest a teenage girl who was walking away from him for no apparent reason other than that she was being snarky to him. BFD. I deal with snarky teens on a daily basis and I don’t get violent with any of them.
So yeah, maybe she struggled after he went after her. Why shouldn’t she, at that point? She tried walking away. It didn’t work. The guy STILL treated her like garbage. Her cooperation was not rewarded. Even after she’s already on the ground he continues to slam her face into the ground because that’s not enough for him.
So what the hell are black teens supposed to think after seeing this video? The notion that “If you just cooperate, nothing bad will happen to you” is exposed as a lie. If you walk away, you can be arrested or shot. If you walk toward an officer, you can be arrested or shot. If you stand still, you can be arrested or shot. If you talk back, you can be arrested or shot. If you say nothing, you can be arrested or shot.
There is simply no winning, and no amount of Helpful White Lady Advice (TM) you can give that will protect anyone from this type of abusive and excessive treatment.
“Denial of any responsibility on the part of unruly mobs, criminals, and defiant thugs is an adolescent trait.”
As is denial of any responsibility on the part of trained officers.
“None of this would have happened had those at the party behaved civilly with respect for others.”
It also wouldn’t have happened had the officer behaved like an actual police officer, like his peers, and not a madman with a gun.
“Once trouble did break out co-operation with police officers would also have resulted in a different result.”
Again, this is simply not true, as the video clearly shows there WAS cooperation with the police.
#35 Chris: ““Do I think the incident was excessive? Yes — but do I think it was necessary? Yes.”
This completely contradicts itself. Her argument makes no sense.”
It make sense if you put her words into context with the rest of what she said. “Excessive” being out of control behavior by 150 kids who refused to do what the outnumbered cops told them.
Here’s a different situation with a completely different outcome. A swat team of 30 officers show up at a house where four known drug dealers with guns are at 5am. The officer who explained this common tactic gave the reason because it has proven to be the safest outcome for all, both cops and criminals. Over powering the criminals with so many cops will force them to realize they won’t win and to just give up.
The reverse happened at the pool party. The kids way out numbered the cops and knew they were the ones in control and didn’t have to obey the cops. After being told to sit down they just hoped up again. The cops were running around trying to herd a bunch of cats. If those kids had done what the cops told them and stayed where they were told to there would have been a completely different outcome.
Right now you are alone in your class of 30 students. What would you do if they all decided to trash your classroom? Would you just stand there and let them? Walk out and block the door preventing them from leaving, while inside they’re hurting each other and destroying everything. Or would you try to first talk to them and if that didn’t work to physically try to stop them from hurting the others? You have three seconds to answer. Now, after putting yourself in that cops shoes in a similar situation tell us what you did.
Chris, “He posted under his school account which listed the school he presided over. That is almost certainly a violation of the school’s technology policy; I know it would be a violation of the one at my school. If he was a teacher I’d agree that firing would go too far but principals are VERY public figures and have to serve the entire community. Even the appearance of insensitivity can damage his ability to do his job effectively.”
He did NOT post his comments to his school account. He did on his own personnel FB account.
“Principal Iber deleted the post supportive of the Texas police officer from his personal Facebook account not long after the statement was published. When a comment is posted via the Facebook app, both the name and an image of the account holder are also shared.
http://www.inquisitr.com/2163115/alberto-iber-florida-principal-fired-over-mckinney-cop-facebook-post/#7u0rdofkH8JQTMfI.99
The superintendent removed this principal from his job for “perceived insensitivities,” which he said was “unacceptable.” Wow! Perceived!!
This should outrage you Chris. Just think some day you may have a very conservative principal who may perceive what you say as unacceptable.
Which leads into the poem I posted. I’m willing to stand up for your rights which I may not agree with, but are you willing to stand up for those you don’t?
Chris, “Meanwhile I can’t recall anyone here ever saying anything about the fact that in many states, you can be fired from any job simply for being gay.”
You’re right, I don’t either. But, I do remember the guy being forced to resign from Mozilla after it was discovered he’d given $1,000 to Prop. 8. the same year Obama too supported traditional marriage of one man and one woman.
Anti-gay marriage group calls for boycott of Mozilla Firefox:
“A leading anti-gay marriage organization is calling for a boycott of the web browser Firefox after its maker, Mozilla, forced out its CEO over his opposition to same-sex marriage.
The National Organization for Marriage said in a statement that the exit of CEO Brendan Eich on Thursday — Eich resigned amidst pressure over his contributions to the 2008 ballot measure outlawing gay marriage in California — resulted from a “McCarthy-esque witch hunt.”
“When Brendon Eich made his modest contribution to support Proposition 8, Barack Obama was on the ballot as a candidate who said he believed marriage was the union of one man and one woman,” NOM president Brian Brown said. “Now Eich has been the target of a vicious character attack by gay activists who have forced him out of the company he has helped lead for years.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/04/04/anti-gay-marriage-group-calls-for-boycott-of-mozilla-firefox/
None of your argument points are rational and all can be proven wrong. Reasonable minds should be able to disagree on things without destroying the other person when you don’t. Keep going down this path Chris and you too may find yourself in the same situation as this cop and the Mozella CEO. Hope you and your liberal friends do before they come for you too.
Peggy, where is the evidence that the kids were not complying at the time the officer in question took the actions he is being criticized for?
You ask what I would do if my kids were being violent with each other or trashing my room, but none of that is happening in any of the video footage that’s out there. It sounds like there was a fight or possibly multiple fights before the police got there, but once they were there the situation is pretty much handled.
The girl who the officer manhandled clearly was not being violent at the time the officer chased her down and assaulted her. She was walking away, which is exactly what he told her to do. Whether there was a fight earlier is clearly irrelevant to his behavior in the moment.
Look at the behavior of the other officers. None of them are acting like the officer under scrutiny. If his reaction was appropriate and justified, what does that say about the other officers? Were they not doing their jobs? Or were they handling the situation calmly and carefully, to deescalate the situation like they are supposed to? And what of the police department which condemned his actions? Were they wrong to do so? Do you think they were just bowing to PC bullies, or do you think they legitimately believe that this was terrible police work?
I just don’t get it. This is literally a case where most cops behaved well and one bad apple took things too far. This is #notallcops. Conservatives should be pointing to this as an example of how most cops are good and the bad ones are in the minority (and to be fair, some are, and Jack seemed to at first). But instead you’re trying to defend behavior that even this guy’s own department said was excessive and inappropriate. And all of the defenses seem to be referring to events which happened way earlier and had almost nothing to do with the actions being criticized.
It’s all very counterproductive and self-sabotaging. Conservative objections to liberals screaming “police brutality” become less convincing every time you defend actual instances of police brutality.
Please explain how that office was correct in that 7 seconds of video. He manhandles a child. really ?
What is this really about? race?
P.S. Chris thanks.
Sad but true.
But also remember it keeps them busy while the Robber barons sell off America.
Port in Florida now has a 35 yr lease to a middle eastern company and not a peep?
It is actually a security risk that worries many.
Follow the media and you become Sheeple. What is important? McKinney, Texas.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/23/us-usa-florida-port-idUSKBN0EY2KF20140623
That is not OK.
Chris your news source is giving you a different view than the ones I’m reading. So, here once again is what people who were there are saying. Since neither you nor I were I’m going with what they say.
McKinney Homeowners Subjected to Pool Party Ruckus Defend and Thank Cops:
“Homeowners in the neighborhood who were witnesses to the ruckus at the McKinney, Texas, neighborhood community pool both defended the officers who have been attacked about their handling of the situation, and thanked them for coming to their aid and keeping them safe.
70 uninvited teens and others showed up and engaged in everything from pot smoking to assault at the party.
Teens who were not invited climbed the fence to get in. The trouble began when they were asked to leave.
Peace officers were called to the scene because the teens were not only engaging in trespass, and allegedly drinking and smoking pot, they also assaulted a mother with three children.
This photo was posted on Twitter by Lauren Zakalik who wrote “One #McKinneyTX resident visibly and vocally supporting the officers, says he saw whole thing Friday.”
https://twitter.com/wfaalauren/status/607677727504662528/photo/1
Another homeowner appeared on camera on Fox4 in Dallas but only her hands were filmed. She said “I feel absolutely horrible for the police and what’s going on … they were completely outnumbered and they were just doing the right thing when these kids were fleeing and using profanity and threatening security guards.”
Bryan Gestner, a resident, put this message on his Facebook page:
This was a Twitter party that turned mob event. Jumping pool fence. Assaulting 2 security guards, attacking a mother with three little girls. The video doesn’t show everything. … I commend the officer for handling this situation.
Gestner also said the kids who trespassed on the event were smoking marijuana and drinking and would not listen to the adults at the pool. He added:
This isn’t about race … This is about outside kids invading our neighborhood and had no respect for authority or the residents here.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/08/mckinney-homeowners-subjected-to-pool-party-ruckus-defend-and-thank-cops/
Based on the FACTS as presented by eye witnesses who were there I believe my hypothetical situation with you in your classroom is similar. Just because there isn’t a “video” doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. There was a mother with three kids assaulted, is that not violent enough for you? If there had not been a video of your classroom being destroyed, wouldn’t the damage after be enough evidence to the fact it did happen?
If those kids had been in a CVS drug store trashing it, would you say it didn’t happen because there wasn’t a video? Where does it stop Chris? Those kid’s behavior was wrong. Period. And no amount of blaming someone else’s bad behavior will change that.
Yes, the cop over reacted, but given that he was outnumbered I can understand why he did. If he was told, which he probably was, that three young kids and their mother was assaulted he probably wanted to find out who the attackers were. Do you blame him for trying to do his job?
The cop was wrong. We all admit that, but the kids are the ones who started this whole mess and they are the ones I find the most fault with. They should be the ones being held accountable and not being made out to be just poor little victims who did nothing wrong. That’s BS.
The videos I’ve seen show that same girl in the yellow bikini walking around in the street. There’s also video of adults saying kids were jumping up after being told to sit down and stay there when the cops turned their backs. That’s why I said was like the cops were trying to herd cats.
Enough said, I know nothing I say will change your mind. The cop according to you was wrong and that girl and all of the others who crashed that party are just poor misunderstood helpless victims who should be able to do whatever whenever they want so they don’t have to grow up to be responsible adults.
Peggy, I asked you a very simple question:
“Peggy, where is the evidence that the kids were not complying at the time the officer in question took the actions he is being criticized for?”
Nothing you wrote in your last comment addresses that question. At all.
First of all, I’m not aware of any criticism of the other officers on the scene, except for the officer who assaulted the 14-year-old girl. The others seemed to be handling the situation appropriately.
Second, I never said I needed video evidence that a fight occurred. Everyone seems to agree that a fight broke out. And of course it’s possible that the black kids started it, and that some of them needed to be punished.
But that is completely irrelevant to the matter we are disagreeing on.
“Yes, the cop over reacted, but given that he was outnumbered I can understand why he did. If he was told, which he probably was, that three young kids and their mother was assaulted he probably wanted to find out who the attackers were. Do you blame him for trying to do his job?”
Just…watch the video again, please. His treatment of the girl in question had nothing to do with “finding out who the attackers were.” He had already told the girl and her friends to leave. They started leaving, but they were talking back to him as they left. This seemed to really piss him off, so he singled this girl out and treated her very roughly. THAT is what is being criticized, and THAT is what you have failed to defend, instead choosing to distract from the issue by talking about irrelevant details.
“The cop was wrong. We all admit that,”
No, you do not “all admit that.” In fact, no one but you on this website has admitted that. So I must give you props for admitting that the cop acted wrongly, since you are the only conservative here who has done that so far. (Jack seemed like he was in the article, but has since moved over to “neutral.”)
“The cop according to you was wrong and that girl and all of the others who crashed that party are just poor misunderstood helpless victims who should be able to do whatever whenever they want so they don’t have to grow up to be responsible adults.”
Please stick to challenging arguments I have actually made, and not arguments you imagine I have made.
Yes, Chris you asked a simple question and I answered you. I said, “There’s also video of adults saying kids were jumping up after being told to sit down and stay there when the cops turned their backs.” You can look them too if you really want the truth. I’m not going to waste my time because like usual if I do post it you’ll just criticize my source or the individual. So, go find it yourself. Of course your sources probably didn’t cover them and you’ll be forced to use one of those you always attack. So, forget the source and listen to the parents who were there.
Speaking of “simple question” I’m still waiting for your response to how you’d handle your classroom being trashed. I gave you three seconds to respond and it’s been days. You’re a professional just like that cop was and wanted to see how you as a professional would handle a similar situation with only a couple of seconds to respond and how you’d react.
“First of all, I’m not aware of any criticism of the other officers on the scene, except for the officer who assaulted the 14-year-old girl. The others seemed to be handling the situation appropriately.”
Pay attention Chris. I already explained based on the information that is out there from the videos of interviews taken from those individuals who were there the officer who was dealing with the girl in the yellow swim suit was the first and ONLY cop there until those two new officers came running up and chased off those two boys. Use your head Chris. ONE lone cop, 100+ plus kids. The two new cops came running up. Do you think they would have just stood there and watched what was going on? Of course not, they would have been assisting the lone cop. The reason those two boys took off is because they saw the two cops running toward them and realized the order of control just changed. It wasn’t 100+ to one any more.
When I said the cop was wrong I was referring to his over reacting with the girl. Base on what I saw I don’t think he needed to pin her down with both of his knees. I do believe he was justified in pulling his gun because of the possible threat those two boys created when they taunted him from his back. He NEVER pointed the gun at ANY kid and holstered it right after the two new cops went after the boys.
Waiting for your answers to my classroom question.
Re :
“Peggy, where is the evidence that the kids were not complying at the time the officer in question took the actions he is being criticized for?”
Idiot. Watch the video.
His treatment of the girl in question had nothing to do with “finding out who the attackers were.”
Idiot. He was trying to control the situation and stop any further violence.
God help us. Idiots like Chris expect police to be super heroes with supernatural powers.
I’m going to add one more observation to this and then I’m done.
I’m wondering why the officer didn’t use his handcuffs on the girl in the yellow swimsuit he was holding down. Could it be he’d already used them on another kid? I’d say yes, absolutely. Otherwise, he’d have used them on the girl and would NOT have had to retain her with his hands and knees.
If you can’t comprehend this Chris I’m afraid I’ll have to agree with Pie. You never will.
Peggy: “Speaking of “simple question” I’m still waiting for your response to how you’d handle your classroom being trashed. I gave you three seconds to respond and it’s been days. You’re a professional just like that cop was and wanted to see how you as a professional would handle a similar situation with only a couple of seconds to respond and how you’d react.”
I already explained to you that this question isn’t relevant to the situation at hand. Nothing was being “trashed” in the video in the moments the officer is being criticized for. Whatever violence occurred had already been handled. The officer re-ignited the violence when he assualted the young girl.
But I’ll answer your question anyway: if a fight broke out or multiple kids were destroying property, I would try and break it up with the minimal force necessary; if I couldn’t, I’d evacuate the peaceful kids and call security.
Here’s what I wouldn’t do:
I wouldn’t freak out when a kid talked back to me, to the point of grabbing one of them by the hair and slamming her face to the ground.
“Use your head Chris. ONE lone cop, 100+ plus kids.”
If the officer was so afraid of dealing with such a massive crowd, why oh WHY would he choose to devote so much of his attention going after one girl half his size and wrestling her to the ground? How could that POSSIBLY help him manage the crowd?
There is no explanation for this officer’s behavior that doesn’t boil down to sheer incompetence.
“The two new cops came running up. Do you think they would have just stood there and watched what was going on? Of course not, they would have been assisting the lone cop. The reason those two boys took off is because they saw the two cops running toward them and realized the order of control just changed. It wasn’t 100+ to one any more.”
I’m still unclear on what you’re trying to prove here, but it seems to me that the two other officers actually prioritize calming down the first officer before going after the two boys; one of them even puts his hand on thr first officer, and both of them stop to make sure he stays behind before pursuing the boys.
“When I said the cop was wrong I was referring to his over reacting with the girl.”
Then I’m really not sure what we’re disagreeing on; this is the crux of the issue.
“I do believe he was justified in pulling his gun because of the possible threat those two boys created when they taunted him from his back.”
I can see your point here, but again, the only reason the boys came up in the first place was because the cop was treating their friend so roughly; so he must bear primary responsibility for creating this dangerous situation. His job was to de-escalate the situation and instead he escalated it.