President Obama made remarks following the murders perpetuated on church attendees in Charleston, North Carolina:
Once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. … We as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.
Truth or fiction? Here are a few facts:
…surely the president recalls that in January of this year two gunmen entered the office of a satirical magazine in France with an assortment of guns and murdered 11 people (and injured 11 more). After leaving, they killed a police officer. And in a marketplace catering to Jews another five were murdered and 11 wounded. France is, allegedly, an advanced country, is it not? Perhaps if Obama had attended the anti-terror rally in Paris like every other leader of advanced countries did, his recollection would be sharper.
In 2011, a deranged Anders Behring Breivik killed eight people by setting off a van bomb in Oslo, before going on to murder 69 more people, mostly children, at a summer camp. This is the single worst shooting spree incident in history. Obama surely remembers that he left the White House and visited the Norwegian ambassador’s residence to offer his condolences.
Read more here.
I meant to post this on Friday, sorry about that! But maybe the delay was purposeful. Today, CBS reported on the President’s remarks following the church shooting, proving once again that the party of concern is only concerned when there’s an incident to exploit for political purposes.
Obama: “this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.”
Obviously this statement isn’t true if you read it on the most literal level. The president should know that without attaching a proper qualifier, words like “always” and “never” are implied.
The article you link to clearly shows that mass shootings do happen in other countries–sometimes.
I think the meaning of Obama’s remarks was pretty clear, but if somehow there are people who need this spelled out for them, this is what he should have said:
“this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries nearly as often as it happens in the United States.”
Had he said this, he would have been entirely correct:
“The United States has more guns and gun deaths than any other developed country in the world, researchers found.
A study by two New York City cardiologists found that the U.S. has 88 guns per 100 people and 10 gun-related deaths per 100,000 people – more than any of the other 27 developed countries they studied.
Japan, on the other hand, had only .6 guns per 100 people and .06 gun-related deaths per 100,000 people, making it the country with both the fewest guns per capita and the fewest gun-related deaths.”
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/09/19/u-s-has-more-guns-and-gun-deaths-than-any-other-country-study-finds/
Pointing to the (relatively rare) instances of mass shootings in France and Norway and then saying “See, there’s nothing we can do!” is not a rational argument. Obviously, the relative frequencies of these events matter.
The United States has more gun deaths than any other industrialized nation. That was what Obama was getting at, as I think you know. Now, what can we do about that?
Chris quoting statistics for Japan is a bit odd, if not downright unfair.
Here’s why: Japan is not a multicultural country like us. We have about 40 million 3rd world immigrants. Plus, they (Japan) have deep societal values that reach back thousands of years, unlike the USA which has a mix of values based on prior home countries and multiculturalism which celebrates our diversity.
In Japan they don’t like multiculturalism. It doesn’t matter if you were born there and speak fluent Japanese, if you are not of Japanese decent you are not Japanese…period. This is a very closed society with a strict set of standards for how they conduct themselves.
Americans could not tolerate living as the Japanese anymore than they could tolerate living like we do.
Besides the police and the military, the only group that is allowed to posses guns is hunters, and that possession is strictly circumscribed. The police even check hunters’ ammunition inventory, to make sure that there are no unaccounted shells or bullets. Hunting licenses themselves are not particularly difficult to obtain. A prospective hunter must take an official safety course; and then pass a test which covers maintenance and inspection of the hunting gun, methods of loading and unloading cartridges, shooting from various positions, and target practice for stationary and moving objects. The hunting license is valid for three years. Total permit fees for hunting rifles and licenses are 15000 (about 125 American dollars). When not hunting, gun owners must store their weapons in a locker.
Trap and skeet shooting are also tightly restricted.
Civilians cannot obtain handgun target licenses. Even possession of a non-firing starter’s pistol is only allowed under carefully- detailed conditions.
As in Britain, shotguns are far easier to obtain than rifles. In a nation with half the population of the U.S., there are only 27,000 rifle licensees. There are about half a million licensed shotguns, although their numbers have declined by about 20% in this decade.
Japan’s strictly-regulated guns play very little part in crime. In 1985, for example, only 35 crimes, including 10 murders, were committed with hunting guns.
Although handguns are completely forbidden to civilians, 2/3rds of all gun crimes are committed by Boryokudan, organized crime groups.
As the gun-banners point out, the Japanese crime rate is dramatically lower than the U.S. rate. Tokyo, the world’s safest major city, suffers muggings at the rate of 40 per year per one
million inhabitants. New York City’s rate is 11,000.
Actually, the gap between U.S. and Japanese homicide rates is not quite as large as the official statistics indicate. The real Japanese murder rate is about twice the reported rate; unlike the U.S., Japan does not count an attempt to injure, but which accidentally causes death, as a homicide. The F.B.I. also over-counts American murders, by listing the 1,500 – 2,500 legal, self-defense fatal shootings of criminals as illegal homicide.
This young man gets it.
VIDEO: Black middle schooler accuses Obama of ‘politicizing’ Charleston deaths
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/video-black-middle-schooler-accuses-obama-of-politicizing-charleston-deaths/
Given the content of Chris’ several posts here and elsewhere it is pretty clear where he stands on gun ownership, or rather the end of the right to bear arms and the destruction of the 2nd amendment.
I’m not sure why the article focused so much on Japan. You are right that that is not the best comparison. But as it said we are still the highest in gun deaths among other Western nations as well, most of which have many more similarities to the US than Japan does.
Chris how do we compare with Mexico and their tough gun laws? Given our Hispanic population and the proximity of Mexico to us, I would think comparing their gun homicide rate to ours would be better than comparing Japan’s.
Unwise to trust anything a proven serial liar says about any subject . . . .
I definitely overstated my case earlier Jack. I should have said wealthy nations rather than industrialized nations. Mexico and many other Latin American countries of course have higher gun death rates than we do. But we’re still not doing great when compared with other wealthy nations.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/23/facebook-posts/the-us-is-no-in-gun-violence-is-it/
Chris well it looks like we are finding an area of agreement, always nice. : )
Jack do you know how many gun deaths in the U.S. are committed by persons in our nation illegally and persons who are members of gangs?
Neither of these two groups would have respect for any of our laws much less gun laws. The deranged also have no respect for gun laws. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.
Chris: “I think the meaning of Obama’s remarks was pretty clear, but if somehow there are people who need this spelled out for them…”
You are so arrogant! Obama has been referred to as, “The smartest man I’ve ever met,” and is touted as a great communicator. He is a trained lawyer and as such knows the value and meaning of words. Exact meaning is very important to the legal mind.
The English major thinks he has to interpret this man’s words and explain Obama’s meaning for those he thinks of as lesser. Yet Obama’s words were very specific:
“…this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.”
Whether Obama believes it or not he certainly wanted those who heard him to believe what he said!
“Jack do you know how many gun deaths in the U.S. are committed by persons in our nation illegally”
Lets not excite anyone with the un-PC word “illegal”, the White House Chief wordsmith has coined the term “Americans-in-waiting” to replace that(shhhhhhh best whispered)word illegal.
My bad Harold, thanks for the heads up. I’m okay with “Americans in waiting” as long as they’re “waiting” legally.
Words mean things. I met a woman recently who spent over $10,000 and waited ten years for legal entry. she was pretty angry about what’s going on.
A party leadership that floods our shores with “waiting” Americans who did not go through the lawful process for entry into this country for political reasons should be exposed and denounced as unfit for service to the nation.
yawn
Dewey there’s a cure for your boredom…just go away!
Wait a moment, quite now, shhhhh listen,
this is just a Head Up, Butt did anyone hear a muffled “yawn’?
most likely coming from the ‘rear’
According to the New York Times, a “loophole” in background check laws allowed Dylan Roof to purchase the gun he used in the shooting:
“WASHINGTON — The man accused of killing nine people in a historically black church in South Carolina last month should not have been able to buy the gun he used in the attack, the F.B.I. said Friday, in what was the latest acknowledgment of flaws in the national background check system.
A loophole in the system allowed the man, Dylann Roof, to buy the .45-caliber handgun despite having previously admitted to drug possession, the F.B.I. said.
Mr. Roof first tried to buy the gun on April 11, from a dealer in South Carolina. The F.B.I., which conducts background checks for gun sales, told the dealer not to proceed with the purchase because agents needed to do more investigating about Mr. Roof’s s criminal history.
Under federal law, the F.B.I. has three days to determine whether there is sufficient evidence to deny the purchase. If the bureau cannot come up with an answer, the purchaser can return to the dealer and buy the gun.
Continue reading the main story
RELATED COVERAGE
Police officers outside the church.Nine Killed in Shooting at Black Church in CharlestonJUNE 17, 2015
Dylann Storm Roof wearing a jacket with the flags of apartheid-era South Africa, top, and Rhodesia, as modern-day Zimbabwe was called during a period of white rule.Dylann Roof, Suspect in Charleston Shooting, Flew the Flags of White PowerJUNE 18, 2015
In the case of Mr. Roof, his application was not resolved in three days and he returned to store and was sold the gun. The F.B.I. said the delay was the product of a breakdown in communication between federal agents and local authorities in South Carolina.
Many major national gun dealers – like Walmart – will not sell the weapon to the buyer if they do not have an answer from F.B.I., but many smaller stores will.
“We are all sick this happened,” said the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey. “We wish we could turn back time.”
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RECENT COMMENTS
PDenoli 4 minutes ago
I love how the article asserts some association between bad behavior and the three day waiting period. All data is stored electronically. …
Alec 4 minutes ago
Amusing. The New York Times is gradually shifting its myopic focus to the gun control question surrounding the Charleston massacre after…
Jim Tankersly 5 minutes ago
When we keeping making laws to live by the sword, why are we surprised when we die by one?
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Mr. Roof has been charged with murder in the attack at the Emanuel A.M.E. Church in Charleston.
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The F.B.I. operates the background check system, called the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and loopholes have been discovered in it before. One allowed thousands of prohibited buyers to legally purchase firearms over the past decade — and some of those weapons were ultimately used in crimes, according to court records and government documents. That problem stemmed from the three-day period the government has to determine whether someone is eligible to buy a gun.
After a 2007 shooting in which 33 people died at Virginia Tech University, investigators discovered that the gunman, Seung-Hui Cho, also should not have been able to buy a gun because a court had previously declared him to be a danger to himself. The shooting led to legislation aimed at improving the background check system.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/11/us/background-check-flaw-let-dylann-roof-buy-gun-fbi-says.html?_r=0
It seems to me that the blame could fall on the FBI for this, not necessarily a flaw in the law itself. Then again, three days doesn’t seem like a very long time to me; would Republicans be willing to consider an extended time period?
Sorry for the horrendous copy-paste job above; I need to remember to check my comments before submitting!