by Jack
This can’t be said often enough:
People didn’t just wake up one day and hear about Mohammad or the Koran and say, “Gee I think I’ll reject my religion and become a Muslim.” Terrorism and armed [conquest] has been the main force behind the spread of Islam since its inception in 610 AD. Islam has relied upon forcing (often with extreme and barbaric torture) people to join their religion under threat of death, as much as they have by lesser means. Even in modern times this is still true. Also, in most Islamic run countries, it is a criminal offense, under penalty of death, to leave the Islamic religion. So the threat of death motivates people to join and to stay – can you think of another religion that does that in modern times?
Islam has three distinct parts that are used interchangeably to overcome resistance. It’s a political force, a military force and a cultural force. For the devout practitioner (the fundamentalist), this religion becomes a complete lifestyle, with rules of behavior for everyday living. This explains why when Muslims are integrated into another culture they are well prepared to hold fast to their values and ideology and use their influence to alter the way their host culture might conflict with them, not the other way around. Even in America an errant child in a devout Muslim family may be subjected to an honor killing if they deviate from the parent’s fundamentalist understanding of the Koran, this is how strong their indoctrination is!
A caliphate state is one expressly dedicated to the literal interpretation of the Koran and it is considered a Muslim paradise by extremists. In a caliphate new thought is spurned. Modernism is a word that is not only unwelcome; it is a crime to be swayed by modern idealism, such as the notion of equal and inalienable rights.
The constant, repeated indoctrination of Islamic core values is punctuated by fear and loathing of anything non- Islamic. This is something found in most cults and it’s dangerous. This extreme religious pressure has resulted in Islamic sub-cultures across Europe and domination of other weaker nations spread out over most of the African continent.
So, when people talk about engaging in a dialog with Muslim extremists, using logic and empathy as a road to understanding and peace, they’re really asking that a large part of what makes Islam successful be rejected in favor of modernism. Do you really think they’re going to be receptive to that?
France is one of the more liberal, egalitarian nations in Europe to host large numbers of Muslim immigrants and now Muslim refugees, because of the war caused by ISIS. It ought to be a huge red flag for liberals when the French are experiencing so much social discontent and violence coming from their new Muslim sub-culture. It’s also quite telling that ISIS has been able to attracted a large number of French born Muslims into their ranks and use some in the sub-culture to turn on their hosts. These are relatively small numbers compared to the 60 million people that compose France, but it doesn’t take many to cause a 9/11 and look how much damage that did. Hold this thought.
Now let’s talk about ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Certainly ISIS is a fundamentalist movement, but not all of ISIS terrorists are devout Muslims. Some are joining their ranks to be jihadists for other age old reasons, like adventure, money, home, cars, women, and prestige. ISIS takes sex slaves and loots the homes and businesses of other Muslims to provide the rewards for their mercenary fighters as well as the mainstream jihadist and this has a great appeal to people who don’t have these things in their home country.
Money talks: Supporting their army requires a lot of cash and ironically all of their financing is done in American dollars. A recent financial ledger smuggled out of Syria gives a detailed account of how money is acquired and spent. ISIS has taxation on income and property, but it’s applied arbitrarily, depending on who the person is that they are extracting money from and how they might be helpful to ISIS.
ISIS currently has a large cash flow and they can easily provide luxuries for the fighters they would not have otherwise. Black market oil contributes to well over half of their income, but they have also been engaged in the sale of antiquities, where a single item could be worth millions on the open market. This is such a big business for ISIS that they have created a Ministry just to facilitate the sale of ancient treasure and for the exploration of artifacts. So they are supported by taxes, looting, black market oil and antiquities selling. Without that massive income ISIS would shrink dramatically.
Now let’s go back to the opening of this article. Many among us want to open a dialog with ISIS and through mutual respect and understanding for each other we can find a way that will lead to peace. This sounds very plausible, if you ignore history. But, you know the history of Islam and you know this is impossible. The liberals worry that bombing ISIS will only create more resistance and that it does not good. Worse, it encourages Muslims elsewhere who may be sitting on the fringe to join the side of ISIS. This all sounds good from the standpoint of our Western culture. We’ve used negotiation and diplomacy many times to end war and bring about a lasting peace. However, the Middle East is a different sort of culture that plays by rules we are not familiar with. This is why, we’ve had very little success dealing with Muslim fundamentalist. The only thing they respect is our Western might, remove that and they are at our throat.
If we show the slightest bit of weakness they will leverage it to their advantage, we can find almost no end of examples throughout history where this is true! Bluntly said, there is no such thing as an iron-clad treaty with radicalized Muslims and this certainly includes Iran. Iran will say and do whatever is expedient at the moment and then later they do whatever fits their agenda.
Western minds have a hard time grasping this reality, but we better! At the moment we are still gullible enough that we do not have a united front against ISIS. Some still believe that embracing Muslim refugees is the best way to defeat ISIS because it undermines the lies they say about America. That might only be marginally true, but what is the cost to our culture to make this minimal impact on ISIS propaganda?
I’m afraid we’re still too trusting and kind. This has been our undoing in every negotiation we’ve ever had in the Middle East from oil deals to peace treaties. In their world the Koran gives them absolution to lie to infidels if it will advantage them in any way. We need to come to grips with this and act like believers and defenders of our unique American idealism; our values and idealism is what draws people to America, we can’t compromise that for sake getting along with a radical Muslim! 
ISIS is a cancer and the only way to end their reign of terror is to wipe them out. To do that we must commit ground forces into Syria and Iraq. Bombing helps, but it won’t hold territory, we need troops on the ground.
ISIS must be destroyed, no compromise will ever work. To do that the most effective way is to abandon this stupid idea that Assad needs to go; he’s the least of our problems! Assad is actually a progressive and a religious moderate. Yes, he has used brutal force at times, show me a leader in the Middle East that hasn’t! But, he could be a lot worse and [worse] is very common in the Middle East, all the way up to Pakistan and Afghanistan. We’re likely stuck with Assad, like him or not. If we want to win the fight with ISIS quickly and efficiently he’s the answer. We could also use Russia’s help too. We better drop the ego trip and go with what’s practical, and the sooner the better. When ISIS is out of the picture we can worry about Assad, but now is not the time.
If we do any less that a total war on ISIS and that means taking no prisons as we crush them into oblivion, we’re going to have terrorism finding its way to our shores in numbers that will be hard to imagine. As it is now, they (ISIS and Al Qaeda) have declared war on us; we need to make that sound like a real bad idea for future groups like ISIS and A`Q.
Those who think they can have a “dialog” with terrorists will find themselves missing a head, and I’ll have no sympathy for them.
Excellent post Jack.
Off Topic —
The film Climate is being shown in Paris and there are quite a few informative videos on the webpage http://www.climatehustle.org/
Thanks Pie! : )
The Great Global Warming Swindle (Full Movie)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=52Mx0_8YEtg
Seems like it is time to ban religion. Remember the Crusades?
I say take all hating Christians and all hating Muslims and put them in an Arena to fight.
Bigotry must be dealt with.
Long history of Christian Killing as well. Now we have extremists from bot religions killing.
Neither religion is about killing and in the end they are just really old books.
Absolutely right, Dewey. We hear about the Presbyterians beheading non-believers every day.
Good one, Soaps!
Soaps!!! lol
So it’s ok for Christians to kill people in the US because they use a gun? got it. That applies to all brands religious extremists right?
Being a believer does not mean you have to follow corrupt versions of a bible for political control of a population.
The Christians killed millions. http://articles.exchristian.net/2002/10/how-many-people-have-been-kinded-by.php
In the end Organized Religion is used to control a population. The bible has been abused for power throughout history.
“In fact, Jefferson was devoted to the teachings of Jesus Christ. But he didn’t always agree with how they were interpreted by biblical sources, including the writers of the four Gospels, whom he considered to be untrustworthy correspondents. So Jefferson created his own gospel by taking a sharp instrument, perhaps a penknife, to existing copies of the New Testament and pasting up his own account of Christ’s philosophy, distinguishing it from what he called “the corruption of schismatizing followers.”
Jefferson produced the 84-page volume in 1820—six years before he died at age 83—bound it in red leather and titled it The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/how-thomas-jefferson-created-his-own-bible-5659505/?no-ist
Bottom line you are feeding ISIS. You prove them right and provide the ultimate recruiting tool. This is a repeat of the WW2 history and the Bankers will get their world war.
The SB terrorist is no different than the Colorado Terrorist. Only difference was one had a Koran and other a bible. One was radicalized by the extreme Isis and the other by the extreme Right Wing.
The one thing in common is hate.
Your Boy trump is the best ISIS recruiting tool ever. Hats off
Labeling Christians or Muslims as “haters” without qualification is pretty lame. It shows tremendous ignorance about both religions and about history.
It was really “hateful,” for instance, for Emperor Alexios I, in Constantinople to send a message to Pope Urban II in Italy asking for military help against the invading Turks which was the start the first crusade. Everyone knows when your are being overrun by warriors bent on destroying your homes and churches and forcing conversion with death an alternative for “infidels” you should just welcome them with open arms.
(Dewey would have loved being overtaken by Nazi’s for instance. Can;t youjust imagine the welcome mat with little swastikas in each corner?
Wikipedia:
Hmmm, “brutal and humiliating.” I’d say that describes modern day jihadists to a tee.
The “religion of peace” was founded by a warrior and is based primarily on tyranny and conquest:
Self defense is apparently not something you on the left recognize. The reason seems to be that you don’t want to have to take sides. Better to condemn both sides, regardless the facts, than to figure out who the aggressors are, eh Dewey?
We are the world, we are the children…only some people train their children that it’s honorable and good to blow themselves up for their religion.
Christians haven’t mounted a military force against any nation or peoples in centuries. Christians have joed with people of many other religions to fight for FREEDOM!
The vacuousness of the moral equivalence crowd is mind blowing!
The closet thing to the nazi playbook my friend is the US playbook right now.
George W. Bush has used the word “Crusade” to describe his war against the people he calls “evildoers.” Bush clearly believes that the United States of America is a Christian nation, and that the government should be used to promote Christian religious projects.
General Wesley Clark reports in his latest book that the White House has drawn up a list of exclusively Muslim nations to target as enemies over the next four years (Afghanistan, Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and the Sudan – two down, six to go).
Bush says that he’s fighting against terrorism everywhere, yet refuses to touch Christian terrorist groups, even those that are organizing within the United States. Bush seems only interested in fighting Muslim terrorists.
In Iraq, a government-paid chaplain has been baptizing American soldiers as Christians in exchange for giving them water to take showers.
Now, it has been discovered that one of Bush’s top generals in his wars against evildoers, General William G. Boykin, believes that these wars are being fought against Satan himself. In public, this military officer and aide to Bush insists that the mission of the American military is to defeat Islam in the name of Christianity. So far, the Bush White House has refused to distance itself from Boykin’s claim, and defends Boykin’s appropriation of the American military for religious purposes as “free speech”.
Religion has no place in politics nor shall Religion rule a whole population
As I was reading this, “If we show the slightest bit of weakness they will leverage it to their advantage, we can find almost no end of examples throughout history where this is true! “…
I thought about the Chicago mob during the bad old years of Al Capone. The mob and their gangster rivals were basically holding the businessmen in Chicago hostage. They paid the “price of doing business” or found themselves without trash pick-up or booze. Negotiations and resistance were useless. Machine guns were legal then. Politicians and cops were bought off. It took a bloody “war” waged by Eliot Ness to clean out the rats nest.
The point is, the American people know you can’t negotiate with such people…you have to defeat them.
The radical left, including the President, are engaging in magical thinking when they say/think you can.
Radical left, what is so radical about democracy. Why is dictatorship and the Koch sheeple from the right so normal?
What is this radical left agenda that scares you so?
Affordable Healthcare?
Clean Water to drink?
Real Food to eat?
Living wages instead of wage slavery?
Equality for all?
Break up the monopolies raiding our tax system?
Break up the big banks who are so big they can risk our deposits, hedge against them, rake in millions and get a bailout?
Stop the privatization which is really selling all taxpayer assets to the oligarchy?
Stop the war machine that has brought terrorism on our soil?
In America that is not radical. Where were you born?
Establishment politicians from both parties are corrupt. The elections are a fake theater controlled by 6 media conglomerates.
I blame Americans for being so stupid they believe the politicians and ignore the facts. Documented Facts.
Dictatorship by the far right fascists is radical to me. Corporate government by corporate rule. That is what we have. Down to city councils corporations are running candidates. ALEC has a local spinoff.
Defeat?
Being where you are, in Chico, whom exactly are you going to defeat?
I have been reading about the recent surge in gun sales and am 1) distressed to realize I live in a country full of such chicken-shits, and 2) wonder who it is, precisely, you propose to shoot?
Libby, I know you think I was calling WMDS WMDS… but, I wasn’t. I was calling for more inspections and more time. I felt we were rushing too fast and as a result we were missing some necessary steps and the timing was off. You can go ahead and believe what you are saying, but what I said was written right here prior to Gulf 2.
Oh, Jack, you do learn, I’ll give you that.
Assad should stay?
By that logic, Hussein should have been left in place. But were you not the very greatest trumpeter of WMD, WMD, WMD!
I will never let you forget it, dude, never.
This whole goddamn, god-awful, middle-eastern mess is entirely your credulous fault. My only comfort is that the effing shrub is still compos mentis, and knows full well what he has wrought.
Someone besides Libby explain to me how arming oneself for defense purposes means you are chicken-$#i^
Who thinks like that?
I know a lady who road the streetcar every day with a long hatpin on her person. Was she just chicken dung too, or was she smart, fearless and prepared?
Geez!
Tina People who buy arms for self defense are a far cry from a politician sending a Christmas card with a 5 year old holding a gun. People walking around public places with ar15’s strapped on just to feel good. People worshiping guns like money.
What we need is normalcy again. What we have is sick, Hate.
The NRA was for background checks before it became a gun manufactures lobby. Bottom line profits before life. Fear mongering gets a rise in sales every time. That is why they have a bunch of idiots scared.
We created this mess and the sheeple keep following their lead! Sensible gun ownership and responsible media is a thing of the past.
Why are you not outraged by Dylan Roof or Richard Deer?
We isn’t “we here in Chico.” We is “we the people”…duh!
Obama is losing the war on terror. Period.
Steve, the latest intelligence info. says that ISIS foreign born jihadist now number about 30k, that is a 100% increase in the last 3 months. Yes, the way Obama is handling things, he is giving it to ISIS. Without the Iranians, Russians, Hezbollah and the Kurds it would be a lost cause right now. Sounds funny saying Hezbollah fighting against ISIS, but they are, they are like old friends with Assad.
The War Powers Act is limited, he has called on Congress to act several times. If it was a Democrat held Congress would people speak out?
Bottom line Congress needs to act.
Why would Congress want to further enable this unorganized, hit and miss, non strategic, enemy negotiating excuse for a leader?
He has rejected them as allies in this fight to go it alone through executive orders and secret negotiations again and again. He cannot be trusted!
Tina it is the constitutional duty of this Congress. Period.
You believe in the Constitution?
Jack: “Many among us want to open a dialog with ISIS and through mutual respect and understanding for each other we can find a way that will lead to peace.”
Really? That’s pretty dumb. Who has said they want this? I haven’t heard Obama or any other Democrat propose negotiation or diplomacy with ISIS. Are you sure this is true?
No it is spin. Bottom line ISIS recruits by saying America is at war with all Muslims. The Media is purposely feeding that.
What is being said is we want to work with peaceful Muslims because they need to out the extremists. We have to get Muslims here to work with us.
If radicalized here they can create a religious war here and that is the goal The right wing has to stop this. They want a war here as they know exactly what ISIS is doing and they feed them the hate they use to recruit.
Lock down! Marshall Law! War!
The left media plays into terrorists plan by trumpeting the noxious notion that republicans hate Muslims. This is called sucking up to the bully while throwing your friends and allies under the bus,
Terrorists respect strength. they are basically adolescents who get power when they see others cowering and kissing their butts!
You are a foolish dupe.
Tina: “The left media plays into terrorists plan by trumpeting the noxious notion that republicans hate Muslims.”
Do you believe the right has any responsibility for this notion? For example, when the top-polling Republican candidate says we should ban all Muslim immigration, does that contribute to the notion that “Republicans hate Muslims?”
No.
A knee jerk response to a logical war time proposal is expected, however. You haven’t disappointed me at all!
I think the left has wrongly accused the right of bigotry and hatred toward Muslims much more often than Republicans have ever said anything hateful toward Muslims.
I think the left has insisted the right is waging war on Muslims instead of Muslim “terrorists” and that has created an atmosphere of fear based on a damn lie.
I think the left’s divisive political games have done more damage than anything Trump has said.
Trump was speaking seriously about a serious problem.
The left is not willing to face reality and prefers playing political games.
Tina there is no left Media. There are 6 Oligarch’s that own it all.
Where is this left Media? It is all controlled. We do not have a Free Press in the mainstream.
MS news?
There is Right center Media MSNBC, The War Channel CNN and the foreign Owned Murdoch and Saudi Prince Ch Fox
Then the foreign owned Russian RT & Qatar AJAM
Which one is suppose to be left?
What Jack said in the entirety of his words makes sense:
“The constant, repeated indoctrination of Islamic core values is punctuated by fear and loathing of anything non- Islamic. This is something found in most cults and it’s dangerous. This extreme religious pressure has resulted in Islamic sub-cultures across Europe and domination of other weaker nations spread out over most of the African continent.”
“So, when people talk about engaging in a dialog with Muslim extremists, using logic and empathy as a road to understanding and peace, they’re really asking that a large part of what makes Islam successful be rejected in favor of modernism. Do you really think they’re going to be receptive to that?
“Now let’s go back to the opening of this article. Many among us want to open a dialog with ISIS and through mutual respect and understanding for each other we can find a way that will lead to peace. This sounds very plausible, if you ignore history. But, you know the history of Islam and you know this is impossible.”
I don’t believe there was specific credit directed toward Obama or any other Democrat, until Chris injected specifics out of context. Once that took place, then it became dumbed down as to make no sense..
Secret negotiations with Iran, the number one supporter of terrorism, suggests this administration would try to negotiate with ISIS. There is an Iran/ISIS connection, who’s to say those talks weren’t negotiations with ISIS?
Instead Obummer went forward with the charade of “an historic” deal with Iran…a complete joke.
More here:
And Libby we all know you and others will blame “the shrub” for this because you believe in magical thinking…if we just leave them alone they’ll leave us alone. You think this is somehow our fault! You refuse to see that this is a religiously driven bunch of tyrannical fanatics with a PLAN to rule the Middle East and the world. You refuse to believe that they declared war on us because ruling the world is their right!. Whether al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Nusra, al Shabaab, Hamas, or any other group, Radical Muslims are at war with the west and worldwide Islamic rule is their ultimate goal!
The shrub, as you call him, was smart enough to know we needed a plan to defeat this radical element and his plan was working until the bumbler took office.
O’Bummer decided to wing it! He’s been aiding and abetting this enemy ever since while at the same time playing ineffective war games. His decision to abandon Iraq and goof around in Afghanistan, eventually abandoning that fight as well, gave the enemy time to regroup and refresh their forces. The fiasco’s in Syria and Libya added to the enemies ability to establish a theater of operation, not unlike a formalized state, from which to wage their war. The military equipment they managed to acquire because of this bumbling idiot has made it very difficult for moderates in the ME, like the Kurds, to defend themselves much less defeat these hate filled fanatics.
You once complained about refugees under Bush. The bumbling Obama’s inept/conscious direction has created a more dangerous world and a much bigger refugee problem. Yourpathetic excuse is Bush did it.
I’ve said it more than once. Progressives never take responsibility. They make excuses and they blame others for everything they do that doesn’t have a magical ending (just about everything!) Progressives are too adolescent to lead and should never hold public office. Americans are fools to elect them.
Tina you will never get it
CIA and the oil Companies and Banks
I might add that Trump has no clue on any foreign policy nor it’s history. He only know his business dealings with these countries and is correct on the TPP being a bad deal but not for the reasons of protecting American Workers.
Trump was quiet during foreign policy during the debates because he is a Buffoon when it comes to foreign affairs.
Whether I like what is going on or not I can say the Military advisers know more. To pretend like that Buffoon acting as a candidate is credible is a failure to the intellectual aspects of these wars. We have been duped again and never ending war is here.
The US is not an innocent party either, nor is Russia. The more we bomb the more they recruit. Saudi’s are funding the terrorists and were involved in 911 remember?
Now we want the Names of the Oil Moguls, banks, and governments funding them.
Also Saudi Arabia needs to do something instead of fund these guys. Our Allies are also our enemies. Put middle eastern boots on the ground to fight a middle eastern problem. Why do we send our kids to die every time? And when we do they recruit more!
We created this mess, The gift of the GW Bush War that just keeps on giving. You forget the picture of John McCain with the terrorists as well?
You buy into the Propaganda like no other.
Connect the dots and we want answers. If I find out the Koch’s have funded them it’s Game On! After all the Koch’s do business in Iran making Millions, some patriots I must say.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali w/Hannity; 11-23-2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCwk4DFC7EQ
Islam Is A Religion Of Peace debate with Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Oct 19, 2011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh34Xsq7D_A
Here’s news to warm your heart: “Ex-Guantanamo detainee now an al Qaeda leader in Yemen”
Let em go and they come back to bite.