A rebuttal by Tina to comments from Quentin posted to my article, “America – A Conservative Nation”
Quentin: “Oh Tina! The TEA party IS a fringe right-wing element of racists and extremeists. That is why you guys are identified that way. A racist is defined as someone who would criticize the Black guy for doing the same thing the White guy did. An extreme racist would even go out of her way to make excuses for the White guy! ** As an example: the Black guy is roundly criticized for huge deficits. His first year deficit of $1.291 trillion is 125 billion less than the White guy’s last year deficit of $1.416 trillion.
This is all a blatant lie. The two Presidents share the 2009 deficit. GWB presided over the steps taken in October and Obama went on a spending spree in February. The crash can be attributed to many sources but the spread the wealth legislation of Carter and Clinton were Democrat through and through. Also, as we have discussed before, Democrats took over control of budgets in 2006! Obama Reid & Pelosi’s politics and love of spending other peoples money is what explodes deficit spending on into the future as demonstrated by the following chart and quote posted at The Heritage Foundation:
Obama has repeatedly claimed that his budget would cut the deficit by half by the end of his term. But as Heritage analyst Brian Riedl has pointed out, given that Obama has already helped quadruple the deficit with his stimulus package, pledging to halve it by 2013 is hardly ambitious. The Washington Post has a great graphic which helps put President Obama’s budget deficits in context of President Bush’s. ** What’s driving Obama’s unprecedented massive deficits? Spending. (see article for specific comparisons)
If you read through the Heritage article to the bottom of the page, Quentin, you will discover that war funding was included in these numbers.
The difference that I defend is based in the basic philosophy difference. I wasn’t happy with Bush spending in many cases. I defended him against false accusations and gross overstatements…like the one you made here.
Back to Quentin’s comment: “Another White guy tripled(!) the National Debt–as opposed to the Black guy’s increase of ~8%. Yet the Black guy is pilloried and the White guy is hailed as a saint! That same White guy increased the size of the Federal bureaucracy, but you, Tina, have made excuses for that while being critical of the Black guy’s ‘czars.'”
Sorry Quentin but I don’t respond to generic accusations. I would bet that if you had the guts to actually make a specific accusations, and site my specific words in context, I could easily prove you wrong. We’ve been down this road before if I’m reading between the lines with accuracy.
Quentin once again: “An extremist is defined as someone who would post a story saying the president is spending more cash on a trip to India in a day than he spends on Bush’s war in Afghanistan without verifying it first!
Oh yeah…that’s really extreme…posting a story that everyone is talking about on a discussion blog is well over the top! YOU, SIR, ARE A TOTAL NUTBALL!
We do current events and community discussion here! The story was printed in an Indian paper. The White House, we later discover, denied the figure. It would also not reveal the figure or acknowledge anything about the cost and specifics of the trip. It certainly became moot at that point to attempt to verify the correctness of the amount. Our discussion moved on to speculation about the cost and the greater point of the extravagance, and frankly the tone deafness, of this president.
As I said, this is a discussion page! Since the purpose here is to discuss current events the story proved to be quite useful. We all learned a few things. What are you afraid of, Quentin? Chris did a good job of defending, as you stupidly refer to him, the “black man”, and offering a differing opinion. You, on the other hand, chose to write stupid lies about deficits under Bush and another unnamed “white man”. You chose to attack me (and Jack) as racist and extremist. Well as long as you have chosen to go down that road let’s discuss racism. Your obsession with “black men” versus “white men” suggests it is you who have a problem with race. It’s a very PC problem that disallows criticism of anyone who happens to be black. This PC race problem doesn’t allow you to view either of these human beings, Bush & Obama, as men…you see only the color of their skin no matter what the topic of discussion. I think this attitude or posture is itself incredibly patronizing and blatantly racist!
I would have to say that those media types, left wing opinion columnists and pundits, bloggers, party mouthpieces, and Democrat politicians described you to a “T”
And I would have to say you are wrong and have little else of substance to offer…as usual!
You know, if you weren’t such a complete turkey we might actually have some very interesting discussions…it’s a shame really.
Tina, you have made your case. It is both factual and irrefutable. The evidence is overwhelming. On the other side all I hear is empty rhetoric absent a shred of fact. You win.
I think it is worth considering that Quentin does not belong on this blog. He does not contribute to an intelligent debate, but rather is a name-caller intent on agitating the right. His campaign was further proof that he is not here to propose solutions, but rather to disrupt those who disagree with the policital left.
When cornered on this, he will say that he has no political side and that he only seeks the truth, but his attacks fall only on conservatives, shedding light on his true intentions.
Perhaps it is time to let Quentin spew his hatred on his own blog, and ask him, as a gentleman, to leave this one in peace?
“This is all a blatant lie.”
The accountants that work for the US governemnt are all liars?
Of course the totally unbiased Heritage Foundation has the truth.
I made no mention of whether the wars were on or off budget. Why did you bring it up?
“Sorry Quentin but I don’t respond to generic accusations. I would bet that if you had the guts to actually make a specific accusations, and site my specific words in context, I could easily prove you wrong.”
You’re saying you won’t own up to the things you have posted on your own blog?
OK
Somehow, I’m not surprised. Principles have never been the strong suit of the TEA party.
“Oh yeah…that’s really extreme…posting a story that everyone is talking about on a discussion blog is well over the top!”
Hmmm. And yet Post_Scripts is where we will find views and opinion ‘not found anywhere else.’
BTW is that the chairman of the Republican party suggesting CENSORSHIP?
NOTHING you baggerz do surprises me anymore.
Pay closer attention, Mr. Thompson–your paranoia is showing!
I skew the Left all the time. But it’s more fun with the Right. The left doesn’t claim to have God and MORALITY on their side! The left doesn’t wave the flag like that BS Heritage Foundation does.
The left doen’t claim St. Raygun was a conervative God!
The Left are fools, but the Right gets up on the rooftops and proclaims their idiocy daily.
We need to look no further than the 200 million/day story.
I’m not sure calling me an A**HOLE and a nutcase really add to the discussion either. Do you Steve? Or, is it OK when the loving and comapssionate Right does it? I mean, all the hate comes from the Left, right?
Tell ya what: I have the city Plaza for Tax Day next year.
Would any of you fools care to debate?
Quentin I know you feel sold out by the GOP and you have been embarassed and frustrated by the Democrats who just don’t seem to know what you know about fiscal responsibility. I believe you must be incredibly disappointed that the voters rejected your bid for the city council, which you ran on a shoe string budget. ( I thought you did a very good job in campaigning by the way.)
But, frustration and anger has allowed your energy to be misdirected at times.
Now that being said – I recognize that you are patriotic and willing to stand up for your country. This is exemplified daily by your determined effort to fight the good fight for what you belief is right.
In light of this I have an idea to propose…let’s all start over and meet each other as simply people with ideas on government and discuss those ideas, absent any personal slams.
I think if we can do that we can do that we all win.
I’m all for it – what say you?
(and this was from Jack)
Steve, if you want Quentin to leave on those grounds, then you should ask Toby to leave as well. He has resorted to personal insults just as frequently, and unlike Quentin he has even posted violent fantasies about blowing up places of worship and defamed the integrity of the NYPD and NYFD. The other day he called me and every other liberal a “worthless piece of shit.” Are you willing to call out Toby for being belligerent and not contributing to an intelligent debate, or do apply the standards of decent conversation differently depending on whether one is a liberal or a conservative?
Quentin: “The accountants that work for the US governemnt are all liars? ** Of course the totally unbiased Heritage Foundation has the truth.”
The totally unbiased Heritage Foundation, and the Washington Post where the chart came from, got the figures from the government accountants (CBO) and the White House.
“I made no mention of whether the wars were on or off budget. Why did you bring it up?”
I thought you had brought it up before when we discussed this…I mentioned it to save us both unnecessary time and effort.
“You’re saying you won’t own up to the things you have posted on your own blog?
OK
Somehow, I’m not surprised. Principles have never been the strong suit of the TEA party.”
I’m saying I can’t and won’t respond to something in your memory! I cannot read minds…and frankly your ability to actually get what I have said is sketchy at best.
“Hmmm. And yet Post_Scripts is where we will find views and opinion ‘not found anywhere else.'”
There you go again expecting me and our readers to know what is in your mind!
“I skew the Left all the time.”
Hmmm…more mind-reading thoughts, perhaps? If you do Quentin it’s extemely rare on Post Scripts.
“The left doesn’t claim to have God and MORALITY on their side!”
No they more often believe themselves to be God and morally superior as well.
“The left doesn’t wave the flag like that BS Heritage Foundation does.”
And this is a problem? Why? Because an elitist like you can’t be bothered with expressions of love and appreciation for ones country? sounds a little like a god complex to me!
“The left doen’t claim St. Raygun was a conervative God!”
No they would rather make incompetents, boozers and womanizers their (political) gods.
“The Left are fools, but the Right gets up on the rooftops and proclaims their idiocy daily.”
More superior self-important yack? YAWN!
“Tell ya what: I have the city Plaza for Tax Day next year.
Would any of you fools care to debate?”
I wouldn’t bother! You don’t debate…you accuse. You inject sarcasm, dismissively. In short Quentin, you AVOID any real discussion of ideas.
As far as your participation at PS goes I think your posts are quite useful…and you are welcome here. I admit that I continuously await the few times when you do have things to say that contribute. I recall one time when you brought up “corporatism” and inspired a front page article, for instance.
Steve I have a feeling your entreaties regarding Quentin’s postings may have been inspired by a gentlemen’s desire to stand up for me…if so I thank you.
Since, according to Quentin, he is the only person in the world who isn’t an “idiot” his offerings become useful to our educational purposes. We would rather he add information or an intriguing opinion but since finding fault seems to be his life’s work we will continue to do the best we can with what he submits.
So, you don’t want to debate because I am dimissive.
Reading your complete lack of resposne to the points I brought up, I’d have to say you’re the one who fails in that area.
You simply cannot debate, Tina.
Just as you cannot name the pillars of conservatism and simultaneously name any member of Congress who upholds those pillars–even 50% of the time–you are scared to death to go against someone with facts. I’m not one of your brain-dead little fan who actually believes this crap you repost from Rush. You would have to prove it.
You would be completely unarmed trying to make St. Raygun out to be a conservative. He was not. Real conservatives know that.
NONE of what you say is true. You don’t even know how our government works.
But, if you don’t have the courage of your convictions, ask the chairman of the Republican Party–Mr. Fascist–Steve Thompson. He knows as little about our nation as you do.
Jack? Brother, I would love to.
If we remember that what is good for the goose is good for the gander, we would never have an issue.
If we remember to check our facts, we would never have an issue.
If we would all learn how government works, we would never have an issue.
If we all studied The Constitution–or whatever the subject–we would never have an issue.
If we all stuck to our own principles, we would never have an issue.
If we all put our country first–instead of party–we would never haver an issue.
I can do all these.
Here is the deal, Jack.
Tina posts crap. Tina posts lies. It’s one thing to be misinformed, and quite another to spread misinformation. To me, it is treason to post lies that will result in the destruction of America.
JFK said that even one ignorant voter is a threat to Democracy. What would you call a stupid voter? What would you call a voter who has been lied to, and so casts an ignorant or stupid vote? Would you agree that is the greater threat to democracy?
Yes?
Or, no?
Quentin: “Reading your complete lack of resposne to the points I brought up, I’d have to say you’re the one who fails in that area.”
Is that true? Let’s test it:
Not only did I resopond to your “point” but I proved your information (opinion) was totally inacurate. The thing that makes this one example extraordiary is the information about where the facts came from was right there in the article…how did someone as superior as you miss it? Could it be that your attitude makes you dismissive to the point of failing to see what is right in front of your nose?
“You simply cannot debate, Tina.”
You didn’t make much of a case for this point.
“Just as you cannot name the pillars of conservatism and simultaneously name any member of Congress who upholds those pillars–even 50% of the time–you are scared to death to go against someone with facts.”
Written like a typical authoritarian. I’m not your child, your student, nor am I your gofer. I am not required to dance to your tune. You don’t scare me at all…you do intrigue me.
I know you are a smart guy; unfortunately we rarely get to benefit from your knowledge and experience.
“Real conservatives know that.”
So now you speak for all of the “real” conservatives. Since it would seem to be such an exclusive club you’re going to have to share with us what it means to be a “real” conservative. We can’t read your mind!
“NONE of what you say is true.”
Oh dear…sounding a little extreme and out there…
“You don’t even know how our government works.”
You’re only discrediting yourself.
“But, if you don’t have the courage of your convictions, ask the chairman of the Republican Party–Mr. Fascist–Steve Thompson.”
Fascism according to Websters:
1: often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
I have never read anythin by Steve that would even remotely suggest fascism.
On the other hand you have written things that do suggest you prefer to “exercise strong autocratic or dictatorial control” when “debating” with me. And I responded that I am not your child or student.
“He knows as little about our nation as you do.”
If you know so much more why don’t you share it?
Then DO IT! But please keep in mind…your opinion about others means nothing in terms of truth or factual information as I demonstrated above. It is just your opinion. You are free to express yourself here. All I ask is that you allow others the same.
“Tina posts crap. Tina posts lies. It’s one thing to be misinformed, and quite another to spread misinformation.”
You have not shown that anything in this post is a lie.
Your opinion about historical information does not count as fact nor does your attitude toward an institution, The Heritage Foundation, count as a mechanism to discredit the many learned men and women who do research for that organization. You reveal yourself to be incredibly biased and loyal only to your own sense of superiority!
I never suggested censorship Mr. Colgan. What I suggested was more comparable to asking a rude drunk to leave the bar before he offended all of the other patrons. Jack and Tina’s blog is not your free soapbox and you have no real 1st Amendment right to offend people here. You have your own blog and it’s up to you to entice readers to it.
You ocntinually refuse to debate facts and instead throw around insults. FASCIST, RACIST, IDIOT, are just three of your favorite terms that you have used towards others who are trying to debate real ideas with you. I realize being on the losing end of a debate tends to provoke this kind of hatred and language, but the hosts of this blog can and do have the right to ask you to comport yourself as more of a gentleman.
That Jack has so much tolerance for your worthless vulgarity is a testament to him. And Tina, btw, has posted more thoughtful insights to how government works in just one of her writings than I’ve seen you do all year. You’re not just a jerk and a democrat hack, you’re a bad writer.
Chris,
If Jack follows my suggestion and makes the decision to ask Quentin to leave, then I suppose it would be up to him to decide if he has to ask anyone who posts something rude to leave. Quentin’s statements in this particular blog chain got my attention and I spoke my mind. I don’t feel compelled to speak my mind on everyone, but those who call me a fascist and a racist do tend to float to the top in my opinion.
Steve, I referred this question back to Tina via our comments section. It was her call and she would like Quentin to remain with us, if he wishes. Tina is a gracious lady. This is a kind gesture that I personally hope will be repaid in kind. You might want to refer to the unposted comments section for more details as her decision was also directed to you for standing up for her. You will probably have to scroll back a page to find it. .