And the lessons for our students? I suppose the teachers and doctors would say they are teaching the students about standing up for ones “rights”. But the greater messages also include, 1.How to use intimidation and bullying to block the process of government, 2. That it’s acceptable to lie and collude to acquire a phony excuse for your absense from work, and 3. That it’s acceptable to shirk your responsibilities as a teacher.
If citizens did this every time a bill came up for a vote in any legislature we would have mob rule. They have no respect for the political process, the elected officials, or the voters of the state. The cowardly Democrats who fled and shirked their duties are no better.
Wow!
Such TOTAL disrespect for the will of the voters!It’s like they’re saying “He’s mot MY governor!”
Where would they get such a silly notion?
You tell us Q, you seem to think you are the knower of all things.
Here’s what the teachers are asking of their fellow citizens…most of them ARE NOT CEO’s pulling down Fat salaries and bonuses. Many of them have to pay for their own healthcare and fund their own retirement plans:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/the_battle_of_wisconsin.html
Now you tell me Q…who is being greedy? Who doesn’t give a rats behind whether their benefits package puts undue burden on taxpayers. Who refuses to act like responsible adult citizens, carrying their own burdens rather than depending on others? Who is making the state a socialist paradise for the select few at the expense of others?
Some pigs are more equal than others isn’t the motto we adopted in 1776.
It’s more than a bit disturbing that the President, a servant of all citizens of the United States, would use his personal promotional and money making operation to side with these citizens against their elected officials and the rest of the people of the state. Not at all presidential.
Hmm, health care prices a problem?
NOT the fault of the teachers.
Not enough money in the Treasury?
NOT the fault of the teachers. Ther WAS enough money before the governor gave 130 million in tax cuts to his corporate donors.
WHO is being greedy?
NOT the teachers.
If you are so hot on getting the money back to the taxpayers, why don’t you advocate for that? The 130 million in curs DON’T go to the people you seem to care about.
“That money will create jobs!”
Will it?
Bush gave his pals $870 BILLION in cuts. Where are the jobs, Tina?
The teachers make $26 an hour–a babysitter would make $150 an hour.
I love how the neoconned will embrace socialism as long as it’s dressed up to look like “They’re making too much money!!!”
Yesterday, you hated socialism–today you love it!
Yesterday, you said we can’t pay cops amd firemen enough.
Today it’s “Government workers are greedy wealth suckers!”
Can you be consistent from day to day?
They make more than you because they are better educated.
You make less because you have been screwed by your Republican buddies with the help of their Democrat buddies.
Who is being greedy?
YOU.
You want more money?
The teachers don’t have it to give.
It isn’t just the teachers that are demonstrating,It is all of the Wisconsin employees who are unionized.
Their benefit package and salaries are breaking the state, same as it is in other states.
Wisconsin governor just asks the union employees pay a little of their Medical premiums and Pension, Why is that wrong?
The “Maddening” crowd comes from all over Trunka called for union employees to come to Wisconsin ,and demonstrate.
Hopefully by Tuesday things will let up, There are other people who work in Wisconsin not under Trunka’s Union.
Not to mention the parents of the kids who are not in school, having to scrounge for “sitters”.
“Q” you hated the Tea Party’s demonstration, who is\was against Obama’s Health Care Bill, why did you hate them, but not these people?
Quentin I never said the rising cost of healtcare was the teachers fault. One could make the case that most vote Democrat, however, and the massive healthcare entitlement created by Democrats HAS played a significant role in causing the cost of healthcare to rise…and dramatically! Dems also favor having the employer pay healthcare premiums taking the customer out of the loop. And finally Dems support and are in bed with (tort) lawyers who drive malpractice insurance premiums through the roof.
see CATO: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa211.html
So you see, teachers, as a large contributor and support base of the Democrat Party, and because of their spread the wealth (spend other peoples money) mentality, have significantly contributed to the rising cost of healthcare.
Enough money in the treasury? Phftttt!
Your next alligation is equally absurd.
When corporations are confident about the future (not being threatened with excessive taxes and regulation) they INVEST their profits to expand business. The economy, jobs, and tax revenues also increase. It so basic. Because you can’t stand the thought of CEO’s making big bonuses and perks you would deprive the entire nation this much needed investment and job growth. Like I said absurd. The American people create jobs…presidents do not.
I advocate for small government…therefore…I do advocate for putting money, and the responsibility for it, back into the hands of the American people.
Jobs under Bush…
http://www.american.com/archive/2010/october/a-con-job-on-jobs
A timeline of events under Bush:
http://libertyworks.com/deceptive-jobs-comparison-obama-vs-bush/
The remainder of your rant is not worth my time.
To the teachers in our readership:
I do appreciate the job you do every day, especially those who really take their profession seriously. I have not come here to bash teachers or to claim they make too much money. I have not come here to call teachers greedy. (I asked Quentin about greed becasue he seems unable to grasp the concept that anyone can be greedy. A number of teachers seem to be unwilling to pay even a small percentage of their own pension and healthcare costs. This does not seem reasonable to me.
I came here to point out the basic inequity of the deal the union bosses have made in terms of pensions and healthcare being supplied, for life, by the taxpayer.
I am also against collective barganing for pensions and healthcare becasue in any given year those cost can and do bust budgets. I also think that collective bargaining with government is wrong because the taxpayer does not get to sit at the bargaining table. His representation is often made up of those who work with unions to get elected.
Actually I believe that all people should provide their own retirement and health insurance and I believe if we did that, if we removed the big bureaucracy of government from the equation, costs would go down.
The big government experiment is a failure. It’s time to get back to personal accountability and responsibility and much smaller government.
Q:”You make less because you have been screwed by your Republican buddies with the help of their Democrat buddies.”
Yes…if only we could put Q in charge!
Harriet?
You’re very kind to ask. Thank you.
I support protesters who are out there for their own sakes; protesters who are not sponsored by corporate shills to go out and protest against their own best interests.
I would ask you why you have no problem with people who deny the democratic system by saying, “Obama is not MY president.”
“Quentin I never said the rising cost of healtcare was the teachers fault. One could make the case that most vote Democrat, however, and the massive healthcare entitlement created by Democrats HAS played a significant role in causing the cost of healthcare to rise…and dramatically!”
FINALLY
FINALLY!
You have gotten it through your head that partisanship is the problem!!!
God bles you, girl.
I KNEW you’d figure it out someday.
Now, the solution is to end partisanship–to quit BSing your readers and start telling them the whole truth.
And if you’re not part of the solution . . .
“you would deprive the entire nation this much needed investment and job growth.”
NO!
The CEOs who have already received 870billion of our dollars have deprived the this nation of much needed growth and investment.
I wasn’t given the choice. I wasn’t given the money!
Tina, YOU are the problem.
Right on Harriet and Tina. Quentin is incapable of having a rational thought or present an issue that is not contradictory to its self.
His condemning Tea Party gatherings held at the Chico plaza, while supporting union members and teachers calling in sick so they can invade the chambers of Wisconsin validates my statement. Did I not read he has boasted of reserving the plaza this year just so the Tea Party cant?
As I have stated a couple of time before, I am one of those rare individuals who survived a career in education as a republican. I served for 15 years on the negotiations team and 4 years as union president, and we never negotiated anything except our calendar, salaries and benefits. If our health care cost went up our COLA was reduced or nonexistent. We went many years without any pay raise at all. Teachers could negotiate the number of students in their classes, but negotiating over quantity issues didnt exist for support staff. I always thought if an instructor was being paid to hold a class of 40 students, shouldnt their salary be reduced when only 20 registered.
The state controlled what we contributed to our PERS pension. It was never a proposal brought to the table by either sides. We gave 7% every pay check. Period! For me that was just short of 25 years worth. I do remember around 2000, when PERS was so plush with funds the state told the school districts to stop their contributions, but we still paid.
If CA as one of the most liberal states in the country is in control of its state employees pensions I see no problem with the state of Wisconsin doing the same.
“But since Obamas first full month in office, February 2009, net private job creation has been 2,990,000.”
I had to double check your numbers, Tina. You are correct.
Remeber TARP?
The $700 billion in bank welfare given by your boy, Bush in October of ’08? FOUR months before February ’09?
Remember that?
I know you know nothing of business, but I will ask anyway.
Where do you think businesses get money to create jobs?
$700 billion in corporate welfare and we LOST three million jobs.
Yup. Your boys made real wise use out of our money.
Let’s give ’em some more!
You’re like Charlie Brown, Tina.
Worse, you want US to go along with your delusions!
Those fascists are going to keep holding that football out and telling you,
“This time for sure, Charlie Brown! I’m going to use that money to create jobs.”
You come running up, they pull the ball away, and you want us to fall flat on our collective ass along with you.
You’re a great American, Tina!
Well, you see dear. the difference is that the teachers have a LEGITIMATE beef.
HUGE difference, OK?
You guys in the plaza were trying to blame Obama for the mistakes of the Republicans–well, BOTH parties. The folks in wisconsin are assigning the correct blame.
You gave 7% of every paycheck? Crimea River!
How much Social Security was taken out?
Y’know, the rest of the world is taxed on the $100 they earned when the FDIC was taken out.
That means they paid income taxes on $100 when they only received $93.25.
YOU, Peggy paid income taxes on $93–not $100–saving you quite a bit over that 25 years.
PLUS, your return from CALPERS is FAR greater than FDIC
Kwityerbitchin’!
YOU madam are the reason I didn’t support you on the Plaza. I only support people who know what they are talking about; those who aren’t hypocrites.
Quentin, what was your salary at Chico State?
Hey Q guess what? I paid soc. sec. too!! The Feds took out the same amount as most everyone else. They also took out SDI. So, we paid out the max to both state and fed in addition to our pension. I get my statement every year from soc. sec. with the breakdown of my earnings and the amount I’ll get when I turn 67.
This is just another example of you speaking about something you know nothing about.
Over 68,000 people have mobilized in Madison and progressive organizers are planning solidarity efforts across the country to denounce Gov. Scott Walkers (R-WI) radical attempt to bust Wisconsins public sector unions. So far, Walker has refused to compromise, even though Wisconsin labor leaders are already coming to the table with large concessions. How can Walker press on, even with public opinion beginning to turn against him? Much of Walkers critical political support can be credited to a network of right-wing fronts and astroturf groups in Wisconsin supported largely by a single foundation in Milwaukee: the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, a $460 million conservative honey pot dedicated to crushing the labor movement.
Walker has deeply entwined his administration with the Bradley Foundation. The Bradley Foundations CEO, former state GOP chairman Michele Grebe, chaired Walkers campaign and headed his transition. But more importantly, the organizations lining up to support Walker are financed by Bradley cash:
The MacIver Institute is a conservative nonprofit that has provided rapid-response attacks on those opposed to Walkers power grab. MacIver staffers produced a series of videos attacking anti-Walker protesters, including one mocking children. Naturally, the videos have become grist for Fox News and conservative bloggers. In addition, MacIver created studies claiming that Wisconsin teachers and nurses are paid too generously and other reports claiming that collective bargaining rights hurt taxpayers. The Bradley Foundation has supported MacIver with over $300,000 in grants over the last three years alone.
The Wisconsin Policy Research Institute is a major conservative think tank helping Walker win support from the media. The Institute has funded polls to bolster Walkers position, and like MacIver, produced a flurry of attack videos against Walkers political adversaries and a series of pieces supporting his drive against the states labor movement. Over the weekend, the Institute secured a pro-Walker item in the New York Times. The Wisconsin Policy Research Institute is supported with over $10 million in grants from the Bradley Foundation.
As ThinkProgress has reported, the powerful astroturf group Americans for Prosperity not only helped to elect Walker, but bused in Tea Party supporters to hold a pro-Walker demonstration on Saturday. In 2005, the Bradley Foundation earmarked funds to help Koch Industries establish the Americans for Prosperity office in Wisconsin. From 2005-2009, the Bradley Foundation has given about $300,000 to Americans for Prosperity Wisconsin (also called Fight Back Wisconsin).
It should be no surprise that Walkers radicalism is boosted by Bradley money. Today, the Bradley Foundation is controlled by a group of establishment Republicans, along with Washington Post columnist George Will. However, the Foundations agenda still reflects the extremist views of its founder, Harry Bradley. Although he passed away in 1965, Harry, a member of one Wisconsins most powerful families and a key financier of nationalist hate groups, would have eagerly applauded Walkers union-busting agenda.
Harry, along with his older brother Lynde, started the Allen-Bradley company, a major manufacturer of electronics and engine parts. After a bitter strike in 1939, Harry became increasingly political. Although his company boomed because of World War 2-era contracts from the government, Harry abhorred any intrusions into his business: especially labor organizers (who he termed communists in his memoirs), as well as pressure to hire women and minorities in his plants, a move he resisted until his death. Responding to the civil rights movement and liberalism in society, Harry became obsessed with right-wing politics. According to scholar William Schambra, Harry even studied Lenin and Stalin for ideas on how to wage guerrilla warfare against the left. He joined candy manufacturer Robert Welch to be one of the founding members of the John Birch Society (along with Fred Koch, the father of Koch Industries executives Charles and David Koch), and financed other right-wing firebrands. Media Transparencys profile of the Bradley Foundation sheds light on its founder:
Robert Welch, who founded the Society in 1958, was a regular speaker at Allen-Bradley sales meetings. Harry distributed Birchite literature, as did Fred Loock, another key figure at the company. They also supported the Australian doctor Fred Schwarz, founder of the Christian Anti-Communist Crusade; William F. Buckley, Jr.s National Review; and a right-wing Midwest radio program produced by anti-communist producer Bob Siegrist. Harrys main political targets were World Communism and the U.S. federal government, not necessarily in that order. His political philosophy was laissez-faire capitalism, and he was strongly opposed to anything that might restrict his freedom to conduct his business as he saw fit. His promotion of freedom, however, did not extend to his own workers. While women had worked at the plant since 1918, and made up nearly a third of the workforce during World War II, they werent paid the same as men. They finally sued in 1966, charging the company paid less to women than male workers operating the same machines. A federal judge ruled in their favor. Allen-Bradley was one of the last major Milwaukee employers to racially integrate, and then only through public and legal pressure. By 1968, when the companys workforce had grown to more than 7,000, Allen-Bradley employed only 32 Blacks and 14 Latinos.
After the Allen-Bradley company was purchased by Rockwell International in 1985, the Bradley Foundation surged with an additional $290 million in funds. The money has gone on to finance ideas held strongly by Harry Bradley: anti-affirmative action scholars, anti-multiculturalism books (the Bradley Foundation underwrote the notoriously racist book The Bell Curve), anti-welfare campaigns, privatization efforts, neoconservative fronts, and tens of millions for groups opposed to public and private sector unions, particular in the field of education. As conservative writer Al Regnery has observed, conservatives have relied on the Bradley Foundation to finance the backbone of radical policy ideas that first take root in Wisconsin but are then championed by Republicans around the country. Gov. Scott Walkers current fight to crush labor rights in Wisconsin is the fulfillment of Harry Bradleys John Birch Society dream.
So, you got TWO funds for your retirement and you are still unhappy?
Do tell!
“Some people would bitch if ya hung ’em with a brand new rope.”
Do youself–a taxpayer–a favor.
Give it back!
Y’know, when I was a kid, I was taught that you didn’t ask others what they made. It was intensely rude.
I am trying to imagine how it is relevant to Wisconsin.
I don’t know why people think I worked for Chico State, but a misinformed TEA partier is nothing new, is it?
I worked for the Research Foundation as an unbenefited hourly worker.
I won’t ask how much you make by gouging Chicoans for the substandard and dangerous houses you are renting out. It is rude.
Look at these numbers carefully.
How much money is NOT being spent on creating jobs?
We are being lied to daily, “Rich people will use their money to create jobs.”
Apparently, they have better uses for their money in Wisconsin!
Thank you for your service Quentin. We always appreciate the working people. I hope you are making enough to buy your own insurance and retirement at your hourly job.
You raise an interesting issue about housing. Please give us some examples of price gouging exploitation of Chicoans re the substandard and dangerous houses rich folk are renting out. Please… name some names, give us some addresses, tell us specifically the neglect here and how the tenants are suffering, lets expose the evil rich!!! That is….if there is any evil? I have no doubt there are substandard houses in Chico, but most of them are in Chapman town and they are owner occupied and were built prior to 1940. They can’t pass code, but then again they are old and have a lot of differed maintenance – you want to force them to fix their own houses?
Renters have rights, so there’s not excuse for substandard rentals. If something is broken they can demand that it be fixed and if the landlord doesn’t they can hire it done and deduct it off the rent – that’s the law. If you happen to own, its on you and some places fall into disrepair because the people can’t afford to keep them up. Landlords must KEEP them up.
I bought and sold property (and rented out houses) in Chico for years and that’s been my experience.
Anybody can make any claim, but backing it up is always another story isn’t it? There’s your challenge Q, show us the proof of your claim.
Quentin, the Tea Party began with the Health Care Pelosi and Obama crammed through Congress, they first protested at their congress person’s town hall to no avail, One thing lead to another and the Tea Party came to be, What Corporate Shills are you talking about?
I donated to the Tea Party to help defray costs for travel, I cannot attend any of the protests myself.
You say you support protestors who are there on their own sake, are you serious? Quentin, Trunka and his folks prompted the people to come you know full well there are more than Wisconsin folks there. Trunka and other Union “Big Shots” scare me, they can be a “bit vicious”.to say the least, been there done that.
Back to the Tea Party a minute, I am glad they came about, maybe we can stream line the Obama Health Care, as a Medicare Recipient this new HealthCAre, will hurt most of us.
If it is so good, why did Congress exempt themselves, and by the way all, of those union people are also exempt.
Seems to me that congress could have fixed the problem much more simply by addressing the issues with the people who “fell through the cracks”, those that cannot afford to buy their own, but make too much for state assistance.
Leave the rest of us alone.
Quentin it’s incredible that you would choose this story to start a pecker match about job creation under Bush v Obama. Obama spent stimulus money to bail out his UNION buddies, payback for the election. He knew states were in trouble with underfunded pensions and healthcare so he “saved” government jobs kicking the unsustainable can down the road. When stimulus money runs out to save jobs what happens next? The same problem still exists two years later. It wasnt a stimulus program it was a life support scheme.
The governor of Wisconsin is doing his best to save those teacher jobs permanently but if the Dems and the union refuse to take his deal LAYOFFS WILL HAPPEN. The piper will be paid when promises are made that cannot be kept.
As for the private sector you can toss around any figure you want about Obama creating jobs. It doesnt matter if the jobs created are insufficient to keep unemployment numbers low. What the private sector knows from experience: joblessness is the BIG story under Obama.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=abzHCz7Sl.84
Bigger-than-forecast job losses pushed the June unemployment rate to a 26-year high of 9.5 percent after Obama promised to create or save 3.5 million jobs over two years.
Bush TARP money is a drop in the bucket compared to the Obama stimulus. TARP money has been payed back:
http://247wallst.com/2010/06/11/the-tarp-money-back-guarantee/
And as for Obamas stimulus helping the economy heres the CBO in Feb 2009 on prospects for the Obama stimulus:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/04/cbo-obama-stimulus-harmful-over-long-haul/
If what we are experiencing now is help in the short term the coming long term misery wont be pretty. IN case you haven’t noticed unemployment remains high, banks continue to fail, and ugly inflation is beginning to creep.
Anyone interested can find a good article at Heritage on the current economic situation:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2011/02/Heritage-Employment-Report-January-Report-Shows-Some-Thawing/
Moving on
“FINALLY”
Finally my a**!!! First you misrepresent what I have written and then you claim victory after I correct you…cheeky!
“You have gotten it through your head that partisanship is the problem!!!”
Oh really…and how did I do that?
You, who rarely have anything of substance to say, and when you do usually fail to offer backup evidence, are preaching to me once again about “truth”. I told you before Q…we pursue truth here but we don’t claim to own it. Your information about Bush in this string has been incomplete, out of context, and flat out wrong…basically the talking points of the political left.
Here is a little fact about Obama stimulus that most media never bothered to tell us:
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/little-known-fact-obama039s-failed-stimulus-program-cost-more-iraq-war
With very little to show for it.
The CEOs who have already received 870billion of our dollars have deprived the this nation of much needed growth and investment.
Thats half true. The money is there to spend BUT Obama healthcare and green policies are causing business to run scared. NOBODY wants to invest! Uncertainty about taxes, regulations, and extra costs for his big idea policies will cause losses not profits. Make government smaller and watch the economy take off!
Im not the problem, Quentin. Liberal progressive, BIG GOVERNMENT, spread the wealth, class envy, do-gooder polices are the problem.
Quentin for the record I have never been in favor of taxpayer money being given to banks or business. I was more inclined to let them fail.
After I learned of the major reason for the housing/credit collapse, however, I had reservations. This was said to be an international crisis and America was, in large part, responsible for putting toxic instruments into the system. For that reason alone I thought it might be the responsible thing to do to enact TARP. Had that money remained under Bush’s purvue I’m certain it would have been better managed. The OBama stimulus is another matter…money tossed in a toilet!
Q: How can Walker press on, even with public opinion beginning to turn against him?
Sorry Qthe public supports Walker.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/february_2011/48_back_gop_governor_in_wisconsin_spat_38_side_with_unions
“Much of Walkers critical political support can be credited to a network of right-wing fronts and astroturf groups in Wisconsin supported largely by a single foundation in Milwaukee: the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, a $460 million conservative honey pot dedicated to crushing the labor movement.”
Source please! Sounds like the usual leftist horsepucky!
“Gov. Scott Walkers current fight to crush labor rights…” (emphasis mine)
This is a gross misstatement of what Walker has proposed. Walker is not out to “crush” anything but the busted budget!
The Walker proposal is stated in plain language in this Heritage article:
http://blog.heritage.org/2011/02/18/with-governor-walkers-proposal-wisconsin-once-again-leads-the-nation-in-education-reform/
So much for your devotion to truth!
Meanwhile students are not being given an education. Some teachers brought their students to “protest” with them. Most had no idea what they were doing there.
The DNC and Obamas promotional organization bussed bodies in to make the numbers look bigger.
The Bradley Foundation mission statement:
http://www.bradleyfdn.org/foundations_mission.asp
Sounds dangerous, huh?
Really Q, even for you!
Quentin, you really are an idiot. SDI is State Disability Insurance and not another pension plan.
My origional post was to address the topic and make a comparison of both states. Your responses were meant only to attack me and everyone who wrote expressing their points of views, showing your complete lack of having the mental ability to comprehend the issue.
Your rantings are just a waste of time. When you have nothing to contribute but the constant attempts to discredit others your true agenda of feeding your own ego comes through loud and clear.
Have a good day, I wish you well. Now on to more important matters.
My God, Woman!
Please tell me you are kidding.
You WERE telling me how you were paying both SS and State retirement.
Geez, no wonder our kids are stupid!
“The Walker proposal is stated in plain language in this Heritage article:
http://blog.heritage.org/2011/02/18/with-governor-walkers-proposal-wisconsin-once-again-leads-the-nation-in-education-reform/”
So much for your devotion to truth!
Jesus Aitch! Girl!
How many times do I have to tell you the difference between ARTICLES and OPINIONS?
You want my source?
Load it into Google and find out!
AGAIN, I won’t waste time giving you sources. You waste our time–intelligent people–with ad hominem attacks on the sources.
You don’t seem to pay attention, Tina.
And this is “Excellence” in communication?
Wow, I am stunned.
Q: “How many times do I have to tell you the difference between ARTICLES and OPINIONS?”
You really can’t read can you Q? The following is not opinion it is fact:
I charge you to prove that I, and Heritage, are wrong about these FACTS!
“Wow, I am stunned.”
This could be an ongoing problem for you…maybe you should have your head examined!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piPkgAUo0w
The outgoing NEA General Counsel speaks about the NEA.
I would say he is a hypocrit as he took the money for 41 years.Nothing since has changed, Interesting.