by Jack
President Karzai said the Afghan people have lost trust in the Americans and is demanding that all foreign soldiers be removed from Afghan villages to the main US bases around Kabul.
The announcement from Karzai’s office said Panetta had “once again paid his condolences to the Afghan President and to the people of Afghanistan on the behalf of his government and his people for the Panjwai incident,” which Panetta termed as cruel and brutal. President Karzai said the US forces should think about withdrawing completely from Afghanistan by 2013. He said we are no longer needed or wanted.
Yesterday Panetta ordered about 200 Marines to disarm while he met with them at Camp Leatherneck. That insult caused a serious drop in moral and many soldiers are wondering why they are there?
This is a curious situation. The Afhans don’t want us there. The majority of the US public does not want us there. Obama’s leftist coalition has never wanted us there. Who does, and why are we still there? We should have the planes loaded up today and be out by tomorrow.
I sure don’t know why the US wants to get into another war with Iran. Obviously we suck at it.
Sounds like a good idea to me…I’ve lost all patients with this situation.
It’s not that our war-fighters suck at fighting, its our politicians. When it comes to 3 simple little things, but that are really important… the when, where and how… politicians really suck.
Well, I have to tell you, I got a real kick out of Karzai’s proposal that Afghan security forces should take charge of the rurals … when … the most extravagantly heinous corruption of the Afghan government security forces … in the rurals … moved the rurals to prefer the Taliban … which is where we came in.
Tis a lost cause … but we must be plain about just exactly why it is a lost cause.
Libby between you and me the real tragedy here isn’t our lost dollars or even our lost lives, that pales when compared to the Afghan population enslaved by an ideology a thousand years old that still suppresses women’s rights, denies freedom, education, and encourages perversion….all in the name of God.
War is never a smooth sailing operation but my goodness….leadership! This has all fallen apart under weak leadership. Bush made errors but as Commander in Chief his commitment and dedication was solid. There was never anything wimpy about him. He was respected by leaders in the ME and therefore able to negotiate successfully and give our troops the support they require and should get.
Our presidents casual (disinterested?) complacent, apologetic style doesn’t inspire discipline, trust, or certainty. If these are absent…well, we can see how our efforts have deteriorated.
Question: Could the corruption be part of what made Bush leave what Obama has called “the good war”?
I wonder how much we should ask of a soldier? The man accused of the mass shooting was deployed three times to Iraq, that’s a lot of violence in a short period! Then we sent him to Afghanistan and he endured more violence. Was it too much? I think so, everybody is different, but clearly at least in my mind this man just had too much traumatic injury to his mind.
He suffering injuries to his head and we don’t know how that may have affected his thinking. He also lost part of his foot . This was all in Iraq and on separate occasions.
Just before the shooting incident he witnessed his friend suffer a mortal injury thanks to an enemy explosive device that blew his leg off… and finally this soldier cracked. He went after the people who caused it, but he started shooting people indiscriminately. The villagers were considered Taliban sympathizers and yes. it was awful. But, according to the accounts leaking out he thought he was acting under orders. He seemed confused, bewildered and couldn’t recall all the details of what happened.
This is a clear case of temporary insanity if there ever was one!
He’s not the first to react this way, it’s happened repeatedly in every war, not often on our side, but it does happen. The guy should be confined to a hospital and helped to recover. Once he is back to normal he should be discharged from the service honorably with a medical. Leavenworth was not designed for these kind of men.
I would like to see us just get the heck out of Afghanistan. We did what we came to do – we won, now the mission is confused and its getting absurd.
I know it doesn’t help at this point to say, “I told Bush so,” but it is burning like puke in my mouth. I liked GW, but he took us into this war, and for all the wrong reasons. He either lied about WMD’s or he was an idiot for his staff.
Yes, Obama is fully to blame for every day since he took office – he said he’d bring the troops home as soon as he was in the White House, and now we see he was lying, for the usual reason, like they all lie.
That’s why Ron Paul is not “electable” – he’s not a liar, and people can’t stand the truth.
The truth is, we went over there under false pretenses for oil and other natural resources, we went in there to pound those people “back to the Stone Age,” and take their stuff. Then, when we destroyed their agriculture and their industry, they’d be dependent on us for new stuff! But, like the Vietnamese, they showed us our weakness – we’re a lot better at fighting on our own dirt, for our own rights, than we are at killing other people and taking their stuff. Good for us. God Bless our troops.
But let’s all get ready for the ones who will snap after they get home.
Juanita I can understand your indignation and the emotions that move you toward physical responses. I also join you in your distaste for liars, political lies being particularly repugnant since they can easily harm the entire country and in particular in this case young Americans in the military.
Having said that I have to take exception to some of what you have said. Regarding weapons of mass destruction you are free to think whatever you like but history makes you seem brilliant only in hind sight. Intelligence agencies in many countries believed Hussein had WMD. We knew he had used them to murder his own people. The UN had passed several resolutions demanding Saddam Hussein turn over his WMD to inspectors. All during the Clinton administration while UN inspectors were searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq the world was certain he had them. Late in the Clinton administration we, along with Britian, were bombing installations in Iraq that we believed had the potential to house or make WMD. See Newsbusters for references to statements about WMD:
http://newsbusters.org/node/9071
Now I suppose you can continue to think we went to war “for oil” but once again history and the record would suggest that is just a liberal taking point:
https://news.fidelity.com/news/news.jhtml?cat=Markets.Int&articleid=201110311239CNN_____MONEY____-2011-10-28-news-international-iraq_oil-index_htm&IMG=N
Had Bush been the evil war for oil Commander in Chief dedicated to Emperialism he would surely have dictated the terms under which the Iraqi’s sold their oil or just claimed Iraq and it’s oil for the US.
Instead 90% of revenues from oil will stay in Iraq. Now if only Iraq had not been declared a dumb war, and the soldiers who faught and died to secure the country dismissed in the process, and had we continued to work with the leaders to keep itr secure as we did in Japan and Germany for many years following the war, it would not now bw for naught.
“…like the Vietnamese, they showed us our weakness…”
That wasn’t the Vietnamese; it was the communists working with the American left and media.
I cannot believe the crap the people of this nation have swallowed, nor can I believe the lack of resolve.
You are right about one thing, Juanita. We shouldn’t becomne involved in another war as long as we lack the grit to conduct it with firm resolve. (instead we will cower in the face of our enemiees)
The question on my mind is whether we have the resolve to defeat the very elements within our own country that weaken us and undermine our efforts with sensational charges like “war for oil” and “Bush lied”.
The entire ME is a mess following the election of that element. War is never a first response but neither is it always avoidable. Putting it the hands of those who blame america and believe apologizing and appeasement works better is folly. See here:
http://cnsnews.com/node/106552
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/04/obama-in-iraq/
abc news in 2009
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/4/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mounts-comeback/
What comes next? Depends on what is really going on in terror circles and who is elected in Novemeber. I’d prefer a strong leader to a casual appeaser if the threat continues.
Do we think the threat continues? How severe is it? What can be done about it? What form does it take? Are we being kept in the dark?
” Intelligence agencies in many countries believed Hussein had WMD.”
That’s like my kids saying, “But mom, we really thought there was a fox in the chicken house when we burned it down…”
I’m sorry, I’m tired of hearing that old line. Why won’t you admit, our country committed a horrible crime, and now these people rightfully hate us for it? When will we apologize and stop screwing these people over? Now the media is trying to make a hero out of a guy who went nuts and murdered children – if he’d gone nuts at a school ground stateside, then we’d be hearing a different tune.
What would you do if the Mexican army took over California one night, and showed up at your door the next day telling you to billet some soldiers?
Juanita: “That’s like my kids saying, “But mom, we really thought there was a fox in the chicken house when we burned it down…”
Oh please. It isn’t the same at all. Pretending, through the powers of a child’s imagination, that a fox was in the coup to cover your ass is not the same as having hard core evidence and information gathered by professionals in various countries, having knowledge of a pattern of use of WMD, and mass murder and treachery against even his own people. It is not the same as knowing that Hussein was acting in violation of a previously signed ceasefire agreement and had ordered the assassination of GHWB. It is not the same as knowing Hussein had ties to al Qaeda.
What you are actually suggesting is that the President of the United States be a mind reader,a fortune teller, and a seer in order to always make perfect decisions. The President acted and it turned out that SOME of that information was incorrect…not all of it was.
“Why won’t you admit, our country committed a horrible crime…”
Because that’s BS and it denigrates not only the past president but also the young men and women who were served pour country in a difficult war that ultimately resulted in the liberation of Iraq and the destruction of many bad actors known as terrorists inn case you’ve forgotten.
“…and now these people rightfully hate us for it”
What they hate is that we let them down at the end (the stupid war), lowered expectations and support, and opened the door for terrorist and oppressive radical elements to rise and take over again. Radicals and terrorist always hate…what about the people they are oppressing?
“When will we apologize and stop screwing these people over”
President Obama has apologized (stupidly) and the situation has only gotten worse…they don’t respect weak appeasement. But how have we screwed these people over? Under Saddam they were being shot in the head and tortured for nothing other than a show of power. Their children were shot in the head or disappeared to be used by Saddams sons as entertainment. They had no means of making a decent living. WE liberated the country, our troops were well trained and did everything they could to avoid harming civilians, we built schools and hospitals, we helped them set up a government, we trained a security force…and then our leadership changed and we abandoned them in a show of weakness and disinterest.
How typical of many Americans since WWII to turn against our military and America by painting a completely scewed picture of our mission, efforts and intentions. War is never a perfect endeavor but America is not an evil country and it’s efforts are certainly not anything close to the horrendous evils perpetrated by terrorist elements and Saddam Hussein. Like it or not we cannot hide from these elements as some would suggest. They live amongst us and they intend to do us harm and rule the world. Bush made decisions to move in the direction of irradication of these elements, Unfortunately before the end of these four years I fear all we accomplished will have been undone and we will be back at square one (or in a much worse position).
“Now the media is trying to make a hero out of a guy who went nuts and murdered children…”
Now the media is doing all they can to cover for the President. They are using the accurate record of this man as ameans to an end…Obama gets re-elected. They don’t want you to consider this incident an abu graib. If he had an (R) after his name the narrative would be damning!
“What would you do if the Mexican army took over California one night, and showed up at your door the next day telling you to billet some soldiers?”
I don’t know what I would do without one hell of a lot more information. The question is emotional asking for a response to a supposed equivalent that does not exist.
Moral equivalency is a liberal construct. It denies right and wrong and muddies the waters. It also sets us up for a lot of decay and conditions that are horrible to endure. I’m done with that! It’s time we learned once again about right and wrong and standing for what is right.
Okay, Tina, you know EVERYTHING, I don’t know NOTHING!
You are ALWAYS RIGHT Tina!
My cousin is only a news correspondent, living in Kabul, I wouldn’t know anything, cause he doesn’t work for FOX.
C’mon girls, you are on the same side….play nice.
Juanita I disagree. You know a lot! My disagreement with your opinion does not mean I think you are wrong or that you know “nothing”. If I came across that way I apologize.
I was very upset during the Vietnam era about the way our troops were treated by protesters, the media and even the leadership that responded to protesters rather than doing what was necessary to win the war. It takes tremendous courage to do what you think is right even when the odds and opinion are against you and we didn’t seem to have leaders and people in authority or in our media that could do that. This colors my perspective and outlook quite a bit.
Or…maybe I’ve just been hanging out with too many competitive, contentious men ; ) My coworkers certainly don’t hold back in discussions with each other.
I appreciate your honesty, Juanita, and the fact that you just lay it out there. Your opinion is as valid and important as mine (or anyone elses)!!! I enjoy reading what you post and I’m very glad you participate here.