From the WashingtonTimes. . .
“Pay your fair share” … Let’s examine that gem of a statement. Let’s take two equally intelligent people. One will dedicate himself to study at the college and post-graduate level, will put in hundreds, perhaps thousands of hours of study and will some day become a medical doctor, veterinarian, or dentist who, in private practice, will create 5-10 jobs to boot (receptionists, nurses, technicians, financial personnel, therapists, etc.).
All the while saying, “Hey…you didn’t create that!”
The other will choose to find only an average job, will take the path of least resistance, will party with friends each night and overdo it on the weekends. This person will create no jobs along the way.
Now, we will extract 52% of the income of one of these and 0-4% from the other in federal, state, and local taxes.
And that is what the US government is saying to our youth who decide to dedicate themselves at the collegiate level: Study and work hard and you will have the government come in and extort more of your earnings.
Meanwhile, the second person is allowed, is encouraged, to sit on his porch sipping a beer, wasting a life. With no incentive to work any harder. No incentive to take a risk in business.
The government, the Democratic Party’s government, the Obama Government is sending this message to our youth today. The government will take from the hard-working population and spread it around to the sub-par individuals
And it is a crying shame.
“All the while saying, “Hey…you didn’t create that!”
No, you resentful puppy, you. We’re saying that the public infrastructure, everything from clean water to Pell Grants, that made it possible for you to succeed, must be maintain … even! wicked extravagance! improved upon.
What IS your problem?
You’re not still insisting you don’t benefit from any of this stuff? … cause I honestly don’t know what’s to be done with somebody that dim … and the country is in big trouble.
In the mid nineties I worked for a Dr. his wife was a Dr. also but made more money than he did as she was highly specialized, he told me that he basically works to pay their taxes.
Seems to me they paid their fair share.
The wheels have fallen off the gravy train and it is time to rethink how we do things in this Country. Time to gut government services it is sink or swim time. We have got to get by with less, that is the bottom line.
Why is it the Left has no problem taking these action when it comes to the fuel that runs this Country but are completely blind/ignorant to the state of our economy?
Libby that “stuff” was made possible by those who took a risk and built businesses, created jobs, and generated WEALTH. People created businesses long before the government got involved to build roads or issue pell grants. Wealth generators came first.
ALL of the MONEY government has comes from the efforts of the people and the wealthy pay a big chunk. The people have jobs (and can pay taxes) only because of the wealth builders. Pell grants, roads and bridges, colleges, hospitals, teachers salaries, social programs are ALL possible because of those who risk to grow a business and generate wealth.
KILLING that golden goose with onerous taxation and regulation is just DUMB…it reaches the level of the moronic if done in a bad economy.
What is wrong with you on the left that you cannot get this very simple fact?
The wealthy pay higher rates on salaries (if they earn a salary), they pay taxes on dividend and interest income (money that was ttaxed as salary first in some cases), they pay higher property taxes, they pay fat luxery taxes and sales taxes on expensive items, they donate to charities, they build hospitals and colleges, they invest in new companies, and they create millions of jobs giving opportunities of self-support to others.
It is just plain nuts to say they are not “giving back enough” or not contributing their “fair share”.
“Now, we will extract 52% of the income of one of these and 0-4% from the other in federal, state, and local taxes.”
First, where did you get the number 52%?
Second, you’re missing the obvious. The average doctor will still have a lot more money after taxes then the average blue-collar worker after taxes, period. So for you to say that a progressive income tax system leaves people with “no incentive” to work hard is mindless.
Libby, pell Grants, public infrastucture and etc come from the people who did succeed, in the way of taxes.
Government initself does not generate money as you know,the money they use comes from people who work,
most made it on their own in terms of hard work, talk to the small business owner on Main Street, I would be curious to know how much government help they got.
My guess would be none.
“Why is it easier to believe that 150.000.000 Americans are being lazy rather than 400 Americans are being greedy?”
There would be plenty for everybody if so much of our hard work and prosperity had not been funneled up to the top.
Rex, let’s start over because there is something wrong with your basic premise.
It’s not that anyone thinks 150M are lazy or that 400 ultra-rich are necessarily greedy and achieved their wealth by bilking others or being little dictators.
What we have here in America is an opportunity for either outcome and many more kinds outcomes, from horrible to wonderful, and then everything in between.
This is about the choices people make and you can’t legislate that and taxes won’t fix it.
Rex, lets say a girl drops out of high school and gets pregnant without being married. Statistically her and her child have a below average change of being financially secure in their life times. If, however she completes high school and eventually marries and has child with reasonable man willing to support his family, then they have an above average change of being financially secure.
This is just two situations among millions possible combinations. Good choices=better success rates, bad choices= lower success rates.
Most of life is what you make of it, no kidding! Those who take the easy path generally don’t get good results. Those who apply themselves and make smart choices generally do quite well. But, in America the only guarantee we have is that we have the opportunity to make our own choices. The path you take is mostly up to you.
Okay, we’re just speaking about what would probably happen if the people make good life choices, there are exceptions, but citing those exceptions are pointless.
Stop focusing on the 1% of the ultra-rich, because unless you plan on a revolution and stealing their assets all you are going to get is envy and hatred. Better to focus on where it counts… yourself….and what you can do to improve your life. Don’t worry about them, it won’t solve your problems.
Success just isn’t that hard in America. If you make a modest effort you will likely do fine. But, you can’t rely on somebody else to do it for you and you won’t get anywhere trying to take it away from those you think have too much.
Rex…life is like a lottery, but you can’t improve your odds of winning with good choices, hard work and a little risk taking.
“Libby that “stuff” was made possible by those who took a risk and built businesses, created jobs, and generated WEALTH. People created businesses long before the government got involved to build roads or issue pell grants. Wealth generators came first.”
No, they evolved together. No miller gets his grain to market unless the community subscribes to maintain the road. What we’re faced with now is millers who seem to have forgotten this, the road having been in place for some time, and the millers being just a tad dim.
Roads degenerate, and must be re-paved. Pony up, Sister.
Of course. We are not a nation of debt slavery, we just made poor decisions and failed at being a millionaire. That mentality shows how out of touch old people are with today’s economic barriers. Unfortunately it is more like this; Born poor = Die poor, Born rich = Die rich, Born middle class, chances are your job and house got taken in the housing scandal and you will die poor too. Upward Mobility in the USA does not exist, no matter how hard you work your money becomes more and more worthless. People who do good usually have the support and guidance in order to succeed, unfortunately most of us were left to figure it out on our own. Where you begin in life is a direct result of where you will end up and the youth in the USA are struggling to recover from being abused and abandoned by the baby boomer generation. Sure this country was great, unfortunately while people like you were reaping the benefits the greedy were screwing over its future.
Libby: “No, they evolved together.”
Right…my husband and I sat on our butts and watched as our company “evolve”.
Government collects and then spends some of the profits generated by business…they take it from the business, from the business owner, and from his employees. TALK ABOUT GREED!!!!!!!!!
“No miller gets his grain to market unless the community subscribes to maintain the road.”
Yes he did Libby. The wheels of his horse drawn wagon made ruts in the dirt and that was the road in the beginning. The wealth generated by the miller and his entrepreneurial neighbors made improved roads possible. Wealth built upon wealth…growth in the economy…made extensive paved roads possible.
“What we’re faced with now is millers who seem to have forgotten this, the road having been in place for some time, and the millers being just a tad dim. Roads degenerate, and must be re-paved. Pony up, Sister.”
Business has done what has been asked and then some. We have already “ponied up”. There is plenty of money for road building and maintenance. There is plenty of money for the things that government is actually charged with doing. Government insists on doing more than it is charged to do and worse, it is not a good money manager.,
Government has made promises to government employees, seniors, and the poor that it cannot possibly keep. Government has encouraged people with the capability to work and contribute to collect welfare instead. Government has failed at adequately educating and preparing students to be contributing adults. Government has generated massive levels of debt. And in the face of all that spending our roads and bridges have NOT been maintained…your argument is crap!
SPENDING IS THE PROBLEM…WASTE IN THE BUREAUCRATIC SYSTEM IS THE PROBLEM.
You and the party you support are too dim, Marxist, to get that.
Chris, I hope the average Dr. makes more money than the average blue collar worker, but then it depends on what kind of blue collar, an electrician, plumber, welder all can make lots of money if they are good at their trades.
Dr.s today though do not make the money they used to make, yes a very comfortable life but they earned it.
I would wager the average politician makes more and we pay their salaries, and health care.
Consider this newspaper story (paraphrased) from the Baltimore area that describes how private businesses are returning to some inner parts of cities to set up business. The article is encouraging. Real estate is plentiful and prices are low. Many who work downtown also live there. Thats the good news. In addition to the upbeat nature of the story of small private sector companies trying to make it big downtown, there was an educational statistic that was shocking: actual it more than supports conservatives views that you need to invest in your self, and not just depend on someone who helped you get there!
The inner harbor of Baltimore has a 20% poverty rate and a 50% high school dropout rate. Uneducated teenagers have few marketable skills. They cant work to learn new skills because
(1) Government wealth transfer payments via welfare make it unprofitable to work
(2) Government (theres that word again!) minimum wage legislation prices them out of the job pool, especially in this tough economic climate.
Further in the article we learn that unemployment and poverty were at least 50% higher than in the surrounding area. but how can that be? Both areas have the infrastructure build by someone else, and the educational benefits from the same someone else, who according to Obama recent statements helped these identical regional people achieve who they became. The irony here is jobs could be plentiful and high paying. Of course, this will require skilled workers. However, companies cannot survive on computer programmers and engineers alone. They need a diverse work force. One of the Private companies has started a mentoring program for at-risk Baltimore high school students. None of their students have dropped out. Where government education and public policy programs fail, private enterprise succeeds. Time will tell if these inner city businesses will make it, but it will be at the risk of Private money and individual effort. However, once these companies become successful, politicians will tax the daylights out of them. And its those policies that end up killing the goose that lays the golden egg. Where government has failed once more, it will be though the success of private investors individual effort that will have to do it, risking their money, not just government throwing tax dollars at it gleaned from working tax payers. Yes we all need direction early on and some will seek it out, then make it work though their own initiative, while others wait for it to come to them, so in opposition to Obamas resent its not your fault lecture, he needs to rethink his divisive remarks.
Rex one thing is for sure…the more government confiscates through taxes, fees, and regulatory costs, the less chance there is for middle income and the poor to have a job and the greater chance that they will become wards of the state. That is a recipe for building a narrow privileged class.
Wealthy people do not hold their wealth in vaults in the basement. They invest the bulk of it to enterprise that generates more wealth and that is how business and the economy grow. A larger economy generates more opportunity for individuals and it generates more tax revenue. Starting a small business from nothing is more likely to succeed IF most people are working and have extra money to spend.
It’s unfortunate that you have the attitude you have, Rex. America has countless rags to riches stories but more importantly we have countless numbers of people who have made even meager wealth grow. If your chances are less today it is because of government largess and not the fact that there are wealthy people in the world. Government takes the money and spends like a kid spends money on candy…once eaten the goodie is gone and the kid has his hand out for more. Wealthy people take their money and buy seed, They spend to put it in the ground and help it grow and when taken to market they have created profit that is again invested to create other opportunities.
If you want to see greater opportunity for young people you need to support private investment in the private sector where wealth is built. Support for more government spending is killing any possibility for future generations.
http://www.investinganswers.com/personal-finance/rich-famous/5-super-rich-americans-who-started-out-super-poor-3761
This man started with nothing. He worked to get himself an education and eventually built Starbucks into what it is today making himself very rich in the process but also creating opportunities for a lot of others to open a franchise and make a good living for themselves while offering managerial jobs and entry level jobs for more Americans. Not all of us will become billionaires or even millionaires but most of us can earn a comfortable living and create a nice nest egg for retirement if we support freedom and champion the entrepreneurial spirit that drives people like Schultz to excel.
Upward mobility got a huge kick in the butt mostly because of bad political decisions and regulators that looked the other way when a few idiots went piggy in the securities market. Government failed first by creating bad law and second by failing in oversight.
But America CAN become a vibrant nation again IF we get government out of the way. Right now the collectivists in leadership, who believe all wealth belongs to the state and have no appreciation for individual effort and no understanding of wealth creation, are expanding government and our debt at alarming rates. They must be stopped.
Then we must support and press Congress to do the difficult work of cutting back spending, paying off debt, and reforming programs to work on free market principles. Ending expensive unsustainable programs will be difficult but it has to be done. Republicans have a plan to make the transition less painful and still provide a safety net for the truly needy while giving less to wealthy seniors who invested in the programs but can afford to pay more out of pocket for their healthcare and retirement.
It really annoys me that young people don’t have a sense of their own power to create a better life for themselves. It bothers me that young people are not given the skills and the confidence to act on the opportunities that freedom affords them. It bothers me that young people see themselves as helpless and dependent on government for a meager handout. It bothers me that you are taught that settling for less is noble because it means government can create fairness. It bothers me that we teach the young they must settle for less because the wealthy are greedy, keep their wealth for themselves and don’t give anything back…THAT IS A LIE! It is the BIG LIE that controlling Marxists tell to sell the collectivist model.
“the youth in the USA are struggling to recover from being abused and abandoned by the baby boomer generation”
The boomer generation is divided. There are a lot of us in the boomer generation that have been fighting the Marxist big government spoilers of the American way types for decades. We are on your side. We want opportunity for wealth building for you. Most of us either have learned the lesson of wealth building by experience or worked for someone who did. Marxists in the Boomer generation are more likely to work for the government or in unions and they do not understand how wealth is generated nor do they appreciate freedom and individual effort since they have become part of a collective. They have no respect for money that any American makes or saves except to the degree that they can take it through taxation.
Rex you seem like a smart guy. I will bet that you don’t really care that much whether you become a millionaire but you would like an opportunity to make a comfortable, secure living and do some of the things you enjoy. That opportunity will be available to you IF we can turn the wealth of the country loose…set it free….to generate opportunity in the form of good jobs. That will be available to you IF we can put government back into its place as servant of the people.
It is freedom and the spirit of the American people working within that context that creates abundance and wealth…not just for some but for anyone who is willing to take a job and make decisions to improve his lot.
Sorry to be so long winded but I am passionate about this BECAUSE we are talking about my children’s and my grand children’s futures…because we are talking about the survival of this great land that has made it possible for people to improve their lives. I want your future to be bright…and I AM a boomer.
“Wealthy people do not hold their wealth in vaults in the basement.”
No, they hold it in Cayman Islands accounts, or invest it in companies that outsource.
“They invest the bulk of it to enterprise that generates more wealth and that is how business and the economy grow.”
I don’t know if the “bulk” of Mitt Romney’s fortune is invested in America, but I’m sure a large part of it is. However, large parts of it are also invested in other countries. He is running for president of the United States in a period of economic turmoil. His foreign investments are at the least irresponsible and callous, and at worst un-American.
We need laws that will penalize the outsourcing of American jobs and reward hiring in America. This will create more jobs at home. How can anyone be against this?
Chris: “No, they hold it in Cayman Islands accounts, or invest it in companies that outsource.”
Outsourcing is a function of bad policies in American government and greedy union bosses that negotiate unsustainable benefits for workers…both make doing business in America and competing in the world impossible!
Money placed in the Caymnans is still stimulative to business. Foreign countries buy American goods too…at least they would if anyone in our present government had been interested in making more trade agreements.
“However, large parts of it are also invested in other countries.”
You realize this is HIS money? It is not up to you or the government to decide how to best use that money!
If Americans want more American dollars to be invested here we better find a way to make investing here attractive! Having the president of the United States bad mouth and dismiss the relevance of business and threatening to tax every aspect of business and make energy costly is not the way to attract business.
” He is running for president of the United States in a period of economic turmoil. His foreign investments are at the least irresponsible and callous, and at worst un-American.”
You can actually attempt to place blame on Romney’s personal business investments (of which you have zero actual knowledge) after three years of the worst non-recovery recovery since the great depression with debt mounting as it never has before because of the spending and lousy policies of this president and the democrats that ran Congress?
Grasping at straws and attempting to change the subject away from the failures of Obama will not work.
“We need laws that will penalize the outsourcing of American jobs and reward hiring in America.”
Put in the rewards…the incentives…and you won’t need the penalties! DUH!!!
“Right…my husband and I sat on our butts and watched as our company ‘evolve’.”
Tina, yer just being willfully obtuse. First, as I recall, your business is a creation of government regulation, that is, the government has created the market for your product.
Second, without a community that maintains yer roads free of brigands, yer post office and the health of yer employees, you got nothing, and ain’t gonna get nothing, neither.
Chris, perhaps I missed it, but did not see where you thought Romney while in Bain Capitol saved or started many companies which of course employed thousands.
Caymen Islands are legal you know. Pelosi, and others like her also have their money in other countries, anyone with lots of money would do that, the tax structure is unbearable.
Those who make our laws should be held to a higher or at least the same standard as the president. Especially since they have personally benefited from these laws.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57475567-503544/few-in-congress-have-released-tax-returns-report-shows/
Few in Congress have released tax returns, report shows:
Over the course of three months, McClatchy Newspapers asked all 535 members of Congress to release their most recent tax returns, and just 17 members complied with the request. Nineteen congressmen refused while most never responded.
Like Romney, many members of Congress are far wealthier than the average American. And like the president of the United States, those congressmen stand to benefit from the tax policies they shape. Currently, the law only requires members of Congress to report their wealth and liabilities in broad ranges.
Among those who refused to turn over their returns to McClatchy were Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi — both of whom have sharply criticized Romney for failing to be more transparent.
At least one member of Congress thinks Romney should legally be required to disclose more — Democratic Rep. Sandy Levin of Michigan this week said he will introduce legislation that would require presidential candidates to make public 10 years of tax returns and disclose overseas accounts.
When asked by CBS News on Thursday why Romney should go beyond the legal requirement, Pelosi responded, “If you want to be president of the United States, shouldn’t you have to live up to the standard that is there for your cabinet?”
Asked why the rules should be different for members of Congress, she said, “When I run for president of the United States, you can hold me to that standard.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57323527/congress-trading-stock-on-inside-information/
Congress: Trading stock on inside information?
Washington, D.C. is a town that runs on inside information – but should our elected officials be able to use that information to pad their own pockets? As Steve Kroft reports, members of Congress and their aides have regular access to powerful political intelligence, and many have made well-timed stock market trades in the very industries they regulate. For now, the practice is perfectly legal, but some say it’s time for the law to change.
Most former congressmen and senators manage to leave Washington – if they ever leave Washington – with more money in their pockets than they had when they arrived, and as you are about to see, the biggest challenge is often avoiding temptation.
Peter Schweizer: This is a venture opportunity. This is an opportunity to leverage your position in public service and use that position to enrich yourself, your friends, and your family.
Peter Schweizer is a fellow at the Hoover Institution, a conservative think tank at Stanford University. A year ago he began working on a book about soft corruption in Washington with a team of eight student researchers, who reviewed financial disclosure records. It became a jumping off point for our own story, and we have independently verified the material we’ve used.
Schweizer says he wanted to know why some congressmen and senators managed to accumulate significant wealth beyond their salaries, and proved particularly adept at buying and selling stocks.
Schweizer: There are all sorts of forms of honest grafts that congressmen engage in that allow them to become very, very wealthy. So it’s not illegal, but I think it’s highly unethical, I think it’s highly offensive, and wrong.
Steve Kroft: What do you mean honest graft?
Schweizer: For example insider trading on the stock market. If you are a member of Congress, those laws are deemed not to apply.
(Rest of article in link.)
Libby: “Tina, yer just being willfully obtuse.”
No, I’m remembering the five long years of racking up debt while we designed boards and did all of the work necessary to finally bring a product to fruition and the ten more it took to pay off the debt befiore we made much profit. I’m also remembering the many times cash flow problems meant everyione except us got paid. There’s a lot more but it has nothing to do withy being obtuse.
“…your business is a creation of government regulation, that is, the government has created the market for your product.”
No! The product was created and government entities found they had a use for it and chose to purchase it. The product can be used for many purposes.
“Second, without a community that maintains yer roads free of brigands, yer post office and the health of yer employees, you got nothing, and ain’t gonna get nothing, neither.”
Do you adopt that hillbilly accent because you are stupid or because you think stupid people will believe you when you write that way? Or is it an attempt to make you sound like a regular folk when you aren’t?
One way or the other I would be just fine without those community services and so would evceryone else BUT the ability to have those improved roads and servcices are made possible because of the productiveness and industry of the people…not the other way around. I am a contributor as are all of the other people that create wealth and jobs so that taxes can be extracted from all of us.
As I wrote earlier this is a straw man argument in any case becasue no one is against roads and other services. We are against wasteful bureaucracy and entitlement that promises what it cannot deliver. The system MUST be reformed and business MUST be supported. We will only get that if we relieve ourselves of toxic progressive leaders and sympathizers in Congress and replace them with people that manage money better, understand the problems with SS and MCare and have solutions that will work and help to bring the debt down…and lose Barack Obama at the helm.
November can’t come soon enough!
More of OUR tax dollars going overseas to support more off-shore businesses.
New Obama projects to boost Kenya power companies:
Billions of U.S. and international-donor dollars in recent years have been delivered to Kenya and Tanzania to modernize their national electrical systems, but that isnt stopping the Obama administration from tapping the U.S. Treasury for more cash to send to his friends overseas.
Indeed, WND has discovered that a presidential agency is funding new exploratory missions benefiting Kenya state-owned energy companies as well as U.S. corporate behemoths such as GE Energy and Symbion.
Among the project beneficiaries is Geothermal Development Company, or GDC, a self-described 100 percent state-owned company, formed by the government of Kenya as a special purpose vehicle to fast track the development of geothermal resources in the country.
GDC Managing Director Silas Simiyu, speaking at a United Nations University dinner outside Nairobi, pointed out in 2009 that geothermal energy is at the core of economic strategy of Prime Minister Raila Odinga. Accompanied by Hiroyuki Hino Odingas economic adviser Simiyu also said geothermal is a winner for Kenyas energy needs and an answer to global warming.
Odinga, a fellow Luo tribesman to President Barack Obamas family, is spearheading Kenyas green energy development, the Financial Times of London said in last months special report Africa & the Green Economy.
Full story here:
http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/new-obama-projects-to-boost-kenya-power-companies/
“Do you adopt that hillbilly accent because you are stupid or because you think stupid people will believe you when you write that way? Or is it an attempt to make you sound like a regular folk when you aren’t.”
Do you resort to personal attacks when you cannot refute the facts?
Remember folks, debate is part of why we exist, but we must discourage any sort of personal attacks. We’re all attached to our political sides, but we still wave the same flag, right? Er, well, most of us wave the same flag… lol
Libby rarely do you ever present information or facts. What you have is a lot of attitude about those who are bringing facts to the table. You turn hillbilly contentious when your party leadership look like complete fools. It’s a silly transparent ploy to change the subject.
I don’t think you are stupid at all. In fact I think you are quite intelligent…which makes that hillbilly act and stubborn streak all the more tiresome when it comes to something as simple (and logical) as government having no money, zero, none, that it doesn’t TAKE from those who produce. It is tiresome that you will not acknowledge that government cannot, or will not, continue to exist without a thriving private sector. We are experiencing a taste of what collectivist thinking produces and still you remain stubbornly loyal to the lie.
Your party no longer respects the source of funding and power for their “collective” ambitions…you certainly do not…and our President contempt for business, particularly small business, is not only disgusting, it is destructive.
Apologies, Jack, It was posed as a question, not a statement made, but iI was cutting it close to the bone.
“Libby rarely do you ever present information or facts.”
Horsepucky. Deny one more time … that without our splendid civic infrastructure (which our illustrious President is hoping we will not allow to deteriorate any further, as he says in this speech) … you got, and will get, nothin’.
In fact, again, probably, if Boenher makes good his threat to let those, what is it? … 30% across the board … federal budget cuts go into effect, you will lose that contract that provides your living.
There’s fiscal conservatism in action … and don’t you moan about that, neither.
Libby you’re funny when you get preachy. You still refuse to respond when I ask you from whence comes the money that dear leader uses so he can look like your infrastructure hero. It’s too bad he has so little respect for those who produce the wealth that he spends with such careless abandon.
I have endured the last nearly three years struggling to keep my doors open and my employees off the unemployment lines because of Obama/Pelosi/Reid policies that failed to work and produced the longest non-recovery recovery ever. this non-recovery affected almost all of the states and cities across our once great land. The unemployment rate, the real unemployment rate that hovers in the area of 20+%, cannot be denied or dismissed as irrelevant. The debt to GDP ratio is dangerously high. Our nation has been downgraded for the first time in our history…these are not things you can be proud of and yet you pretend they don’t exist and attempt to change the subject.
I am an American who believes in the American dream. My product is suitable for any number of purposes and could easily be adapted to sell to customers in the private sector. If that didn’t work I would find something else to do. My living does not depend on the government and it doesn’t depend on the collective. It depends on freedom…freedom to do my thing. Since I do sell my product to municipalities, cities and states, I have a great appreciation for those in the private sector who make government services and infrastructure possible through their tax dollars. I also appreciate how hard it is to produce the wealth to support the business, the employees, the owners and the government.
Wealth building comes first. It is time, Libby, that you admitted that.
We have seen fiscal conservatism in action before. It produced a lot of wealth in the private sector under Bill Clinton after he wised up and stated, “The era of big government is over” and worked with a conservative led Congress to lower taxes and enact significant government reforms. We were smart to dump Hillary care but it was a huge mistake for him to enact that housing bill that set the stage for the housing melt down.
Tina: “Money placed in the Caymnans is still stimulative to business.”
That money is certainly not stimulative to the economy as a whole. Care to argue otherwise?
“You realize this is HIS money? It is not up to you or the government to decide how to best use that money!”
I did not say the government should stop Mitt Romney from putting his money into Cayman Islands accounts instead of investing it in job creation in the U.S. All I have said is that Romney’s personal choice to do so is relevant to his presidential campaign. If he is really as concerned with job creation and helping America as he claims to be, then he should be making better decisions with his own money. He has the power to help America more than he is doing right now.
“You can actually attempt to place blame on Romney’s personal business investments (of which you have zero actual knowledge) after three years of the worst non-recovery recovery since the great depression with debt mounting as it never has before because of the spending and lousy policies of this president and the democrats that ran Congress?”
This may be one of the funniest things you have ever said, Tina. More proof that all your talk of “personal responsibility” is just talk. It goes right out the window whenever you want to blame Democrats for something. Now you are blaming Obama for Mitt Romney’s personal choice to put his money into Cayman Islands accounts? H-I-LARIOUS.
“Put in the rewards…the incentives…and you won’t need the penalties! DUH!!!”
This is embarrassingly naive. For people as wealthy as Mitt Romney, there will always be more rewards to outsource than to hire American. Even if your wildest dreams came true and all minimum wage laws were repealed tomorrow, and every union was dismantled, Americans would still never agree to be payed as poorly as those in many countries where outsourcing is done. There HAVE to be penalties for outsourcing in order to stop the practice.
Your entire economic philosophy essentially says, “In a crisis, we should just give the most wealthy and powerful people in our country every single damn thing they want, and allow them to get away with anything they want to do, and eventually the common man will get their scraps.” This is a corrupt, idiotic philosophy, and voters will thoroughly reject it come November.
Chris I think it is up to you to tell me why money in the Caymans is not stimulative to the economy as a whole since you suggest that it isn’t.
I can say it stimulates the overall economy because it is invested or used in private sector business which IS the economy.
“He has the power to help America more than he is doing right now.”
How would you, or could you, know to what degree that money “helps” or “doesn’t help” America?
“Now you are blaming Obama for Mitt Romney’s personal choice to put his money into Cayman Islands accounts? H-I-LARIOUS.”
No Jacka**…I am calling you out for being critical of Romney’s personal investment choices when the President that heads your party of choice has WASTED and SQUANDERED a hell of a lot of taxpayer money in three+ years giving special favors to constituents instead of leading the country out of the recession. DUH!
You are too ignorant about this subject to engage further unless you adopt a willingness to actually learn something in the exchange.
Even Romney knows this isn’t about him and his wealth. It is about what works for the American people and by now it is obvious that Obama doesn’t not know what works…nor do you.
The presidents record and intention is clear…BIG GOVERNMENT IS WHAT COUNTS…NOT JOBS, NOT THE ECONOMY, AND NOT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE:
High unemployment and trillions added to our debt with a prospect for future debt growing through another dumb entitlement program and the promise of higher taxes for everyone in the future.
ZERO attempt to reform existing unsustainable entitlement programs.
A sustained non-recovery recovery program of targeted wasteful spending and added bureaucracy.
Exploding debt.
A lowered credit rating for the US for the first time in history
See more in the chart at this handy site:
http://rpc.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=PolicyPapers&ContentRecord_id=836da098-74c1-430f-ad00-e8c377c1751e&ContentType_id=48a8eee4-33df-4bce-b6bd-710c426ab3e1&d77c912a-2c22-4843-a17b-96c2f091d607&Group_id=173c191d-eb25-4dc2-91aa-8240e24e28db&MonthDisplay=1&YearDisplay=2012
Even democrat strategists are telling Obama to quit defending his record:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2012/0612/Democratic-strategists-tell-Obama-to-stop-defending-his-economic-record
This was in response to Obama’s “the private sector is doing fine” gaffe.
Americans can’t pay their share of the grocery bill unless they can get back to work. We need jobs and a thriving economy not more government bureaucracy and spread the wealth policies.
Tina: “Chris I think it is up to you to tell me why money in the Caymans is not stimulative to the economy as a whole since you suggest that it isn’t.”
Bahahahahaha!
No, Tina. You originally said that Caymans Islands accounts are stimulative. You need to back that up.
I have literally never heard anyone argue that Caymans Islands accounts stimulate the economy. That argument seems to defy all common sense. But you made it, so please, explain it. Tell us all how wonderful it is for our economy to have trillions of untaxable dollars just sitting in a foreign country at a time when most of us are just trying to get by and can’t save anything. Get Romney to say that offshore accounts stimulate the economy on national TV. See if you can get the average voter to believe such a thing.
“I can say it stimulates the overall economy because it is invested or used in private sector business which IS the economy.”
How is it invested in the American private sector when it’s in an offshore account? That makes no sense!
“No Jacka**…”
Yes, that is exactly what you did. You said, “You can actually attempt to place blame on Romney’s personal business investments (of which you have zero actual knowledge) after three years of the worst non-recovery recovery since the great depression with debt mounting as it never has before because of the spending and lousy policies of this president and the democrats that ran Congress?”
You were clearly blaming Obama and the democrats in Congress for Mitt’s personal choice to put his money into offshore accounts. There is no sense in you denying this now. It’s there for everyone to see.
“High unemployment and trillions added to our debt with a prospect for future debt growing through another dumb entitlement program and the promise of higher taxes for everyone in the future.”
That “dumb entitlement program” will actually REDUCE the deficit, according to the CBO.
Repealing the PPACA, which you and your party support, will add $109 billion to the deficit.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/07/deficit_will_decrease_under_ob.html
“ZERO attempt to reform existing unsustainable entitlement programs.”
So egregiously false, I can’t believe you have the nerve to say it. The PPACA includes measures to cut wasteful spending in Medicare. You know this, because you have falsely decried these measures as “rationing” and “death panels,” despite the facts that 1) you and your party have been advocating cuts to Medicare longer than I’ve been alive, 2) every major fact-checking and journalistic organization in the country have said that these claims are false, and 3) it’s completely bonkers.
You cannot claim that Obama is cutting Medicare so badly that it’s going to kill Granny out of one side of your mouth, and then be all, “Where’s the cuts?” out of the other side. I am not that freaking stupid, Tina, and neither are you.
“A sustained non-recovery recovery program of targeted wasteful spending and added bureaucracy.”
The stimulus worked, according to the CBO and the vast majority of economists. Without it, there would be no recovery of any kind. See any of the following:
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/42715
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/did-the-stimulus-work-a-review-of-the-nine-best-studies-on-the-subject/2011/08/16/gIQAThbibJ_blog.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/how-do-you-sell-the-stimulus-amid-continued-economic-suffering/2012/03/12/gIQA3wva7R_blog.html
http://prospect.org/article/hate-it-or-love-it-stimulus-worked
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-31/opinion/bernstein.obama.recovery_1_job-growth-unemployment-rate-gdp-growth?_s=PM:OPINION
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2012/06/20/why-the-economic-stimulus-worked
http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/the-recovery-act-worked-in-a-few-easy-charts/
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/02/the-stimulus-absolutely-positively-worked-no-doubt-about-it-probably/253270/
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/06/07/12104923-case-closed-the-stimulus-worked?chromedomain=leanforward&lite
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_11/the_stimulus_worked_redux033711.php
“Exploding debt.
A lowered credit rating for the US for the first time in history”
These problems were simmering long before Obama took office. He inherited a recession, as you know.
“This was in response to Obama’s “the private sector is doing fine” gaffe.”
It wasn’t a gaffe. You are, as usual, taking the president out of context. He was saying that the private sector is doing fine in comparison to the public sector, which has experienced record layoffs.
Here’s the context:
“The truth of the matter is that, as I said we’ve created 4.3 million jobs over the last two — 27 months; over 800,000 just this year alone. The private sector is doing fine.
“Where we’re seeing weaknesses in our economy have to do with state and local government, oftentimes cuts initiated by, you know, governors or mayors who are not getting the kind of help that they have in the past from the federal government and who don’t have the same kind of flexibility as the federal government in dealing with fewer revenues coming in.
“And so, you know, if — if Republicans want to be helpful, if they really want to move forward and put people back to work, what they should be thinking about is how do we help state and local governments and how do we help the construction industry.
“Because the recipes that they’re promoting are basically the kinds of policies that would add weakness to — to the economy, would result in further layoffs, would not provide relief in the housing market, and would result, I think most economists estimate, in lower growth and fewer jobs, not more.”
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/jun/08/context-private-sector-doing-fine/
Your main arguments against this president are based on discredited lies, Tina. They have no effect out here in the real world that lies just outside the right-wing echo chamber.